Apple Testing Multiple Foldable iPhone Prototypes, But Has Concerns Over Display Technology and Market

[The Game 161]

I have seen so many users just sell them in second hand stores after getting tired of them. That's usually what happens when the excitement wears off and people go back to something simpler and more practical to use.

Look how many used are listed for sale:

https://uk.webuy.com/boxsearch?stext=galaxy%20fold

Then click on each one and see how many stores have these used devices. It's crazy. This is a flop. People buy them and then get rid of them. Never saw a new device disposed so quickly. It takes much longer for so many new iPhones to appear on second hand market.

Samsung sold about 3 million foldables in 2020. The demand is even higher for this years models due to the low price of the flip for one.

so no it’s not a flop and it’s certainly developing year on year and getting more and more popular as more and more are simply bored of slab phones.

using sites like that is a poor example. Many phones go up for re-sale months after release. Doesn’t matter what the brand.

 

[metapunk2077fail]

Samsung sold about 3 million foldables in 2020. The demand is even higher for this years models due to the low price of the flip for one.

so no it’s not a flop

If people are dumping them massively on second hand markets when the phone is still new then it is a flop. Samsung's sales figures can't include the dumping.

I have never seen dumping like this of ANY product and I have been a close watcher for three decades.

 

[The Game 161]

If people are dumping them massively on second hand markets when the phone is still new then it is a flop. Samsung's sales figures can't include the dumping.

As i said thats normal with any phone. Many people do the same with iPhones. Often for re-sale value to get them a profit but it still happens. As i said using phones for sale is a bad example certainly when phones are sold in more than one market.

foldables are becoming more normal and each year as the price decreases more people will buy them.

apple need to bring out a foldable and if they don’t they are missing out. They are depending on apple fans buying the same damn thing each year. Due to the brand it is happening but might not always be the case.

hell we have had the same damn design with the notch since 2017. Apple needs to get with the times as each year they are delaying features which android flagships have had for years. From a tech point of view if you want innovation and the best in tech features apple devices are simply behind the competition. Doesn’t mean the products aren’t great but there are so many areas it needs to improve and catch up on.

 

[sgodsell]

A foldable iPhone will be great, much more screen real estate

Samsung already makes foldable phones so it may only be a few years before Apple releases this

This will be great for people who already carry both their iPhone and their iPad everywhere they go

You will NEVER see a foldable from Apple that will be like Samsung's Galaxy Fold 3. Especially since Apple took the wrong path with their app ecosystem. Its not conducive at all for foldables that would unfold from an iPhone to an iPad. Especially since Apple encourages their app developers to make separate iPhone apps and separate iPad apps. Plus Apple further separated their operating systems, so now there is iOS for iPhones and iPadOS for iPads.

The ONLY foldable that I can see Apple making is a Galaxy Flip type device, which always stays as a smartphone, or in Apples case an iPhone. That type of device I can see Apple making, because its a device that will ONLY run iPhone apps.

Android devices are able to make and support foldables like Samsung's Galaxy Fold 3, because Google and Android took the path where they want their developers to create one app that supports both smartphones and tablets. That is why we are seeing so many foldables in the Android camp today. Plus Android 12L has added even more support for foldable type devices.

 

[sgodsell]

Apple always plays the long game. I'm not surprised they're taking their time. The foldables I've seen so far just don't add anything compelling. They're usually a lot thicker that a standard smartphone and have a shorter life span. I don't see that trade-off as worth it for a slightly larger screen (which in many cases isn't even properly optimized).

Clearly you never saw the Samsung Galaxy Fold 3, especially since that is a smartphone and tablet in one device. Its the first 2 in 1 that is both a smartphone and a tablet in the one physical device. Apple will NEVER be able to make that type of device, because Apples app ecosystem is NOT conducive for a device that would be both an iPhone and a iPad. You will never see an Apple device like that. Especially since Apple took the path to separate their iPhone apps and separate their iPad apps. Apple went even further by separating their iOS, so Apple also has iPadOS for iPads as well.

The only foldable from Apple would be similar to Samsung's Galaxy Flip, or Motorola's Razr. Those foldables stay as a smartphone and only run smartphone apps. Therefore I can see Apple creating a foldable like those devices, so Apples foldable would be running iOS and only run iPhone apps. That is possible, but you will NEVER see a foldable from Apple where it would be a 2 in 1 like the Galaxy Fold 3, or soon to be Pixel Fold type devices. That is both a smartphone and a tablet in the one device (NEVER see iPhone and iPad in the same device).

 

[sgodsell]

Good point. I also think that folded it would be thick enough to thwart on-handed texting. This will irritate many people. Foldable iPads make much more sense.

It makes a lot of sense, but you will NEVER see that type of device from Apple, because Apple has a major app ecosystem problem, as well as an operating system problem. You see Apple has encouraged their developers to create separate iPhone apps, and separate iPad apps. Plus Apple created a further separation when they made iOS for iPhones, and iPadOS for iPads. Android doesn't have any of those problems, because Google wanted their developers to create one app that supports both smartphones and tablets. Plus the same Android runs on both smartphones and tablets. That is why we see 2 in 1 Android smartphones that are both a smartphone and a tablet in the one physical device. Therefore you will NEVER see a similar device from Apple like the Samsung Galaxy Fold 3, soon to be Pixel Fold, or other 2 in 1 devices in the Android camp.

The only foldable from Apple that you might see is like the Galaxy Flip, or Moto Razr, or clam shell type devices, because those types of devices always stay as a smartphone, and only run the smartphone apps. So Apple could make a foldable that only runs iOS and also runs iPhone apps. That we could see from Apple. But mark my words here. You will NEVER see a 2 in 1 device from Apple that would be both an iPhone and a iPad. Not happening.

 

[spinedoc77]

But I'm not arguing from my use case. How many people do you see carrying 2 devices NOW? I see very few. I see a lot of people with phones only. It doesnt matter what you want or what I want, it matters whether there's really demand in the market at large.

So, if the argument for a foldable is "all those people who carry a tablet and a phone will want one", there don't appear to me all that many of them. There ARE niches, of course (I can see students as one of these) but that's not argument to do a product. Look at how many people wanted and still want a device the size of the iPhone 5... Yet Apple barely serves that market with the SE and Mini. There are people who want something even smaller but I doubt you'll ever see it. Not everyone can have a product that they would like.

Something no one has talked about yet, too, is that if a foldable iPhone doesnt expand into a standard tablet size, we now need apps to adjust well to a new sizes or they'll look odd. And given that we have a split with iOS and iPadOS on phones and tablets respectively... what does this foldable phone run? If you're about to say "it shows as iOS when folded but iPadOS when unfolded... that's a software challenge that apple would need to take on and they'd need to figure that the market is big enough for these to be worthwhile.

I actually see people carrying 2 devices quite often, but you're right it's not the norm for the every day person. But I'm not advocating for today, a screen that shrinks down to fit into your pocket is something that is so new it's not ubiquitous yet. I think a much much better question is "how many people do you see NOT carrying around a large screened slab phone?" Because 7 or 8 years ago this wasn't a majority of people, before phablets only a very very few had huge phones like for example Samsung's Mega in 2013 with a 6.3" screen. If you had a Mega in 2013 you were an alien, but in 2021 if you had a 6.3" screen you would be considered inadequate. Sure we have "small" phones here and there, but the majority of consumers have these larger phones we would never have imagined just a few years ago. Clearly the demand for larger screens is there. Are large phone perfect? No, we still whine and moan about notches, camera cutouts, false finger touches, etc., but the majority of consumers happily accept these shortcomings for a larger screen.

So no, I never said the foldable demand was only because of a desire to downsize 2 devices, my premise has always been it's a desire to have a larger screen that still fits into your pocket. I'm always hesitant to say foldable because that shouldn't be the only thing that comes to mind, and another paradigm may well completely change this and foldables might only be a stepping stone, but I still believe some form of screen which can be shrunken down to fit into a pocket WILL become ubiquitous in the near future.

On the challenges of form factor and app compatability I don't disagree. Form factor could be fixed somewhat, maybe the Fold 4 would be wider, or maybe a rollable phone would be able to be partially unrolled, who knows what the market will come up with. I do know that even with letterboxing, video on my Fold 3 is still MUCH better than on my 13 pro max. But again a valid point. As for compatability, well Apple kind of painted themselves into that corner. They keep trying to improve iOS, but it still remains a toy OS as far my personal opinion and for my own use case scenario. Samsung has been a leader in how apps conform to both phone and tablet sizes, first in their UI and apps, and extending this to other apps through powerful tools like Good Lock, and finally with their collaboration with Google to extend this to the OS level. Apple could put forth the same effort, they just choose not to because it's more valuable for them to convince you to buy 2 or 3 devices instead of one.

 

[sgodsell]

A foldable iPhone will be great, much more screen real estate

Samsung already makes foldable phones so it may only be a few years before Apple releases this

This will be great for people who already carry both their iPhone and their iPad everywhere they go

Apple has a major problem with their app ecosystem when it comes to foldable devices, especially if you want to see a 2 in 1 foldable like the Galaxy Z Fold 3. Apple today currently encourages their developers to make separate iPhone apps, and separate iPad apps. Which app version would be installed on Apples foldable device? But Apple even separated their iOS operating system even further, so now there is iOS for iPhones, and iPadOS for iPads. This alone makes it impossible for Apple to create a foldable device that would be an iPhone and a iPad in the one physical device. Android and Google don't have Apples problem, because Google did the opposite of Apple. They encouraged their developers to create one app that supports both smartphones and tablets. Plus there is only one OS for both smartphones and tablets. Not to mention Android 12L is going to include some more specific features that will support foldables.

Mark my words you will NEVER see a foldable from Apple that will support both iPhones and iPads in one physical device. The only foldable device from Apple that you might see, is a flip type foldable. The reason why is because a flip type foldable always stays as a smartphone, and only runs smartphone apps. In Apples case, Apples flip will always stay as an iPhone, and only run iPhone apps.

 

[Tagbert]

Apple has a major problem with their app ecosystem when it comes to foldable devices, especially if you want to see a 2 in 1 foldable like the Galaxy Z Fold 3. Apple today currently encourages their developers to make separate iPhone apps, and separate iPad apps. Which app version would be installed on Apples foldable device? But Apple even separated their iOS operating system even further, so now there is iOS for iPhones, and iPadOS for iPads. This alone makes it impossible for Apple to create a foldable device that would be an iPhone and a iPad in the one physical device. Android and Google don't have Apples problem, because Google did the opposite of Apple. They encouraged their developers to create one app that supports both smartphones and tablets. Plus there is only one OS for both smartphones and tablets. Not to mention Android 12L is going to include some more specific features that will support foldables.

Mark my words you will NEVER see a foldable from Apple that will support both iPhones and iPads in one physical device. The only foldable device from Apple that you might see, is a flip type foldable. The reason why is because a flip type foldable always stays as a smartphone, and only runs smartphone apps. In Apples case, Apples flip will always stay as an iPhone, and only run iPhone apps.

Apple is not encouraging devs to make separate iPad and iPhone apps. Apple provides the tools to build apps that scale to the size of the device. IPad OS is not really a different OS or platform. It is a marketing term for the version of iOS that runs on the iPad. An app written from iPhone is perfectly able to work on an iPad if the developers have chosen to build in support for different screen sizes. Some just don’t bother.

A foldable device would need some extra application framework support to handle the change in display, but that is just typical with different device screen targets. Nothing preventing existing apps from extending support.

 

[sgodsell]

Apple is not encouraging devs to make separate iPad and iPhone apps. Apple provides the tools to build apps that scale to the size of the device. IPad OS is not really a different OS or platform. It is a marketing term for the version of iOS that runs on the iPad. An app written from iPhone is perfectly able to work on an iPad if the developers have chosen to build in support for different screen sizes. Some just don’t bother.

A foldable device would need some extra application framework support to handle the change in display, but that is just typical with different device screen targets. Nothing preventing existing apps from extending support.

BS, Apple most definitely is encouraging their developers to make separate iPhone apps and separate iPad apps, clearly you are not a developer. Apple even boast and brags that they now have over 500,000 iPad apps. iPad apps do NOT work on iPhones because of the huge discrepancy betweeen the small iPhone screens and the much larger iPad screen layouts, and aspect ratios.

Lets use one developer that made separate iPhone apps, and separate iPad apps for example. Like Adobe Lightroom which has both app versions. Now lets pretend that Apple makes a foldable device that is both an iPhone and a iPad mini, which would be similar to Samsung's Galaxy Z Fold 3 foldable device. Now which iOS version do you install on Apples foldable device? Now which app version would you install on this Apple foldable? Would you install the Lightroom iPad app version, or the iPhone app version? Try and remember that there is two separate app versions of the same app. Clearly you can't install both app versions on the one physical device. So if you install the iPhone app version, then that version would work for both the iPhone display, and the iPad display. Developers would still have to modify their app for app continuity when a user folds and unfolds this device. Plus if there is an iPad app version, it couldn't be used on the smaller iPhone display. Not to mention you still have the app continuity problem when a user folds and unfolds this device.

Mark my words you will NEVER see a foldable from Apple that will be both an iPhone and a iPad mini in one physical foldable device. I will bet big money on it, and I can take that all the way to the bank.
Ultimately the 500,000 apps created by Apple developers, and companies would now have to take every piece of code from their iPad apps, and then place that code in their iPhone app code versions. They would still have the app continuity probllem to contend with as well. Google and there Android don't have that app separation problem, because Google from day one encouraged their developers to create one physical app that supports both smartphones and tablets. Now Android and its developers still have app continuity issues when users fold and unfold these foldable devices. But nothing like the impossible problem that Apple created when they went out of their way to get their developers to create separate app versions. Especially when Apple and its developers are facing all the problems with foldables, like the 2 in 1 foldable devices (Galaxy Z Fold 3). If you can't see the major roads block that Apple is facing with foldables, then you need to actually become a developer, or at least talk to some other intelligent developers.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Now which iOS version do you install on Apples foldable device?

FoldOS

Clearly you can't install both app versions on the one physical device.

Well, TODAY no, but “fat binaries” have existed previously, and that was during the pre-App Store days. Now, the App Store handles delivery of the right code to the right device. If that device folds, the App Store could push the appropriate package. Larger package, yes, but the interface you see could certainly be tied to the screen’s current form factor. Bitcode is a powerful intermediary.

There are reasons why Apple might not produce a foldable phone. I don’t think “because Apple can’t handle the screen size changes” is one of them.

 

[sgodsell]

You really are not a developer, are you? Try to think! When a user is in iPhone mode (smaller iPhone type display), and even if you load in and run the iPhone app version. What will happen now when that user unfolds from iPhone mode, into a iPad mode (larger iPad type display)? Will you now run the iPad app version? If so, then how would app continuity work when that user switches between those two modes? If a user types something into the iPad screen, then it has to remember that data that was typed into the iPad app version, but now has to remember and pass that data from the iPad app version over to the iPhone app version, as well as back again. That will never work.

Android is able to do it because it is the same one single app that is running in both smartphone mode, and tablet mode. That is the only way it can be done. So having two apps which are really the same app, will NEVER work with a foldable iPhone/iPad device.

 

[Tagbert]

BS, Apple most definitely is encouraging their developers to make separate iPhone apps and separate iPad apps, clearly you are not a developer. Apple even boast and brags that they now have over 500,000 iPad apps. iPad apps do NOT work on iPhones because of the huge discrepancy betweeen the small iPhone screens and the much larger iPad screen layouts, and aspect ratios.

Lets use one developer that made separate iPhone apps, and separate iPad apps for example. Like Adobe Lightroom which has both app versions. Now lets pretend that Apple makes a foldable device that is both an iPhone and a iPad mini, which would be similar to Samsung's Galaxy Z Fold 3 foldable device. Now which iOS version do you install on Apples foldable device? Now which app version would you install on this Apple foldable? Would you install the Lightroom iPad app version, or the iPhone app version? Try and remember that there is two separate app versions of the same app. Clearly you can't install both app versions on the one physical device. So if you install the iPhone app version, then that version would work for both the iPhone display, and the iPad display. Developers would still have to modify their app for app continuity when a user folds and unfolds this device. Plus if there is an iPad app version, it couldn't be used on the smaller iPhone display. Not to mention you still have the app continuity problem when a user folds and unfolds this device.

Mark my words you will NEVER see a foldable from Apple that will be both an iPhone and a iPad mini in one physical foldable device. I will bet big money on it, and I can take that all the way to the bank.
Ultimately the 500,000 apps created by Apple developers, and companies would now have to take every piece of code from their iPad apps, and then place that code in their iPhone app code versions. They would still have the app continuity probllem to contend with as well. Google and there Android don't have that app separation problem, because Google from day one encouraged their developers to create one physical app that supports both smartphones and tablets. Now Android and its developers still have app continuity issues when users fold and unfold these foldable devices. But nothing like the impossible problem that Apple created when they went out of their way to get their developers to create separate app versions. Especially when Apple and its developers are facing all the problems with foldables, like the 2 in 1 foldable devices (Galaxy Z Fold 3). If you can't see the major roads block that Apple is facing with foldables, then you need to actually become a developer, or at least talk to some other intelligent developers.

Which iOS apps have you developed?

You absolutely can design and code your app to work with the different screen sizes of iPad and iPhone using either UIKit or SwiftUI. For an app on a hypothetical folding phone, flipping the screen would be like handling a screen rotation and you would need to redraw the screen using the current display layout.

 

[SenorWhyMe]

just make it a hinge double display i don’t care for foldable

 

[Tagbert]

just make it a hinge double display i don’t care for foldable

That would still be a foldable

 

[SenorWhyMe]

That would still be a foldable

yes and no , i don’t want a physically foldable display, that will always end up breaking in time

 

[k1121j]

Hello $2500 iPhone!
OK, $2499.

No way not worth it in my book I have a hard enough time shelling out 2800 fir a laptop and at least I get 5-6 years out of those.

 

[spnc]

Just don't expect something out of the movies. We can't even get bug free desktop OS after 40 years of development. AR will have tons of bugs once people look past the excitement.

Imran Chaudhri built the iPhone, iPad, Mac, Watch, TV with countless number of patents. But I don't know, somewhat they're sending out Magic Leap or Theranos vibes. Not sure what to make of it. Genius or recipe for disaster?

Their first product will be launched this year:

https://hu.ma.ne/

"Building the first AI hardware and software platform — coming in 2023."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1582201187016720384

"the smartphone is dead" lol

https://twitter.com/x/status/1597999945902338050

https://twitter.com/x/status/1549414734570541056

"Humane Wants to Rescue Humans from Technology"

https://coolhunting.com/tech/a-first-glimpse-at-what-tech-company-humane-is-developing/

In the film, entitled “Change Everything,” one protagonist stands amidst a throng of figures tethered to their devices—some handheld, others strapped to wrists or covering eyes. The protagonist, however, finds the Humane logo in the real world. Coupling these observations with Humane’s mission to push technology forward by “rethinking, reconsidering and remembering honest human connection in the context of computing,” one can’t help but percolate with excitement over what more will come.