Apple Testifies on Mobile Privacy, Location Cache Encryption Coming to iOS

[gnasher729]

Show me how Apple has violated my privacy. Please, enlighten me. Having towers mapped to a file does not violate my privacy in any way. If you can show me Apple having this data, specifically relating to me, being sent to them and used, I'm all ears.

There are two things happening.

Case 1: You are with your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch in some location where GPS is not working, or GPS isn't working yet, and you want to know your location. What happens is that your device will check what phone towers are nearby and their signal strength, and what WiFi devices are nearby and their signal strength. It then checks its database (the one that is everyone getting so excited about) to see if it knows where these devices are, and if it knows their location it calculates your location as best as it can. If it doesn't know their location then it sends the IDs of the phone towers and WiFi devices to Apple, Apple returns the locations of these devices and probably some others near to you, your iDevice caches them and does the same calculation. The interesting thing that the idiots don't get is that the more data is in the cache file, the more rare will your iDevice ask Apple. And every time your iDevice asks Apple, it tells Apple your rough location which Apple promises not to store (and they have no reason and no excuse to store it); if the information comes from the cache file then Apple doesn't know anything.

Case 2: You have an iDevice with GPS and GPS is turned on. In order to help customers finding their locations, Apple needs to know where cell towers and WiFi devices are. Especially with WiFi devices that could move around in the country this is important. So when your iDevice is turned on, it checks where WiFi devices and cell towers are, and sends that information to Apple. Apple will store the location of WiFi devices and cell towers, in order to help customers find where they are. Apple promises not to remember that this information comes from your phone. It doesn't record the location of your phone. If you drive past my home with an iPhone with GPS turned on, the iPhone will tell Apple where my WiFi router is, so when someone else drives past my home with an iDevice without GPS, Apple can tell them where they are. Google does exactly the same thing. Skyhook was the company that came up with the idea, but they sent cars driving through the country to record where WiFi devices are; Apple and Google just use a much cheaper method to collect the same data. Which is not information about you, but about WiFi routers everywhere, whether the owner owns a phone or not.

If you look at Apple's usage terms, it says that this information is collected, and that it is shared with other companies - the companies are Google and Skyhook. Advertisers don't get this information, they only get your location when you explicitly allow it.

 

[BaldiMac]

There are two things happening.

Case 1: You are with your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch in some location where GPS is not working, or GPS isn't working yet, and you want to know your location. What happens is that your device will check what phone towers are nearby and their signal strength, and what WiFi devices are nearby and their signal strength. It then checks its database (the one that is everyone getting so excited about) to see if it knows where these devices are, and if it knows their location it calculates your location as best as it can. If it doesn't know their location then it sends the IDs of the phone towers and WiFi devices to Apple, Apple returns the locations of these devices and probably some others near to you, your iDevice caches them and does the same calculation. The interesting thing that the idiots don't get is that the more data is in the cache file, the more rare will your iDevice ask Apple. And every time your iDevice asks Apple, it tells Apple your rough location which Apple promises not to store (and they have no reason and no excuse to store it); if the information comes from the cache file then Apple doesn't know anything.

Case 2: You have an iDevice with GPS and GPS is turned on. In order to help customers finding their locations, Apple needs to know where cell towers and WiFi devices are. Especially with WiFi devices that could move around in the country this is important. So when your iDevice is turned on, it checks where WiFi devices and cell towers are, and sends that information to Apple. Apple will store the location of WiFi devices and cell towers, in order to help customers find where they are. Apple promises not to remember that this information comes from your phone. It doesn't record the location of your phone. If you drive past my home with an iPhone with GPS turned on, the iPhone will tell Apple where my WiFi router is, so when someone else drives past my home with an iDevice without GPS, Apple can tell them where they are. Google does exactly the same thing. Skyhook was the company that came up with the idea, but they sent cars driving through the country to record where WiFi devices are; Apple and Google just use a much cheaper method to collect the same data. Which is not information about you, but about WiFi routers everywhere, whether the owner owns a phone or not.

If you look at Apple's usage terms, it says that this information is collected, and that it is shared with other companies - the companies are Google and Skyhook. Advertisers don't get this information, they only get your location when you explicitly allow it.

Case 3: Location Services is off. Prior to the 4.3.3 update all of the information in case 1 and 2 was still collected. After 4.3.3 it is no longer collected and the log is deleted when location services is turned off.

In none of these cases was Apple tracking your location or violating your privacy. They just logged information on your iPhone that could be used by third parties to determine your past locations if they had physical access to your phone or the computer that you backed it up to. That was the privacy issue. There was no evidence that this issue had ever been abused.

 

[Popeye206]

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27location_qa.html

"it’s maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location."

"The location data that researchers are seeing on the iPhone is not the past or present location of the iPhone, but rather the locations of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers surrounding the iPhone’s location"

Well... it has not been recording mine or did it store it. I use Wifi at home. This is a year's worth of data. No record of my personal WiFi spot. Only the cell tower.

The Apple statement is confusing.... I'll give you that because it appears they are mixing two different functions.

 

[dethmaShine]

as the saying goes, if you don't have nothing good to say, don't say anything (or to that effect).

Well, you said a good saying, saying that the saying says that if you don't have nothing good to say, don't say anything (or to that effect).

 

[JAT]

there are millions of people who suddenly find themselves being scrutinized by the government (law enforcement or otherwise.) One cannot wait until the information has been used against them -

Once stored, it becomes basically a warrantless search just waiting to be accessed anytime law enforcement wants.

You all understand that this file is on your phone. And cannot be accessed without a legal search. And furthermore, as I keep posting, this data can be received IN REAL TIME by the govt (after getting a legal warrant) by getting similar data from AT&T/VZW directly. And that is what they would do instead of hacking a log file.

What is with these petty arguments? In the example I used, an employee takes his current work iPhone with him to interview for a job at another company. Completely appropriate. He is supposed to carry his work iPhone with him everywhere. That's why it was issued. He's not doing anything wrong.

So, what's the fear? Are these mob employers we are worried about? I would leave any employer so paranoid as to attempt to track my whereabouts. Also, see my first comment in this post.

 

[BaldiMac]

So, what's the fear? Are these mob employers we are worried about? I would leave any employer so paranoid as to attempt to track my whereabouts. Also, see my first comment in this post.

I never said anything about fear. It was a privacy issue. The issue has been mitigated by Apple's response. We have more control over the information kept on our iPhones. That's a good thing.

 

[idunn]

PLAN on iPhone 1984

You should be concerned about more than just being tracked.

The federal government is just now rolling out a system, PLAN, in conjunction with all major cell providers, that will preempt your cell phone's communication capabilities. With news of this emerging in the media, this is advertised as a helpful emergency broadcast system, but goes well beyond that. One will have the option to elect to receive or not automatic messages concerning natural emergencies, or Amber alerts, BUT must receive and be preempted by presidential addresses.

The circuitry to enable this already exists in many modern cell phones, including Apple's current iPhone.

One should be cognizant that had such a system existed in Egypt that not only could the regime of Mr. Mubarak have more easily tracked down dissidents, but instead of crudely having terminated internet and cell service for several days, have more skillfully elected to automatically preempt all civilian cell communication, instead allowing only their own propaganda to get through.

In other words, from now on, ultimate control of your cell phone, and all communication through it . . . does not rest with you.

 

[teloche]

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27location_qa.html

"it’s maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location."

"The location data that researchers are seeing on the iPhone is not the past or present location of the iPhone, but rather the locations of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers surrounding the iPhone’s location"

why does location services dial home from desktops then, hourly, try out little snitch and see for yourself,

When privacy is a concern i think its a good idea Apple gets audited and a full scan investigation on their servers as to what THEY COLLECTED; why not, you cant just say nothing illegal took place on their part while it was a HIDDEN BUG on your phone to eves drop as well as collect anything from your device.

Again Appl fanboys trying to make Apple look as if they have the right to sell Spy phones

 

[BaldiMac]

why does location services dial home from desktops then, hourly, try out little snitch and see for yourself genius,

Why? That's easy.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4239

It includes information on how to disable.

 

[42streetsdown]

Like I said before... want my file? I'll give it to you. Tell me where I live and send you a $50 gift certificate for dinner. Just mail me a self addressed return envelope and I'll send you the gift card.

This is so freak'n ridiculous.

lol i kinda want to try this despite that it would be next to impossible with just the file.

 

[kdarling]

You are confusing "privacy concerns" with "forensic evidence".

Neither one, actually. I was simply pointing out that it's not at all necessary to know someone's exact location. Sometimes just a town, county or even country will do.

If I want to track someone, I can steal their phone and try to get their iPhone file to see about where they've gone, or I can put a $50 transponder on someones car and know EXACTLY where they've been. LOL!

Putting a transponder on a car now, does not help know where they've been for the past year.

Exact location data is taken anonymously by Apple and Google for traffic data. Google says they take it about every 20 mins and Apple says about once every several hours.

Apple says it's sent every 12 hours over WiFi, and is meant to help them figure out the best way to do traffic info in the future. Clearly 12 hours is too old for realtime usage, and Apple has to be planning to do it more often. Which is okay if it's opt-in as it no doubt will be.

Wrong... it's generated on the phone as a local cache of your cell towers. The phone is all that uses it so it can anticipate towers for switching.

The location database in question is not generated by the phone.

It's a cache of information received from Apple in response to the device asking for help finding its location via non-GPS means.

 

[teloche]

Why? That's easy.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4239

It includes information on how to disable.

i disabled it yet it still seeks other ports to dial out, try it with little snitch and tell me

 

[permol]

if you can run 4.2, then you can run 4.3. So I don't get your point.
If you added a bit more knowledge to your background, you would gain in credibility: 4.3 is not for the iPhone 3G (only S or 4)

They have explained it why it exists. It was there so that your iPhone could anticipate the next tower location by knowing where they are.

Apple has only lied in your eyes because you expected a different answer. I'm sure you think they're up to something diabolical evil plan.

I'm not in fear of a diabolic plan - I just accumulated the few facts it takes to make sure that this time Apple executives replaced their "no information strategy" with an outright lie.

 

[ciTiger]

Some important things were talked in the hearing... Specially about the 25 Year old US laws which give the government access to any online information about any user WITHOUT needing a warrant... There were no emails or SMS back then... Kudos to the Google guy for mentioning it!

 

[BaldiMac]

i disabled it yet it still seeks other ports to dial out, try it with little snitch and tell me

Little Snitch is a fantastic tool, but it tells you that a connection was made not what data was sent. Based on your claim, my assumption would be that OS X has the same location services bug as iOS had. I'd want it investigated further and fixed if necessary. No reason to jump to conclusions and throw out accusations.

 

[caspersoong]

IMO Apple actually cares for privacy unlike many companies in the world who either do not think about it or deliberately go against it, like Google.