Apple Threatens to Pull FaceTime and iMessage in the UK Over Proposed Surveillance Law Changes

[JippaLippa]

the country is what the people vote for

Yes, I'm aware.
People probably lost interest in freedom, most certantly to trade it in for the promise of security.
But playing the security game is a dangerous gamble...
One could argue that China is very safe for the average citizen, but would you really like to live in a dystopia like that just for the benefit of fewer muggings or shootings?
Not sure...

 

[spazzcat]

Make sense. If there was a situation that threatened the security of the public, they would have the power to investigate the guilty parties.

Historically Apple has shown that they’re unwilling to co-operate with unlocking phones for authorities. Can you blame the government for wanting to side-step them?

Because this would never be abused ...

 

[Duncan-UK]

This is the most illiberal UK government we have ever endured. They break things, they lie, they remove our freedoms.

It is now illegal to protest in the UK now ffs. The majority of the press here enjoy lucrative government advertising contracts so are virtually nothing more than mouthpieces.

Yep its so illegal that the tiresome oil extinction cranks are spoiling every sporting even or national occasion they can shower their orange crap over, whilst Plod brings them cups of tea and checks they are ok.

 

[Smoovejayy]

Make sense. If there was a situation that threatened the security of the public, they would have the power to investigate the guilty parties.

Historically Apple has shown that they’re unwilling to co-operate with unlocking phones for authorities. Can you blame the government for wanting to side-step them?

Downvote to oblivion.

 

[Le0M]

iMessage and FaceTime aren’t that popular in the UK, it’s not much of a factor in opting to buy Apple devices.

But iCloud is used a lot, I guess, and most of its content is e2e encrypted, which means that service will have to be cut off as well.

 

[Duncan-UK]

it depends who you ask and where you ask.
but according to a stat i just found, apple is the most used phone brand in the uK (as of March 2023) with 50% marketshare.

Region
United Kingdom
Survey time period
April 2022 to March 2023
Number of respondents
3,880 respondents
Age group
18-64 years

i agree there was a time where whatsapp was the more dominant chat tool, but from what i can see that share has been dropping each year.

in spain though, i believe Samsung is very dominant there.

just because people have iPhones doesn't mean they use iMessage... WhatsApp is by far the most common service.

 

[chenks]

Yep its so illegal that the tiresome oil extinction cranks are spoiling every sporting even or national occasion they can shower their orange crap over, whilst Plod brings them cups of tea and checks they are ok.

that's the thing, the right to peaceful protest is still very much in place, however protesters often like to exclude the peaceful part and do whatever they choose as part of the protest.

 

[Lostanddamned]

Regardless of quibbling about usage statistics; the fact remains that this bill is functionally a ban on end to end encryption wrapped in some tech-illiterate handwringing about this being about protecting children when it is, at it’s very core, a conservative government lashing out at a sector over whom they have very little power.

Apple, Signal, Facebook, and many others responding with the suggestion that they will remove a presence in the UK is the sort of threat the Tories should take very seriously.

 

[Duncan-UK]

Sadly if labour get in , sir keir starmer QC and millionaire isn’t exactly going to change much

KC now of course, along with his sunshine band of thoroughly barmy front benchers.

 

[chenks]

just because people have iPhones doesn't mean they use iMessage... WhatsApp is by far the most common service.

if you read my posts you'll see i did say that whilst they have the service the stat doesn't show usage.

but your "WhatsApp is by far the most common service" statement is based on your personal experience i would suggest rather than actual statistics?

what we do know is that 50% of phone users in the UK as of March 2023, according to that statistic, have access to iMessage and facetime.

 

[chenks]

Apple, Signal, Facebook, and many others responding with the suggestion that they will remove a presence in the UK is the sort of threat the Tories should take very seriously.

just a suggestion.
i would find it hard to believe they would ever actually follow thru on any suggestion.

although, Signal is such an insignificant app that even if it were to pull out would anyone notice or care?

 

[xxray]

This is terrifying even as an America. For such a big ally to put this into law… huge yikes!

 

[sflagel]

50% doesn’t suport that at all. It’s literally half.

What? Let me recap the discussion:
1. Article states that Apple threatens to pull iMessage and FaceTime.
2. Some people argue that this would not have a big impact, because these two platforms are not so exclusively dominant in UK (or Europe), and that many people already use WhatsApp.
3. If iMessage and FaceTime were to be pulled, people would quickly and easily switch to WhatsApp.

Guy presents stats to argue:
1. Confirms that only 50% even have access to iMessage and FaceTime today.
2. States that WhatsApp used to be dominant, but is losing share (although may still be dominant, he does not clarify this).
3. At 50% iOS marketshare, we know that pretty much all of these 50% also have WhatsApp installed and many use is at least occasionally to communicate with the 50% that don't have iOS or for Group Chats - no one initiates a Group Chat on iMessage.

Hence, Guy's argument supports that iOS users would instantly swap to WhatsApp if iOS and FaceTime were to be pulled. The pain suffered would be minimal.

 

[paulovsouza]

I always thought the UK had better privacy laws than the US. Apple is building its entire reputation on privacy (World Wide), and all my friends in the UK don’t use iMessage like we do in the US anyways, so I believe Apple would follow through with this.

 

[CJM]

Apple will cave eventually. Uk is a huge market they cannot lose.

Eff that, I think I'll move out of the country if this happens. Absolutely disgusting and draconian. Spooks in the UK are truly the people running the show here. Notice how the UK or MoD never comments on matters of security. There's almost no oversight.

 

[chenks]

At 50% iOS marketshare, we know that pretty much all of these 50% also have WhatsApp installed and many use is at least occasionally to communicate with the 50% that don't have iOS or for Group Chats - no one initiates a Group Chat on iMessage.

think you are mixing up different peoples responses.
i posted the stat showing 50% have apple devices, but i made no mention of suggesting they also have whatsapp installed. i said we don't know if they also use whatsapp or not.

 

[robbietop]

The EU and UK: "We're democracies! Now, comply or we will shut down your business!"

I pray Apple turns off FaceTime and iMessage in the UK and shows world governments how little power they actually have.

 

[chenks]

The EU and UK: "We're democracies! Now, comply or we will shut down your business!"

I pray Apple turns off FaceTime and iMessage in the UK and shows world governments how little power they actually have.

so your suggesting that Apple is more powerful than world governments?
essentially apple decide what happens and if governments don't like it then tough luck?

you've seen Robocop, haven't you? OCP were essentially what you're trying to suggest.

 

[MLVC]

The EU and UK: "We're democracies! Now, comply or we will shut down your business!"

I pray Apple turns off FaceTime and iMessage in the UK and shows world governments how little power they actually have.

So a company should be more powerful than democracies.

What the UK government is trying to do is atrocious, but what you are suggesting is possibly even worse. And terrible for AAPL so will never happen.

 

[jennyp]

It is now illegal to protest in the UK now ffs. The majority of the press here enjoy lucrative government advertising contracts so are virtually nothing more than mouthpieces.

None of that is true.

 

[segfaultdotorg]

The awful USB-C mandate was just the beginning! Apple should have left the market over that.

 

[MLVC]

The awful USB-C mandate was just the beginning! Apple should have left the market over that.

Apple wouldn't exist anymore if it left every market that did something you don't agree with.

 

[Paradoxally]

It's a shame this is just a bluff. Apple wouldn't do it because they would lose money.

Privacy is an illusion nowadays: governments certainly don't care (they never did) while companies pretend to care so they can sell more products and services.

 

[Smith288]

Make sense. If there was a situation that threatened the security of the public, they would have the power to investigate the guilty parties.

Historically Apple has shown that they’re unwilling to co-operate with unlocking phones for authorities. Can you blame the government for wanting to side-step them?

Ah, yes.... the antagonist character in the dystopian novella.

 

[BuffaloTF]

Dear sirs, with regards to your attempt to remove freedom of privacy in the name of making your job easier (investigations) you can go:

Spoiler: Naughty bits

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

yourself

Now, I’ve deleted out the key string… but is that a key higher than 4096? And did you really encrypt 4 bytes of data with over 4096 bits? Hahaha.