You mention Congress like it’s something serious. I’m not sure if you are American or not, but to pretty much the rest of the world, America is a joke, especially it’s government.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Threatens to Terminate Epic Games' Developer Accounts on August 28
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
You mention Congress like it’s something serious. I’m not sure if you are American or not, but to pretty much the rest of the world, America is a joke, especially it’s government.
Let's be clear here, In App Purchases. I can Download eBay, Amazon, Uber, Lyft, Bestbuy, etc.. for my iPhone.
Any one of those I can technically perform an "In App Purchase" !
Why is it that downloading Fornite or any other game does not allow me the same in app purchase ability ?
If Apple wants to charge for the vetting and security of apps, thats cool. get rid of all free apps.. If a developer wants to release a "free" app go right ahead, but for every installation Apple charges .30
Allow in app purchases to go direct, App store hosting is .30 per download.
Any one of those I can technically perform an "In App Purchase" !
Why is it that downloading Fornite or any other game does not allow me the same in app purchase ability ?
If Apple wants to charge for the vetting and security of apps, thats cool. get rid of all free apps.. If a developer wants to release a "free" app go right ahead, but for every installation Apple charges .30
Allow in app purchases to go direct, App store hosting is .30 per download.
Because you are missing the fact that digital goods are fundamentally different than real world goods and services.
While I *may* agree with you, Dumb people like me don't see the case for the distinction.
Let's change to Apple vs. Spotify. Apple Music comes preloaded on my iPhone and would like 9.99 /month for subscription. If I happen to prefer Tidal or Spotify better, sure I can DL for free, but of the 9.99 subscription to Spotify, they only receive 7.99, seems fishy to me... Sure Apple probably has Apple Music as a separate entity, i just want to see the funny math to see the app store is still getting 30%
Yes digital goods are not tangible, consumers usually have far less rights and privileges. Buying something digital is only a license and retention/operation of that digital goods could be dependent on some means to prevent its illegal duplication. If that network based verification ceases so does a consumers ability to use it. It becomes useless.
If you pay Spotify directly on their website, then they don’t have to share with apple. But if the reason they got the customer is that apple provided the ecosystem, the phone, the sdks, etc., then apple gets a cut.
Ok, sure, I can agree with you, let me ask this though... Particular to Fortnight, probably other games, there is this concept of CrossPlay functionality. We have our Epic account linked to a PC, Xbox, PS4, Switch and iPhone. (yes that is super pathetic any why should anyone have that many devices)
Point is, If i purchase items on a PC direct with Epic and they are available on all devices.
Theres a loop hole... Why should in app purchases then not go direct to the developer ?
Because, Apple, Google want to pretend they are adding value. They are not.
Yes, I agree on 30% for apps in the app store, but if they really want to help developers in app purchases should go to them directly. "Free" apps should be charge to the developer for $.30 a download.
If their game sucks, it will be gone soon enough. I feel like the whole eco system is overloaded with Freemium games.
Wow Apple is being complete and utter dog cr*p here. I was strongly considering buying a Pixel 4, now I'm certain it's right right move. Bye bye Apple. Greedy fascist scumbags.
I like a rational debate, so if Epic simply disabled iOS in app purchase and instead said "Please purchase items on epic.com" , would that allow them back to the app store? BTW: I have no skin in this, its my son who plays Fortnight and honestly never on my iPhone, I just feel like we may be hitting a "Napster" moment.
Based on your previous reply Apple believes it owns every customer, regardless of where is originated. IDK, maybe i'm just to old to understand the logic : )
Last edited:
IAPs are a feature with zero marginal costs. Players are not going to put their iphone down, then walk over to their PC and switch it on whenever they want to buy a new costume or dance. They are just going to give up. Especially in regions where a smartphone may well be their only computer.
The whole reason why IAPs even work is because it’s so convenient to buy them from within the device that triggers this sort of on-the-spur activity.
From Epic’s perspective, 70% of a lot of money is much much better than 0% of everything. They just want 100%. What Epic will likely do is simply bring back the original IAP, assuming Apple is even willing to let them back into the App Store by then.
Let's be clear, Apple is implementing a quaint policy on the app store without giving the developer more ways to sell the application and it's a highway robbery by the imposed on 30% fees due to the restriction of using third-party payment method for buying any subscription and in-app purchases.
Yes, that’s apple’s rule. (You can’t put a clickable link or anything that takes you directly to payment, though).
that’s why Apple doesn’t take a cut of Netflix’s subscriptions, for example. You subscribe to Netflix on Netflix.com, and then you use it on whatever devices you want. Apple only demands a cut when you buy the service on iOS devices in an app. There are various rules - you can’t give a link to click, you etc.But that’s the general idea.
The sections you listed are for app review guidelines, not Apple's developer program agreements. You obviously don't understand the difference. Violating app review guidelines gets an app rejected or removed from the store. This all would make sense to you if you understood the difference between app review guidelines and the developer program agreement, which is a contract.
Apple is threatening to terminate Epic's developer program, which is 'governed' by the contract entered into by both Epic and Apple. If Apple terminates this contract they do so at their own legal peril if Apple cannot enumerate cause for terminating the contract. I was asking what parts of that contract Epic violated that gives Apple cause to terminate the contract.
I was invited to participate in Apple's survey this year over a month before WWDC. During WWDC Apple started plastering "open invitation" survey links all over their developer web pages. I guess they realized some developers needed their ego stroked with a direct invitation before they would participate - I guess that's how their emotional marketing works.
Just as there are developers who prefer iOS over Android's fragmented install base, there are also plenty of morons who love Apple's logo so much they're willing to gulp Apple's Piss Flavor-Aid by the gallon. But those are different issues and have NOTHING to do with Apple's $h1tty policies and attitude - which is the core issue here. Try to stay focused on the issue please. I know it's hard - look away from the illuminated logo!
These are one and the same. Violating the app review guidelines violates the contract:
11.2 Termination
This Agreement and all rights and licenses granted by Apple hereunder and any services provided hereunder will terminate, effective immediately upon notice from Apple:
(a) if You or any of Your Authorized Developers fail to comply with any term of this Agreement other than those set forth below in this Section 11.2 and fail to cure such breach within 30 days after becoming aware of or receiving notice of such breach
...
(f) if You engage, or encourage others to engage, in any misleading, fraudulent, improper, unlawful or dishonest act relating to this Agreement, including, but not limited to, misrepresenting the nature of Your submitted Application (e.g., hiding or trying to hide functionality from Apple’s review, falsifying consumer reviews for Your Application, engaging in payment fraud, etc.).
See also, e.g. 3.3.3, and 3.3.25, which are “any term of this Agreement” that Epic didn’t comply with.
They hid it from the app reviewers, and that’s what counts (see, also, the section number i cited). They hid functionality from app review. Apple allowed it through. Then Epic flipped a switch and turned it on after it had been through review. Clear violation not only of the rules, but of the contract.
I just hope apple review processes are not run so poorly as you described. Its makes one feel so safe and secure!
I just hope apple review processes are not run so poorly as you described.
How would apple be able to stop it? If an app reads a page off a server, and one day the page on the server is changed, then the app changes. This happens with apps all the time. The way apple protects users from malicious changes using such a mechanism is to contractually enforce that if a scummy company like Epic does something like this, they get kicked out of the App Store.
Did you read the developer program agreement? I did. Literally says
3.3.7 Applications must comply with the Human Interface Guidelines (HIG) and other Documentation provided by Apple
I then pointed out the specific documented rules that Epic violated.
You would have answered your own question if you bothered to read the agreement, obviously.
I'm not ok with your attitude and behavior. You want an intelligent conversation? Let's do it. But I'm not going to continue conversing with someone who insults others. Feel free to reply, but I'm no longer going to read anymore from you.
Last edited:
That’s like comparing Apples to... Oranges. Windows owned ~90% of the desktop market and there was no reasonable alternative for most consumers. iOS is nowhere near that percent of the mobile device market, even if you consider just the high end.
Apple provides a philosophical approach to their ecosystem which some consumer prefer. There are many consumers who do not, and they can (and do) choose other devices and get a generally comparable experience.
They key point being that users have a reasonable alternative that was not available in Microsoft’s case, which means Apple lacks the same opportunity to be as bad.
Why? And I mean why does an Apple manufactured device specifically need to become a general computing device?
Why not a Kindle Fire, or some Android phone?