Apple Thunderbolt Cable and Promise Thunderbolt RAID Systems Hit the Apple Store

[maclaptop]

$50 just for the cable?!

But it's a "Magical and Revolutionary Cable", unlike anything any computer manufacturer in the free world has ever offered.

It's got special connectors, a pearl white luxury color, comes packaged in a special plastic bag, and was inspected before being "blessed" as it left the factory.

Carefully and gently placed in a special shipping box, this one very unique and exclusive cable.

Oh... and by the Way?

It's Apple and we all know they are so graciously extending us the supreme privilege of spending obscene amounts of money for their Magical Technologies...

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

A TC with Thunderbolt would have no benefit whatsoever. None. 0.

if you just wanted to use it as an external hdd it *would* be beneficial, or if you only used it as a plug in back up drive since the files would backup faster, but since that's not the purpose of a TC, I agree, TB would have NO benefit in a time capsule.

But it's a "Magical and Revolutionary Cable", unlike anything any computer manufacturer in the free world has ever offered.

It's got special connectors, a pearl white luxury color, comes packaged in a special plastic bag, and was inspected before being "blessed" as it left the factory.

Carefully and gently placed in a special shipping box, this one very unique and exclusive cable.

Oh... and by the Way?

It's Apple and we all know they are so graciously extending us the supreme privilege of spending obscene amounts of money for their Magical Technologies...

I mean, i know you personally love to hate on apple, but you realize that this RAID array isn't even made by apple right?

Also, I must have missed the keynote claiming a cable to be revolutionary and magical... it's one thing for apple to claim a new device like the iPad to be revolutionary (which is easy to make the argument it is) or magical (marketing term you haters love to use now) but I don't think apple has ever claimed simple things like cables to be magic in any way as far as i know

 

[jonohayes]

Boot of Thunderbolt Hard Drive?

So does this mean i can now boot off a Hard Drive connected via Thunderbolt?

also Network Macs via TCP/IP?

 

[cmaier]

I guess, but would prefer something with OSX and in silver as always it is a question of personal taste and what would look better in a home environment.. but the QNAP looks good, not sure if they are available in Spain though.. but thanks for the info.

I'm a big fan of Readynas (formerly Infrant, now netgear). You may want to look into them as well.

 

[Soliber]

But it's a "Magical and Revolutionary Cable", unlike anything any computer manufacturer in the free world has ever offered.

It's got special connectors, a pearl white luxury color, comes packaged in a special plastic bag, and was inspected before being "blessed" as it left the factory.

Carefully and gently placed in a special shipping box, this one very unique and exclusive cable.

Oh... and by the Way?

It's Apple and we all know they are so graciously extending us the supreme privilege of spending obscene amounts of money for their Magical Technologies...

Considering that rant, I have but one question: what is wrong with you?
Did Apple barbecue your cat or something?

 

[KnightWRX]

if you just wanted to use it as an external hdd it *would* be beneficial

Wait, are we talking about replacing the USB port that can do an airdisk on the TC with a TB port, connecting a TB disk to the TC or are we talking about connecting to the TC with TB between the host and the TC itself ?

Because the former offers no benefit whatsoever and is what I'm talking about. The latter requires extensive modifications to the TC hardware so that it can function as both a network based piece of equipment and as a host based storage array.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Wait, are we talking about replacing the USB port that can do an airdisk on the TC with a TB port, connecting a TB disk to the TC or are we talking about connecting to the TC with TB between the host and the TC itself ?

Because the former offers no benefit whatsoever and is what I'm talking about. The latter requires extensive modifications to the TC hardware so that it can function as both a network based piece of equipment and as a host based storage array.

Just to clear it up, I'm not the one suggesting to add a TB port, I agree with what you are saying and was just trying to tell the OP why there is no benefit to a TB port. We are discussing the second option though.

Connecting a TB drive to your TC to use as an airdisc or NAS type device wouldn't be beneficial because the network is still your bottleneck and your speeds aren't going to improve but you will have wasted a lot of money.

Where a TB port *could* be beneficial is in your initial backup of a machine that already has GB's of data on it, since it would create your initial backup in a fraction of the time, but since this is a one time use type deal, why would you want to add a $100 premium for the TB controller to your TC and then need to buy a TB cable to use it. Consensus, it would be a waste.

It *could* also be beneficial if you always plugged your mac into the TC to perform the backups, but what's the point of buying a TC then? You would be better off with an actual external HDD. TC isn't really meant to be plugged in every time you want to perform a backup, it's meant to do it every day over your network so that you can have hassle free backups. By plugging it in you are defeating the purpose and wasting money by using a TC instead of an actual HDD.

So again, no point in using TB on a TC, I'm agreeing 100% with you here, I was just saying that there are times where it would be beneficial to have TB, but those times are either in uses that go against the purpose of a TC in the first place, or a one time instance where the premium you would pay wouldn't make up for the one time you would use it.

 

[AppliedMicro]

A TC with Thunderbolt would have no benefit whatsoever. None. 0.

Wait, are we talking about replacing the USB port that can do an airdisk on the TC with a TB port, connecting a TB disk to the TC or (...)

Because the former offers no benefit whatsoever and is what I'm talking about

So again, no point in using TB on a TC

There certainly is a point in having a Thunderbolt Connection on a Time Capsule. Even ceteris paribus, i.e., if it replaces the USB port, while functionality isn't changed at all. And I don't the scenario is all too far-fetched.

You can backup the Time Capsule's built-in HD to an external drive connected to it's USB-port. Time Capsule can be used to store incremental backups, taking backups even from multiple computers and over Wi-Fi.

The entire Time Capsule can then be backed up on an external drive that can be stored off-site. Thunderbolt should easily be able to double, if not triple, the throughput, compared to the current USB implementation.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

There certainly is a point in having a Thunderbolt Connection on a Time Capsule. Even ceteris paribus, i.e., if it replaces the USB port, while functionality isn't changed at all. And I don't the scenario is all too far-fetched.

You can backup the Time Capsule's built-in HD to an external drive connected to it's USB-port. Time Capsule can be used to store incremental backups, taking backups even from multiple computers and over Wi-Fi.

The entire Time Capsule can then be backed up on an external drive that can be stored off-site. Thunderbolt should easily be able to double, if not triple, the throughput, compared to the current USB implementation.

It still wouldn't really be beneficial. If you are always backing up your TC drive to another external, you might as well just set up an external via usb and have it always clone the drive inside the TC. The backup to the TC still has to be done over your network, which is the real bottleneck. The TC isn't going to backup to an external drive with TB any faster.

 

[AppliedMicro]

If you are always backing up your TC drive to another external, you might as well just set up an external via usb and have it always clone the drive inside the TC

Is this possible with current Time Capsule firmware, i.e., can you set the external USB HD to "RAID-mirror" the internal, or make it do automatically?

As far as I remember (which isn't much in this case, as I personally don't own a TC) you have to trigger backups (from TC's built-in to USB-connected external drive) manually?

 

[AidenShaw]

Graphics card in docks is not going to happen. For technical reasons: 10Gbps is really not much.

Did you know that there are PCIe x1 graphics cards on the market?

See http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7709 600007854&IsNodeId=1&name=PCI Express x1

If PCIe x1 is good enough for graphics, why not TBolt with its PCIe x4 equivalence? You could put 4 PCIe x1 graphics cards on a TBolt port without oversubscribing.

Radeon HD 5450 512MB 64-bit DDR2 PCI Express x1 HDCP Low Profile Ready Video Card

 

[Soliber]

Did you know that there are PCIe x1 graphics cards on the market?

See http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7709 600007854&IsNodeId=1&name=PCI Express x1

If PCIe x1 is good enough for graphics, why not TBolt with its PCIe x4 equivalence? You could put 4 PCIe x1 graphics cards on a TBolt port without oversubscribing.

Image
Radeon HD 5450 512MB 64-bit DDR2 PCI Express x1 HDCP Low Profile Ready Video Card

Yes, but what's the point? A graphics card dock suggests adding extra power to game or for heavy rendering. All these things are impossible on a x1 and x4 PCIe card, because of bottleneck issues. Almost all of the normal graphics card slots on computer motherboards are at least x8 and these days usually x16 if I'm not mistaken.
x1 and x4 are perfect for merely driving a display, but not for much more

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Is this possible with current Time Capsule firmware, i.e., can you set the external USB HD to "RAID-mirror" the internal, or make it do automatically?

As far as I remember (which isn't much in this case, as I personally don't own a TC) you have to trigger backups (from TC's built-in to USB-connected external drive) manually?

not really sure either since i don't own a TC, but since the option is there i don't see why you couldn't create an AppleScript that says every time I backup to time machine, tell it to trigger a "mirror" image of the TC drive onto the external drive.

Yes, but what's the point? A graphics card dock suggests adding extra power to game or for heavy rendering. All these things are impossible on a x1 and x4 PCIe card, because of bottleneck issues. Almost all of the normal graphics card slots on computer motherboards are at least x8 and these days usually x16 if I'm not mistaken.
x1 and x4 are perfect for merely driving a display, but not for much more

perhaps adding a dedicated GPU to machines like the Air or 13" mbp.... certainly an x1 or x4 PCIe care is better than the Intel HD3000. Not everyone needs to add a dual SLI top of the line setup, though it would be cool and may even be possible with future iterations of TB.

 

[AidenShaw]

Yes, but what's the point? A graphics card dock suggests adding extra power to game or for heavy rendering. All these things are impossible on a x1 and x4 PCIe card, because of bottleneck issues. Almost all of the normal graphics card slots on computer motherboards are at least x8 and these days usually x16 if I'm not mistaken.

x1 and x4 are perfect for merely driving a display, but not for much more

Funny, to me adding a graphics card suggests driving a display.

x1 would be 250 MB/sec - or 36 seconds to transfer a full dual-layer DVD. x4 would be 1 GB/sec - or 9 secs for a DVD, less than a minute for a full dual-layer BD.

I'd think that you could do some useful encoding or GPGPU work with that kind of bandwidth. It might not be as fast as PCIe 2.0 x16, but it's a lot faster than nothing. And far, far faster than the Nvidia or Intel integrated graphics in many systems.

I agree that you wouldn't want to put a liquid-nitrogen cooled SLI gaming graphics system on TBolt, but I don't agree with simply dismissing the idea of putting graphics cards in a TBolt chassis.

 

[SilianRail]

This pricing is a joke. PCI Express 32 Gbps external cable coming in 2013 and using open standards will be cheap. Displayport 1.2 continues to provide over twice the display bandwidth as TBolt as well.

 

[smeagol]

This has got to be the ugliest looking hardware on planet earth. Talk about taking a few hundred steps back in industrial design.

 

[weckart]

It's not Apple's copper-based t-bolt, it's Intel's technology, and they are the ones who made it copper based for it's first implementation in order to cut costs associated with fiber, and they also need copper if they want to provide power to a device.

I don't believe this for a second. This is Apple we are talking about. If you have to ask how much it costs, then you are not in the market for Apple or relevant peripherals.

The problems, as I remember, are the difficulties in producing glass fibre that resists bending and twisting without shattering. As anyone with a TOSlink cable knows, handle with care.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

I don't believe this for a second. This is Apple we are talking about. If you have to ask how much it costs, then you are not in the market for Apple or relevant peripherals.

The problems, as I remember, are the difficulties in producing glass fibre that resists bending and twisting without shattering. As anyone with a TOSlink cable knows, handle with care.

Guess you skipped the first part of the post.

For the hundredth time, Thunderbolt is INTEL'S technology, not Apples. So this really isn't Apple we are talking about, it's Intel, and Intel's Thunderbolt technology.

Please, find me one article that reports Apple used copper to cut costs.

 

[Torrijos]

Wait, are we talking about replacing the USB port that can do an airdisk on the TC with a TB port, connecting a TB disk to the TC or are we talking about connecting to the TC with TB between the host and the TC itself ?

I think the point is having an Airport Extreme with a TB port instead of a Time Capsule.

Knowing that the drive inside TC is a WD Caviar Green (max burst data rate of 250 MB/s and with an average 98 MB/s), but also that any mechanical drive could face catastrophic failure, a single drive is not only a slow solution but also a dangerous one if you want to have a reliable system.

Sure right now the bottleneck would SEEM to be the ways to access your drive (theoretically 75MB/s max for WiFi n, and 3x125MB/s for the ethernet ports(which have a low overhead reaching 111MB/s in real life tests)).

But IF the device was able to concurrently respond to all the ports, the disk would be saturated (98 Vs. 450 total) even the USB 3.0 specification citing a realistic data rate of 400MB/s, just under the theoretical max demand that could be made to the Airport Extreme.

And this is now...
What then, when WiFi goes a lot faster in a couples of years?
Right now the 75MB/s are theoretical in a few year they might have become real use cases.
Somehow I believe the user might be OK with replacing a networking device every couple of years, not so with a functioning backup system.

So having a Airport Extreme with a TB port would cater to those how want to have a reliable RAID system, that would be future proof (rather have a system that ends up being a little under used than a system that become the bottleneck) if networking speeds improve.

P.S. one more case where it could prove usefull...
Your computer drive crashes, you change the drive and connect to the backup RAID directly benefiting from TB speeds for recovery. At current real world performance of 800MB/s against theoretical USB3 data rate of 625MB/s TB would still be 28% faster and against USB 3 specification 400MB/s you get 100% faster.

Of course there is also the fact that a number of people bought iMacs and MBPros that didn't came with USB 3 and it would be even more reason to want a AE with TB instead of USB, any USB.

 

[koruki]

You just spent $1999 on 8TB. Does $50 even matter at that point?

Same group of ppl who queue for $600 iPhone's (no carrier price) every launch date but take half a day to decide if the $1 app is worth downloading from the app store

As for the $50 cable, this was poorly executed. They really should of just included the cable and bumped the price up to balance it out. Its not really the money but the way its presented tot he customer. It's like a restaurant charging you $1 for a doggy bag, it's a tiny fraction of the meal cost but it sticks out like a thorn in the eyes of the customer.

 

[dr Dunkel]

For the hundredth time, Thunderbolt is INTEL'S technology, not Apples. So this really isn't Apple we are talking about, it's Intel, and Intel's Thunderbolt technology.

Yeah, but at this rate, the only computer company that will have shifted any models with Copperbolt will be Apple. Therefore, we can call this generation and implementation of LP, "Apple's Thunderbolt".

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Yeah, but at this rate, the only computer company that will have shifted any models with Copperbolt will be Apple, therefore, we can call this generation and implementation of LP, "Apples Thunderbolt".

yeah since nobody has put thunderbolt into their computers after 4 months, the technology surely belongs to whichever company was first to implement it. Even though thunderbolt is really owned, developed, marketed, and trademarked by Intel, it's Apple's Thunderbolt; oh and Al Gore invented the internets!!

 

[dr Dunkel]

yeah since nobody has put thunderbolt into their computers after 4 months, the technology surely belongs to whichever company was first to implement it. Even though thunderbolt is really owned, developed, marketed, and trademarked by Intel, it's Apple's Thunderbolt; oh and Al Gore invented the internets!!

Why so sensitive about it? TB is not owned by Apple, only associated with Apple. Lighten up a peak, it's just a technology

 

[JAT]

lol. Long live USB! I'm personally fine with waiting 2 minutes longer for my file transfer.

Now multiply by 1000. Still happy?

Even in China Virgins are not cheap to find and keep.

Keep? Why would you?

do you realize how fast internal SSDs in a RAID0 are already?

my MBP goes well over 500 MB/sec. I'm sure a Mac Pro with 4x SSD can easily match this speed, for much less money.

So...in which world is 1TB of SSDs plus a Mac Pro less than $1000?

This pricing is a joke. PCI Express 32 Gbps external cable coming in 2013 and using open standards will be cheap. Displayport 1.2 continues to provide over twice the display bandwidth as TBolt as well.

So, you won't be using a computer for the next 2 years?

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Why so sensitive about it? TB is not owned by Apple, only associated with Apple. Lighten up a peak, it's just a technology

where did i say i was upset about it? that response was supposed to be taken as sarcastic...

anyways, just pointing it out because apparently a lot of people are under the impression that Apple made Thunderbolt and Intel made Light Peak.