Apple Thunderbolt Cable and Promise Thunderbolt RAID Systems Hit the Apple Store

[Thermonuclear]

PCIe breakout box

A PCIe 2.0 breakout box needs to support PICe 2.0 bandwidth. What is PCIe 2.0 bandwidth?

Each PCIe 2.0 lane needs 500 MB/sec. That's bytes, not bits. A high end 16 lane graphics card needs to be fed at a rate of 8 GB/sec, so that's a bit rate of (at least) 64 Gb/sec. 100 Gbps fiber optic Light Peak can handle that, but Apple's 10 Gbps copper T-bolt can't. T-bolt can't even handle 16 lane PCIe 1.0 that is half the speed of PCIe 2.0.

If you can get by with cheap, low-demand video cards and single lane cards then maybe a T-bolt breakout box might work. Maybe.

Just wait for the fiber. You'll be glad you did.

 

[sined13]

999$ for host based storage, and only 4 TB's worth ?

Talk about gouging. I'll stick to NAS boxes.

Let's hope Thunderbolt filters down to more consumer levels than this, otherwise, it's not going to last long.

I bought my old Promise 4300 a few years ago at ~$400, plus 4x 500GB at ~$100 each -- so, close to $900 for 2TB (1.5TB in Raid 5 config).

Now for the same price, you get double capacity and bandwidth speed beyond compare.

 

[scottchlee]

Guess I am going to stick with esata on the OWC Mercury Elite Pro Qx2.

 

[stefmesman]

A PCIe 2.0 breakout box needs to support PICe 2.0 bandwidth. What is PCIe 2.0 bandwidth?

Each PCIe 2.0 lane needs 500 MB/sec. That's bytes, not bits. A high end 16 lane graphics card needs to be fed at a rate of 8 GB/sec, so that's a bit rate of (at least) 64 Gb/sec. 100 Gbps fiber optic Light Peak can handle that, but Apple's 10 Gbps copper T-bolt can't. T-bolt can't even handle 16 lane PCIe 1.0 that is half the speed of PCIe 2.0.

If you can get by with cheap, low-demand video cards and single lane cards then maybe a T-bolt breakout box might work. Maybe.

Just wait for the fiber. You'll be glad you did.

fiber will use the same port with transcoders on the cable ends. as has been confirmed by Intel. Thunderbolt is not made by apple its made by intel. apple was just the first to use it.

it was intel's choice to go for copper because fiber is too expensive. (for now) and when it does become affordable. they will release fiber cables with transcoders on the cable ends. have fun playing the waiting game

 

[Apple Corps]

sonystyle - it means new Mac Pros very soon. I'm sure we will also see 3d party add on cards this year.

 

[Thunderhawks]

Guess I am going to stick with esata on the OWC Mercury Elite Pro Qx2.

Guaranteed OWC is already working on the half price solution.

It just takes a while for things to get widely accepted.

Can't believe all the moaning.

Probably for 95% of normal household users this is a non issue or not a product they would need.

 

[Thermonuclear]

thunderbolt does 10Gbps back and forth simultaneously and has support for monitors... can 10GbE do that?... no

and on top of that its scalable to 100Gbps in the future on the same hardware.

10 gigabit Ethernet defines only full duplex links, so yes it can carry data in both directions at once.

Apple's T-bolt copper does video through Display Port wiring that rides the same cable; the T-bolt-only wires are not involved in video transmission.

 

[chirpie]

Oh apple. $50 is just silly.
I guess its hand soldered by virgins in the Foxconn factory.

If this was in the published literature, I'd buy it. ^_^

 

[Azathoth]

thunderbolt does 10Gbps back and forth simultaneously and has support for monitors... can 10GbE do that?... no

and on top of that its scalable to 100Gbps in the future on the same hardware.

We'll see about the scalability on existing HW - I've been in the game too long to trust those "future-proof" claims.

Moreover I was correcting a major error, presumably a typo, where the person wrote TB having 10GB/s signalling. It is 10Gb/s.
AFAIK 10GbE is 10Gbps bi-directional

The reason that 10GbE was brought up was to show that:
1. 10Gbps standards have existed for a while
2. the cabling for such standards is << less expensive than Apple's 50 buck "magic" Thunderbolt cable

 

[aardwolf]

All I want is a simple 2.5" HDD enclosure so I can finally add an SSD to my iMac without opening it

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/on-the-go

That still maxes out at 800Mbps, much slower than the typical SSD which can run at 3Gbps or faster (listed as 400MB/sec for some reason)...

 

[TMay]

Typo?

Thunderbolt is 10Gbps.

10GbE is 10Gbps.

Data throughput should be very similar, though the DMA mode on Tunderbolt should make it easier to saturate the interface.

Yep.

Should have been Gb/s but I was in a hurry.

 

[JazzyGB1]

Am I the only one who thinks Thunderbolt implementation is poor?

Am I the only one who currently hates Apple's Thunderbolt?
I mean, I love the throughput & bandwidth part of it - that's great!
I just don't get the attraction to having to daisy chain everything - that's a terrible idea.
By all means give us 5 Thunderbolt connections on a Mac that allow us to connect a HD or display or interface or whatever we like, that'd be great, but having to daisy chain stuff from just 1 port like on the MacBook Pro is Archaic and will massively hinder its adoption - not to mention make it cumbersome and untidy.
Also their choice of ports is poor too.
It wouldn't be so bad if you still had a separate display port, you'd simply connect your MacBook Pro's display to the display port and your thunderbolt product to the Thunderbolt port, but changing the display port into a Thunderbolt port is just confusing. On some Macs a display port will now allow you to add audio interfaces & hard drive arrays - on another Mac it'll just be a display port?
It would have made far more sense to leave the display port as a connection for displays and to make the USB ports Thunderbolt capable (like Sony have).People are used to attaching HD & interfaces via USB, so this method would be far more natural than a mini display port.
its just not natural to connect a display to a HD array!!!
Not to mention the savings you'd make on not having to buy new leads - at £50 a go Thunderbolt is VERY expensive.
I can see it dying a death as ADC did before, not because it isn't good, but because it's confusing & poorly put into practice. Different versions and implementations of Thunderbolt by different manufacturers is only going to fragment sales and confuse the end user further.
A new high bandwidth port for super fast HD's...great!
A new high bandwidth port for everything...Big thumbs down!

 

[DustinT]

Tremendous first offering

Tremendous first offering! Awesome speed, decent price.

 

[scottchlee]

And don't forget the $2,000 option at the Apple Store Canada.

 

[shervieux]

all apple cables and adapters cost 50$... :/

but can't you connect 2 macbooks with the TB cable to transfer files? i mean with normal mode, not target disk mode!


SO SO SO cheap!! have you ever seen an external usb disk drive without the usb cable..?

Believe it or not....

Printers do not come with cables anymore....

I just bought a Nikon d3100 DSLR camera. That does not come with the USB cable to transfer your pictures. They expect you to remove the SD card every time. More and more, it seems that less and less devices are coming with needed cables. I know someone who just bought a DVD player and they needed to buy the RCA cables separately.

In this bad economy, it seems nickel and dime you is the new rule.

 

[Stiksi]

Ah, but you miss Steve's grand plan. With iOS dominance, censorship of adult content in the app store will mean everyone will be virgins, thus bringing the costs right down in the long run!

Phazer

Um, since when has watching (or "using") adult entertainment made anyone lose their virginity?

 

[peskaa]

Believe it or not....

Printers do not come with cables anymore....

That's because all decent printers are WiFi now That said, I'm appalled Nikon don't supply a USB cable.

 

[zync]

I don't understand all the shock over the cable price. Since when have brand-new protocol cables sold from a major retailer ever been reasonably priced? They'll be on monoprice for $8 once a few more peripherals are released.

I was thinking the exact same thing while reading this thread. Thanks for being the voice of reason. I thought more people knew that this was the case. Apple branded cables are always $29+ while the same cables are like $3 on monoprice. My MDP to HDMI cable cost be $3.

All of the cables to route through my walls, my patch cables, my wall plates, and my TV mount cost less than $100. I bought 5 iPhone cables to split with a friend and it cost $10. That's including shipping which they don't gouge you on either. Monoprice is awesome.

 

[stefmesman]

We'll see about the scalability on existing HW - I've been in the game too long to trust those "future-proof" claims.

Moreover I was correcting a major error, presumably a typo, where the person wrote TB having 10GB/s signalling. It is 10Gb/s.
AFAIK 10GbE is 10Gbps bi-directional

The reason that 10GbE was brought up was to show that:
1. 10Gbps standards have existed for a while
2. the cabling for such standards is << less expensive than Apple's 50 buck "magic" Thunderbolt cable

it is bi-directional, just not at 10Gbps back and forth.

the cable, is complete nonsense when talking about price (as you stated). it of course is more advanced then a mini-display cable. since it has 10Gbps forth and 10Gbps back + a monitor video stream.
the only reason i see apple making it this expensive is the production. (not many TB cable makers at the moment, so they can charge this)

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

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Huge apple fail. I don't care how fast thunderbolt is. I can go to best buy and get a USB 3.0 hard drive for 100 bucks, cable included. Thanks apple for screwing us over again by being so stubbOrn!!! PleAse oh god please someone come out with a thunderbolt USB 3 hub or Adaptor! I'll pay 100 just for that!!!!!

because apple made the drives and set the prices

 

[jclardy]

Man, $50 and it isn't even gold plated.

I guess i'll wait till Monoprice is selling them. Or until I own two macs that have thunderbolt ports.

 

[tinman0]

All I want is a simple 2.5" HDD enclosure so I can finally add an SSD to my iMac without opening it

Then go buy one.

 

[blackburn]

Oh snap.
PCI wants to squash Thunderbolt @ SemiAccurate

 

[KnightWRX]

Thunderbolt is 10GB/s... I'm guessing would be quite a bit faster than 10Gb/s Ethernet.

Thanks for playing.

Look again, ThunderBolt is 10 Gbps, same as 10 GE. I would try to at least have accurate information before being cocky in my posts if I were you.

 

[benpatient]

800. Freaking. Megabytes. Per second!

People are going to use this as something much more than just storage...

do you realize how fast internal SSDs in a RAID0 are already?

my MBP goes well over 500 MB/sec. I'm sure a Mac Pro with 4x SSD can easily match this speed, for much less money.