Apple to Adopt RCS Messaging Standard for Better Interoperability With Android Devices

[cyb3rdud3]

Please, please, please let this be a step in the direction of 'killing off' those non-carrier grade chat apps like WhatsApp.

But until then, nice to see the Apple Messages app remains standards protocol compliant and updates it with the additional RCS Universal Profile protocol.

 

[bluecoast]

We don’t yet know what level of encryption RCS messages will have. I suspect probably some level of encryption, but not E2EE. I guess that’s why they’ll remain green as they’ll be relatively insecure messages vs iMessage.

Yeah the encryption method will be interesting.

I expect lots of governments would NOT want the replacement for sms to be EE2E.

But let’s hope that they use the signal protocol or something.

 

[bluecoast]

Because it solves no problem. There is already WhatsApp and similar apps for cross platform communication. Why do iOS users need RCS - we don't!!!

The real purpose of Google and EU complaining is that iMessage is an ecosystem gem that they are keen to break. The EU came for the Lightning port and it wasn't a big deal. But that emboldened them to come after iMessage. Next, they'll come after FaceTime. And next, multiple app stores: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/13/eu-iphone-app-sideloading-coming-2024/

This must stop!!! Apple should leave the EU market rather than break its ecosystem. Close all the European stores and offices. Fire everyone. Setup shop in the UK. Europeans will still import them because that's how strong the product is. Send the EU dictators a message.

Ummm you do know that the EU is around 500m people large and is Apple’s biggest market outside of the Americas?

Good luck with Tim Cook keeping his job if he does that.

 

[Nuvi]

In many European countries iMessage is as useful as SMS aka its kind of dead. Third party apps like WhatsApp or Snapchat are used much more popular making iMessage kind of useless feature. Having RCS support allows Apple and Google steer users away from third party apps.

 

[djc6]

The standard that Apple will be supporting seems to be RCS Universal Profile.

[...]

Google to Apple. Apple to Google. Not Encrypted.

Just need Apple to just say - However, messaging your friends on Android is not encrypted. It's the standard, you see...

Thank you for pointing this out. I did a search online for more info, and found an article stating "Apple intends to work with the GSMA to add encryption to the RCS Universal Profile."

So taking a page out of Microsoft's "Embrace and Extend" playbook so they can turn this around on Google?

Apple's flavor of RCS won't support Google's end-to-end encryption extension

Apple wants no part of Google's addition of end to-end encryption to RCS, and the iPhone maker will instead work with the standards body to mandate a universal version instead.

appleinsider.com

 

[0339327]

So I was concerned about this back in December of last year and I sent this to our dear CEO.

Obviously, he disagreed, but it seems that Apple decided they’d rather give Google the win than make iMessage cross platform.


“Tim,

I am sure your team had discussed this ad nauseam, however, I hope you don’t mind my two cents, from a customer perspective.

Although skeptical of all large companies and corporations, I am particularly concerned about Google and Facebook who make their money, not on products, but on the exploitation of their customers. I am concerned that like USB-C and the App Store, Apple may soon find itself defending iMessage on a legal platform thereby giving Google a win.

It is my belief, that the world would be better served if Apple made a iMessage a cross platform app, and hopefully becoming the new standard, one which Apple controls, rather than Apple being forced to adopt RCS.

The timing seems crucial, as the world tries to decentralize the smartphone and new standards emerge.

Thank you,

________ ”

 

[mrochester]

So I was concerned about this back in December of last year and I sent this to our dear CEO.

Obviously, he disagreed, but it seems that Apple decided they’d rather give Google the win than make iMessage cross platform.


“Tim,

I am sure your team had discussed this ad nauseam, however, I hope you don’t mind my two cents, from a customer perspective.

Although skeptical of all large companies and corporations, I am particularly concerned about Google and Facebook who make their money, not on products, but on the exploitation of their customers. I am concerned that like USB-C and the App Store, Apple may soon find itself defending iMessage on a legal platform thereby giving Google a win.

It is my belief, that the world would be better served if Apple made a iMessage a cross platform app, and hopefully becoming the new standard, one which Apple controls, rather than Apple being forced to adopt RCS.

The timing seems crucial, as the world tries to decentralize the smartphone and new standards emerge.

Thank you,

________ ”

The iMessage protocol becoming more dominant is not what the EU wants.

People seem to be confusing cross-platform messaging services with messaging interoperability.

 

[darknight201]

So I was concerned about this back in December of last year and I sent this to our dear CEO.

Obviously, he disagreed, but it seems that Apple decided they’d rather give Google the win than make iMessage cross platform.


“Tim,

I am sure your team had discussed this ad nauseam, however, I hope you don’t mind my two cents, from a customer perspective.

Although skeptical of all large companies and corporations, I am particularly concerned about Google and Facebook who make their money, not on products, but on the exploitation of their customers. I am concerned that like USB-C and the App Store, Apple may soon find itself defending iMessage on a legal platform thereby giving Google a win.

It is my belief, that the world would be better served if Apple made a iMessage a cross platform app, and hopefully becoming the new standard, one which Apple controls, rather than Apple being forced to adopt RCS.

The timing seems crucial, as the world tries to decentralize the smartphone and new standards emerge.

Thank you,

________ ”

It's not about a "win" for Google. It's about Apple's bottom line and protecting their customer base. A cross platform iMessage app is far worse for Apple than adding RCS as a fallback messaging protocol. Within iMesaage, RCS will still likely come with many restrictions, particularly with regard to group chats ( although not nearly as many or in severity as SMS/MMS)

 

[Nuvi]

Because it solves no problem. There is already WhatsApp and similar apps for cross platform communication. Why do iOS users need RCS - we don't!!!

The real purpose of Google and EU complaining is that iMessage is an ecosystem gem that they are keen to break. The EU came for the Lightning port and it wasn't a big deal. But that emboldened them to come after iMessage. Next, they'll come after FaceTime. And next, multiple app stores: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/13/eu-iphone-app-sideloading-coming-2024/

This must stop!!! Apple should leave the EU market rather than break it's ecosystem. Close all the European stores and offices. Fire everyone. Setup shop in the UK. Europeans will still import them because that's how strong the product is. Send the EU dictators a message.

Do you have any understanding how stupid move that would be - a brain dead move! A move which would send AAPL spiralling down like crazy.

You do understand that third party apps are used more and more. RCS is beneficial for both Apple and Google since less people will use third party communication apps. If someone manages to develop successful “western Weixin (WeChat)” Apple and Google will suffer.

 

[mrochester]

It's not about a "win" for Google. It's about Apple's bottom line and protecting their customer base. A cross platform iMessage app is far worse for Apple than adding RCS as a fallback messaging protocol. Within iMesaage, RCS will still likely come with many restrictions, particularly with regard to group chats ( although not nearly as many or in severity as SMS/MMS)

imessage isn’t a thing in which RCS can be within. They are both messaging protocols. I think you mean the messages app.

 

[darknight201]

imessage isn’t a thing in which RCS can be within. They are both messaging protocols. I think you mean the messages app.

No. IMessage is an app with its own internal proprietary protocol. RCS is just a protocol. The EU is currently considering regulation that would force Apple to provide the entire iMessage app on other platforms (android). That is a far worse situation for Apple than internally supporting a more modern fallback than SMS/MMS.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

In many European countries iMessage is as useful as SMS aka its kind of dead. Third party apps like WhatsApp or Snapchat are used much more popular making iMessage kind of useless feature. Having RCS support allows Apple and Google steer users away from third party apps.

Yup, it's a real shame that its apps like that gained its popularity. Hopefully, people get weened off them, as it's a bad habit on the scale on which those apps are used. I appreciate people want more than just plain text message, cross-platform, but the architecture and infrastructure, and data ownership of those kinds of 'apps' really wasn't for the benefit of the users.

 

[mrochester]

No. IMessage is an app with its own internal proprietary protocol. RCS is just a protocol. The EU is currently considering regulation that would force Apple to provide the entire iMessage app on other platforms (android). That is a far worse situation for Apple than internally supporting a more modern fallback than SMS/MMS.

The app is called messages. iMessage is a messaging protocol like RCS.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

No. IMessage is an app with its own internal proprietary protocol. RCS is just a protocol. The EU is currently considering regulation that would force Apple to provide the entire iMessage app on other platforms (android). That is a far worse situation for Apple than internally supporting a more modern fallback than SMS/MMS.

Nope you are missing the point It was a pedantic point, but a valid one. The app is Messages, and it is compatible with the GSM SMS standard and the iMessage standard. It was Messages since launch, on OSX it was introduced in iChat but that was later also renamed to Message.

 

[mrochester]

Nope you are missing the point It was a pedantic point, but a valid one. The app is Messages, and it is compatible with the GSM SMS standard and the iMessage standard. It used to be the iMessage app but that was renamed back in 2020 iirc.

The app has never been called iMessage AFAIK.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The app has never been called iMessage AFAIK.

Sorry, yes you are right. On the iPhone it was Messages. I was confused with iChat on OSX I guess

 

[mrochester]

Sorry, yes you are right. On the iPhone it was Messages. I was confused with iChat on OSX I guess

It was called Text initially, but was renamed to messages in iphone os 3 when MMS was introduced. The app has been known as messages ever since and has just had additional protocols added to it (imessage, and soon to be RCS).

The EU are not interested in regulating messaging apps, they are only interested in regulating messaging protocols. This seems to be confusing a lot of people.

 

[masotime]

could be (depending on contracts/bundle with carrier and location of the other party (integrational/domestic)) way more expensive than an iMessage,

Good point, I had forgotten about this - and it’s even more reason for me to prefer not to use SMS/MMS/RCS anyway. Overall I still prefer a ”over IP” messaging service. WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal, pick your poison but at least none of these have “international” versus “domestic” shenanigans.

 

[darknight201]

Nope you are missing the point It was a pedantic point, but a valid one. The app is Messages, and it is compatible with the GSM SMS standard and the iMessage standard. It was Messages since launch, on OSX it was introduced in iChat but that was later also renamed to Message.

True. I intentionally used iMessage instead of Messages because "Messages" is also the name of Google's messaging app as well as Samsung's default messaging app, and Facebook calls theirs Messenger. I thought the term was too generic for the conversation, but that's my fault. Appologies

 

[MrDober]

Hell is starting to freeze-over.

Check out this related article: Snoop Dogg says he’s giving up smoking weed

 

[mrochester]

True. I intentionally used iMessage instead of Messages because "Messages" is also the name of Google's messaging app as well as Samsung's default messaging app, and Facebook calls theirs Messenger. I thought the term was too generic for the conversation, but that's my fault. Appologies

In this case you have to be very specific, because the difference between the app and the protocol is key. Likewise it’s not WhatsApp the app that the EU are regulating, it’s whatsapp the messaging protocol. They are 2 distinct things.

 

[lkrupp]

So you think iMessage is disappearing?

The way regulators in the EU and U.S. are barking it wouldn’t be that far fetched an idea.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

This statement is completely untrue. Ask any middle school or high school student in the US what happens when a non-iMessage user joins a group chat. The answer... Every single person in the group chat gets furious because the ENTIRE group chat just got artificially restricted to 2002 technology. Low res images, unviewable videos, no typing indicators, etc, etc, etc. So what happens then? They start a new group chat without the green bubble. That person without an iPhone gets explicitly excluded from every conversation. This is particularly painful because nearly every kid now has an iPhone for this exact reason. Any kid without an iPhone is basically an outcast because they will get kicked or explicitly excluded from every conversation. Source: parent of 5 kids

I don't change my opinions based on the whims of middle and high schoolers.

Regardless, I was responding to the poster explaining it to his mother, who I assume isn't a high schooler. If adults care about chat color bubbles, they need to be slapped.

 

[Stunning_Sense4712]

And builds on top of it. Universal Profile does not have encryption built into that standard.

It’s a mess, but if Apple can push encryption to being part of the standard itself that’s a win.

However, governments all over the world (including the “free world”) will make sure this doesn’t happen. Too big a blow to their data vacuuming total surveillance machinery. Expect another FBI whining campaign imploring you to “think of the children”.

I suspect what Apple is doing is intentional. They tend to sabotage features/projects they never wanted implemented by gimping them like not implementing E2E encryption. I believe Apple is doing this solely to protect iMessage since it seems like the EU is about to crack down on Apple's monopolistic behavior and are using this to head off their arguments that would have been used against them.

 

[sparkinstx]

As long as the traffic isn't routed through Google's servers, I'm okay with it.