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all apple cables and adapters cost 50$... :/

but can't you connect 2 macbooks with the TB cable to transfer files? i mean with normal mode, not target disk mode!


SO SO SO cheap!! have you ever seen an external usb disk drive without the usb cable..?

Actually, one of the new functionalities of FCPx is the ability to tie your Macs together to create your own "Rendering farm". Not sure if their vision is tying together with TB/FW or Ethernet...but I can't imagine the new release of Lion won't allow SOME type of connection between machines...especially for this type of functionality. Pretty exciting stuff, especially for independent companies with low or non-existant production budgets.

nice. 50 dollar cables is just what I wanted.

This has been addressed. Are you new to Apple? Go check out most ALL cords from Apple...whether it's a display cord...MDP to VGA/DVI/HDMI, et al. Or the iPad connections...HDMI/Camera Connect, etc. The list goes on. Someone mentioned it earlier. Keep your eyes on monoprice.com (I do NOT have any affiliation with them...but those buying cables will truly benefit by bookmarking their site:)) Prices from other companies once released (Griffin, etc.) will bring the price down a bit soon enough

Look at all the kids here getting upset that they can't afford this with their pocket money. Go back to playing with your iToys, you don't need Thunderbolt.

$50 for a cable is nothing compared to some of the fibre and scsi cables running around work. But the iKids think this is a new shiny toy for them to take to show & tell at school.

AMEN!!! LOL....Most folks the NEED this type of speed will make that money back on a project in 15 minutes. Easily...not to mention, write off it's price on next year's IRS term paper:) F/W 800 cables initially were at LEAST this much! I had to find a USB to serial adaptor for a piece of audio gear (Sound processor from BBE) to be able to link to computer for R/T sound EQ'ing last week. YEP! $49...for about as "Legacy" a cable as you can get, no matter how proprietary. Apple is the first to offer the cable. They're going to charge a premium for it. It's not a simple cord to produce...a bit more like ethernet, which isn't cheap itself.

At this price, most people will barely be able to afford the cable..
USB3 anyone???

Good Lord...seriously? USB3 is NOTHING in comparison Speed-Wise to T/B or Light Peak...or whatever Sony is calling it. Did you see the front page? What Sony is doing with their "Dock" with the Graphics processing increase, etc? USB 3.0, while nice and speedy does NOT compare to 10gb/sec BOTh ways! Again...if you have to question the pricing, you DON'T need the product! Stick with your legacy USB 2.0 and hang tight...my guess is OWC/MacSales will soon be releasing a PCI-Exp Card with USB 3.0 and/or a T/B to USB 3.0 adaptor. There will plenty of fun stuff on the horizon. Intel has now release T/B to the rest of the PC community...as well as the cottage industries for HDD and SSD storage and NAS solutions...as well as audio and video production companies for their peripherals...and I HONESTLY believe in this technology...I think it will be the NEW USB as we move in to this next decade. Fast as hell...decent power provided on board with the copper implementation, outboard video processing, ingestion, R/T audio EQ'ing and frequency analyzation....there are SOOOO many things I could use this for with band and comedian production...if we ever got to running ethernet and/or TB for control, my cord box would drop for well over 600 pounds on casters...to a manageable suitcase of 40lbs or less:) I know, I'm dreaming now...but this type of speed is unfathomable for those of you that haven't or aren't using RAID type storage, NAS systems or SSD these days. Truly...our bottleneck is (and hasn't been for sometime) NOT the CPU any longer...as proven by so many tasks on the Mac Book Air. So much of our daily tasks on computers can be made much faster by simply adding solid state storage. Not CPU increase, forget RAM...for MOST tasks (Not all, I realize transcoding video is a different animal), SSD is key. Taken a step forward, with limited internal storage options...the next best thing is external storage and backup. T/B not only provides these options at the fastest speeds EVER...it also opens the door for SOOO many excellent peripherals, no matter what your skill set is.

As Sony has jumped on board, I don't see this going the way of F/W. (Not that Sony wasn't one of the primary PC makers that ALSO included F/W, even to the bitter end)...>I think we'll see the same from Dell and HP soon. Mother board manufactures...the big ones, have now been blessed with T/B access. And keep in mind...Intel has YET to support on board USB 3.0 yet. It will come with the next round of Ivy Bridge processors...along with T/B. How sweet will that be? And certainly, IMVHO....well worth waiting on the next Mac Pro for. Ivy Bridge processing...BOTH T/B and USB 3.0 (native to the chipset)...as well as the internal capacity already alotted in the Mac Pro? Would be Very Very Sweet!

I think sometimes we tend to underestimate the thinking in Cupertino. Yes, other manufacturers are implementing USB 3.0...but still in a relatively low yield. Not all of them certainly...and if they do, only 1 or two ports, with the necessary internal "changes" necessary to take advantage of it's speed...IE, again, it has NOT been natively built in to the Intel Chipset...YET!!! It's coming. But if you take a look around....hardly anything, other than a few Western Digital harddrives that Do have USB2/3 capability. No real peripherals for professionals (Apogee, Matrox, Tascam, not even sure if M-Audio has support yet *Just a few I use in my studio) have support yet (I think they are waiting out the USB3/Thunder B shake out myself). I also use Motu gear as well as DBX Driveracks and processors from BBE. The only one I've spoken to (as I'm also trying to put a digital future field system together) that has mentioned one or the other is Motu...they will definitely be looking at the T/B implementation AND the addition or lack thereof on the PC side.

Some of you price complainers need to realize what you're bagging on. Not only the FIRST product to market with BRAND NEW technology...but also an implementation I believe that will initially be relegated to the professional (By pro, I mean people that are making their living on their workstations) market. Both for storage redundancy...ability to move projects around the studio, back up off site...as well as the peripheral market where "latency" is concerned.

That said...I also believe we will see T/B become cheaper and cheaper as the R&D costs are recovered and the licensing prices drop...as well as the pieces/parts to put them together. From there, the skies the limit...as is the market penetration.

How cool would it be if your iPad4 or iPhone 6 has the 30 pin to T/B option vs. USB? How many times have you had to hurry up and wait as your iPhone/iPad/Android had to sync itself? Course this could be a non issue as we are going to cloud sync/store etc.

I do like what Sony is doing with that Dock though...and as someone mentioned earlier....although T/B is a bit slower that direct PCI Express lanes, it's Not that much slower...and if there is the bandwidth to bring out board graphic power to a laptop...how cool would that be? An 11" MBA with the graphic power of a Mac Pro or top of the line PC's GPU....all by pluggin in to a 2 pound dock...when necessary. Otherwise, it's a 2 pound portable computer ready for everyday tasks without the dock

Sorry...I truly didn't mean to go on so long...but there are SO many possibilities with this new technology...it continues to boggle my mind that the first 30 or 40 posts are people (mainly) complaining about both the price of the cable and the storage system...where NEITHER is out of the realm of cost across the board for NAS storage systems for high end facilities. Hell...I work with a couple of post houses that would pay for that rig in less than 3 hours of work!!! And they've got 6 workstations going at any given time...10-12 hours a day!!! What I think some of you fail to realize is that people DO make money with computers...and TIME is MONEY!!! Speed creates Time which creates MORE MONEY!!! Bottom line. The initial investment is incredibly cheap if you've sped up your production, even by a meager 5-10%!!! Over time, this adds up to huge money!!!

Sorry...Rant over. I'll shut up now

J
 
I LIKE the separate cable.
I think it should be the norm to NEVER include cables of any kind.
After years of buying peripherals I have amassed dozens of extra USB, SCSI, FireWire, Video, and Power cables (and let's not even discuss old network and pre-usb i/o cables). Buy a Quad controller drive now, and you get three extra cables you will never use, at the least!
The wastefulness is appalling.
 
Believe it or not....

Printers do not come with cables anymore....

I just bought a Nikon d3100 DSLR camera. That does not come with the USB cable to transfer your pictures. They expect you to remove the SD card every time.

Should have gone with Canon DSLR ;) Video and USB cables included! :p
 
A similar product from Promise without thunderbolt is around $999. I don't see the issue with the price to be honest, considering that it includes hardware RAID. Your cheap NAS boxes are not the same thing.

Having dealt with hardware raid on Sun level hardware, I can tell you I much prefer the software solutions these days. Hardware raid is a pain to manage usually and is tied to a controller. Software raids are much more flexible solutions that are easier to migrate from system to system, especially if you're getting into parity based arrays like RAID5 or 6 or variations of these (RAID 50, 51, 60, 61).

Here is another similar product from Gtech - no Thunderbolt

$1239

http://www.videoguys.com/Item/G-Tec...terface+Storage+Solutions/33937313037403.aspx

You're clearly not the target market.

Nope, I either deal in my home network or big enterprise SAN solutions. Thunderbolt, as a "prosumer" or "SMB" solution is not in my markets at all indeed.

But that is the point of my post : pointing out that Thunderbolt, right now with the peripherals that are announced or out there is not consumer technology and frankly, I don't see it trickling down to that level anytime soon. I knew this just by looking at what was in the pipeline (and pointed this out in other Thunderbolt threads).

Anyone just expecting an "external hard drive with ThunderBolt" is in for either a long wait or an unpleasant surprise as far as price goes.
 
Thunderbolt is not 20 Gbps, you can't use both directions for the same transfer. ;)
TB has two channels, each is bi-directional at 10Gbps, you can have 20Gbps upstream and downstream.

Correct but it would be amazing to have an Airport Extreme with a TB port so you could use proper drives to backup your data with RAID 5, ensuring you could maintain your backup system yourself.
Plus allowing access through the ethernet (1Gb/s still theoretically faster than USB2 or even FW800) for others machines.

Sure the max throughput of the TB technology would never be reached but it would at least allow maximum use of all the ports of the Airport Extreme without problems.
Why pay the premium for a TB drive or array when you would see no benefits vs a much cheaper usb drive?
 
I just emailed monoprices.com to see if they'll be selling Thunderbolt cables soon...No way in hell I'd pay $50 for one of those...and knowing monoprices.com they'll easily beat that price and still make something of quality.

So when you get the cable, what are you going to connect it to? :confused: ;)

Unless you are buying this Promise RAID system that is. :)
 
TB has two channels, each is bi-directional at 10Gbps, you can have 20Gbps upstream and downstream.

This goes contrary to statements made by previous articles on the subject :

http://www.macworld.com/article/158145/2011/02/thunderbolt_what_you_need_to_know.html

In theory, it’s blazing fast. A Thunderbolt channel can provide up to 10 Gigabits per second (Gbps) of data throughput—and each Thunderbolt port includes two channels. Thunderbolt is also bi-directional, meaning it can transmit and receive data at the same time. Even with estimated real-world performance of around 8Gbps, Thunderbolt is many times faster than FireWire 800 and USB 3.0. It’s also significantly faster than the eSATA connections available on many Windows PCs.

Why pay the premium for a TB drive or array when you would see no benefits vs a much cheaper usb drive?

Because some people don't understand bottlenecks.
 
What annoys me the most is why these companies keep selling these external RAID boxes always filled with drives but never empty. I have my own drives I want to use and don't want to pay for 8TB of storage which costs a lot more than if you picked them out yourself. They seem to make most of their profit from those overpriced drives.
 
Having dealt with hardware raid on Sun level hardware, I can tell you I much prefer the software solutions these days. Hardware raid is a pain to manage usually and is tied to a controller. Software raids are much more flexible solutions that are easier to migrate from system to system, especially if you're getting into parity based arrays like RAID5 or 6 or variations of these (RAID 50, 51, 60, 61).



Nope, I either deal in my home network or big enterprise SAN solutions. Thunderbolt, as a "prosumer" or "SMB" solution is not in my markets at all indeed.

But that is the point of my post : pointing out that Thunderbolt, right now with the peripherals that are announced or out there is not consumer technology and frankly, I don't see it trickling down to that level anytime soon. I knew this just by looking at what was in the pipeline (and pointed this out in other Thunderbolt threads).

Anyone just expecting an "external hard drive with ThunderBolt" is in for either a long wait or an unpleasant surprise as far as price goes.

If Thunderbolt had a iSCSI implementation would it work better for you?
 
Well, you could saturate it.

http://barefeats.com/ssd6g05.html

3GB sequential read from 8 SSD's stripped. Which makes 24Gbit, which is faster than TB can handle. So if there was an external RAID adapter to control these SSD's, that would do it.

Please re-read post, I was quoting what was currently availaible, not vapourware - there are people testing GDDR6 for storage which runs at 10's of GBps but this is not currently availiable.
 
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Having dealt with hardware raid on Sun level hardware, I can tell you I much prefer the software solutions these days. Hardware raid is a pain to manage usually and is tied to a controller. Software raids are much more flexible solutions that are easier to migrate from system to system, especially if you're getting into parity based arrays like RAID5 or 6 or variations of these (RAID 50, 51, 60, 61).



Nope, I either deal in my home network or big enterprise SAN solutions. Thunderbolt, as a "prosumer" or "SMB" solution is not in my markets at all indeed.

But that is the point of my post : pointing out that Thunderbolt, right now with the peripherals that are announced or out there is not consumer technology and frankly, I don't see it trickling down to that level anytime soon. I knew this just by looking at what was in the pipeline (and pointed this out in other Thunderbolt threads).

Anyone just expecting an "external hard drive with ThunderBolt" is in for either a long wait or an unpleasant surprise as far as price goes.
I am expecting a TB to USB3 or eSATA connector. I hope this happens. Looking at the price, for my needs, this will do the job that I need it for. The 8TB price is about the same if I buy a similar product from the likes of GTech/Lacie etc that only has FW800 or eSATA.
 
all apple cables and adapters cost 50$... :/

but can't you connect 2 macbooks with the TB cable to transfer files? i mean with normal mode, not target disk mode!


SO SO SO cheap!! have you ever seen an external usb disk drive without the usb cable..?

how about every printer on the market... before we had networking printers...
 
If Thunderbolt had a iSCSI implementation would it work better for you?

What good would it do ? Thunderbolt is not a network interconnect.

I am expecting a TB to USB3 or eSATA connector. I hope this happens. Looking at the price, for my needs, this will do the job that I need it for.

The problem is getting a Thunderbolt controller on a USB3 or eSATA adapter would result in insane prices. A USB3 add-in card is like 20$ and eSATA brackets can be had for 10s of $ if you can sacrifice an internal port.

The 8TB price is about the same if I buy a similar product from the likes of GTech/Lacie etc that only has FW800 or eSATA.

There's much cheaper eSATA RAID boxes out there. You're paying for hardware raid, which like I said, it pretty much a nice way to lock your data to a single vendor, at least for parity based arrays (Perc based RAID 5 ? Good luck migrating those disks to a machine without a Perc controller and keeping the data... Same for Promise/Adaptec etc...). I don't like it and computers have been quick enough for quite a few years where software based raids are a non-issue as far as performance goes.

Will Apple sue them?

They didn't for the MDP port, why would they for Thunderbolt, an Intel technology ?
 
Please re-read post, the current throughput limit is 40Gbps.... it will move to 100Gbps in the future, on the same hardware.

You don't combine channels. TB has two channels, so one channel carries 10Gbps data, bidirectionally. But bidirectional does not mean 20Gbps.

So it's 10Gbps.
 
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This goes contrary to statements made by previous articles on the subject :

Thunderbolt is a combination of DisplayPort and a PCI Express x4 connection. Thunderbolt uses two 10-Gbps channels; each channel has two bidirectional lanes, for a total of 40 Gbps, according to Aviel Yogev, director of Thunderbolt engineering.

(When PCMag.com asked for more clarification, an Intel spokesman replied: "It's actually 2 channels, 10Gbps birectional. So in summation you have potential for up to 20Gbps upstream AND 20Gbps downstream, but any single device maxes out at 10Gbps (you don't "combine" the two channels)."

from http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2380890,00.asp

so i guess we are both kind of right, total bandwidth is 20Gbps up AND down, but any single device can only use 10Gbps up AND down!

Because some people don't understand bottlenecks.
indeed :D
 
Ummm.... we knew these were going to be expensive from the start, why is everyone so shocked?


LOL. Exactly. I think the reason is that people expect everyone else to work for free while they get paid for their time. Just ask Doctors! (or ex-Doctors that we might know here).

The early adopters (of which I am often one and I'm sure many people here are) pay more and end up paying a lot of the development costs. ;-)
 
Please re-read post, I was quoting what was currently availaible, not vapourware - there are people testing GDDR6 for storage which runs at 10's of GBps but this is not currently availiable.

Well, it's not available right now, but something among the lines of what I described being available isn't too far into the future either.
 
Thunderbolt is a combination of DisplayPort and a PCI Express x4 connection. Thunderbolt uses two 10-Gbps channels; each channel has two bidirectional lanes, for a total of 40 Gbps, according to Aviel Yogev, director of Thunderbolt engineering.

from http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2380890,00.asp



indeed :D

From that article:

Intel spokesman replied: "It's actually 2 channels, 10Gbps birectional. So in summation you have potential for up to 20Gbps upstream AND 20Gbps downstream, but any single device maxes out at 10Gbps (you don't "combine" the two channels)."
 
From that article:

Intel spokesman replied: "It's actually 2 channels, 10Gbps birectional. So in summation you have potential for up to 20Gbps upstream AND 20Gbps downstream, but any single device maxes out at 10Gbps (you don't "combine" the two channels)."

Thanks for the clarification, indeed that jives more with what I've read.
 
999$ for host based storage, and only 4 TB's worth ? :eek:

Talk about gouging. I'll stick to NAS boxes.

Let's hope Thunderbolt filters down to more consumer levels than this, otherwise, it's not going to last long.

Since NAS storage and high speed direct attach storage do not have the same use cases, you are probably making a wise decision.

Why are a bunch of hard drives so expensive? You can get them separately for the fraction of that price... It's like $100 for a 2TB drive, which would be $200 for 4TB, how the hell is $1000 justified for the same amount of storage?

You will notice the difference between the 4x1TB and the 4x2TB is about $500 or what you would expect the difference in price for 4 2TB drives.

I believe the 4TB is four 1 TB drives and they also have to include the raid controller, the tb interface to the raid controller, the hot swap containers and interface for each drive, etc...
 
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