Apple to Adopt RCS Messaging Standard for Better Interoperability With Android Devices

[OneBar]

That‘s not correct. Apple can provide RCS hub functionality to it‘s whole userbase without carriers supporting it. Google just didn‘t bother up until 2 years ago, where they flicked the switch and allowed anyone, whos carrier dragged their feet on supporting RCS, to use Jibe as a fallback.

There are currently carriers world wide that don‘t have a RCS hub or agreement with Google. RCS simple is no thing with them, but their customers can still open Google Messages and opt into using Jibe to get RCS.

Which is not what the RCS literature and carriers have said. Carriers have to implement RCS just like they did SMS, or they only have their own proprietary messaging systems. I'm old enough to remember when that was a thing. In order for UP to actually be universal, carriers will have to implement the protocol on their end and manufacturers will have to have their software utilize it. Google has their own version which is baked into Android, goes through their servers, and they have apps that can be downloaded that do the same. Yours in an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[NT1440]

RCS won’t be better though, so I doubt it’ll make people switch from what they already use.

That’s the real fun of this, it’s only American android users that are even “bothered” by all this. The vast majority of the rest of the world is already using app platforms for their messaging.

 

[masotime]

That’s the real fun of this, it’s only American android users that are even “bothered” by all this. The vast majority of the rest of the world is already using app platforms for their messaging.

Yes this is what boggles me the most about the passionate debate in this thread - the existing cross-platform messaging services are so good that even iMessage is vastly inferior in my opinion. I'm like a diehard Apple fan, and I only use iMessage / SMS if I have no other choice, otherwise it's Telegram or Signal all the way.

 

[mrochester]

That’s the real fun of this, it’s only American android users that are even “bothered” by all this. The vast majority of the rest of the world is already using app platforms for their messaging.

This is why I’ve said so many times on so many different sites, this is a solved problem. We don’t really need another chat style protocol for our phones.

 

[darknight201]

Again, UP is the same as SMS; it's just a protocol. Google's version goes through Google's servers; UP does not. Hence why it's universal. Google owns their version of RCS, they do not own UP. UP will go through their server when someone using UP texts someone using G-RCS and if there is not encryption in place, then they'll have just as much access as they do their own. That encryption will be up to the utilizers of UP, not UP itself.

That is not how RCS works. An RCS capable client connects to the network through a single server. In the US that is now Google's Jibe server. Before T-Mobile switched their users over to Jibe, they had their own RCS server that did not implement Google's flavor of extended RCS. They likely operated on the standard UP. I'm on AT&T network throu Jibe and during that time I could have RCS chats with T-Mobile users. Their UP messages had to go through the Jibe server for me to receive them

 

[AppliedMicro]

RCS won’t be better though, so I doubt it’ll make people switch from what they already use. RCS would have to offer something better than existing over the top messaging services to see people switch in any meaningful way.

It makes for a decent „fallback“, but I agree it won’t be making many users switch from existing messengers.

 

[OneBar]

That is not how RCS works. An RCS capable client connects to the network through a single server. In the US that is now Google's Jibe server. Before T-Mobile switched their users over to Jibe, they had their own RCS server that did not implement Google's flavor of extended RCS. They likely operated on the standard UP. I'm on AT&T network throu Jibe and during that time I could have RCS chats with T-Mobile users. Their UP messages had to go through the Jibe server for me to receive them

It is currently because no one is utilizing UP. The only RCS currently being used is Google's. That's the point here. Apple is going to implement UP, which is RCS, but not Google's RCS. So they're doing what everyone is whining about them doing, but it's going to be basically useless because no one is implementing UP currently.

 

[NT1440]

It makes for a decent „fallback“, but I agree it won’t be making many users switch from existing messengers.

But RCS isn’t an actual fallback, when it fails (which has been a problem) it falls back to sms, if the messages don’t disappear into the ether entirely.

 

[mrochester]

But RCS isn’t an actual fallback, when it fails (which has been a problem) it falls back to sms, if the messages don’t disappear into the ether entirely.

Yes the fallback will be SMS. It’ll be iMessage, RCS, SMS. RCS will just be another layer in the hierarchy.

 

[darknight201]

But RCS isn’t an actual fallback, when it fails (which has been a problem) it falls back to sms, if the messages don’t disappear into the ether entirely.

The "message disappears into the ether" hasn't been a problem I've experienced in a long time. Basically since AT&T realized they have no business trying to write software and switched to Google's Jibe server. T-Mobile did a good job of implementing RCS. I never had problems messaging friends on their network. I guess T-Mobile just decided there wasn't any benefit to maintaining their own servers so they also switched to Jibe. At this point all major carriers in the US support RCS so it is effectively a universal fallback here.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The standard is what everybody is using, guess what nobody in the entire United States is using the RCS Universal Profile. I would argue it is not a standard if nobody is using it. The only reason why we have E2E is because Google added it on top of the existing standards that were adopted by the US wireless carriers. This is just Apple crippling the standard intentionally on their devices so they can say your messages are not secure and can be read on advertisements but they conveniently leave out the part Apple was solely the reason why everybody can read those message openly.

Standards aren't defined by the number of people using it, it is still just a deviation from the standard. That is not a case of Apple crippling it intentionally at all. If you want standards to change, change the standard using the process so everyone can benefit. But hey who needs actual standards right?

Yes, I've actually helped create global standards as part of ISO, and IEC.

 

[NT1440]

The "message disappears into the ether" hasn't been a problem I've experienced in a long time. Basically since AT&T realized they have no business trying to write software and switched to Google's Jibe server. T-Mobile did a good job of implementing RCS. I never had problems messaging friends on their network. I guess T-Mobile just decided there wasn't any benefit to maintaining their own servers so they also switched to Jibe

That’s the point I’ve been getting at. The telecoms have no business incentive to implement any of this into their own infrastructure. It’s Google’s solution in search of a problem that doesn’t make any business sense. Given the thin veneer Google has as a private company when it’s really an intelligence community tool (keyshot, maps, etc) I truly believe there’s a completely different reason they’ve been pushing for this.

 

[rjohnstone]

Yey - finally we can have Spam in iMessage:

Google Messages users in India are reportedly drowning in ads

Including ads for gambling sites and personal loans.

www.theverge.com

We already get spam in iMessage in the form of spam texts. Just as annoying.

 

[HazeAndHahmahneez]

bubbles should be yellow to denote "warning non-apple device, most likely google, yuck, beware!..."

 

[darknight201]

That’s the point I’ve been getting at. The telecoms have no business incentive to implement any of this into their own infrastructure. It’s Google’s solution in search of a problem that doesn’t make any business sense. Given the thin veneer Google has as a private company when it’s really an intelligence community tool (keyshot, maps, etc) I truly believe there’s a completely different reason they’ve been pushing for this.

I can't wrap my head around how you think legacy SMS messaging is a Google invented, non-existent problem. Or that RCS messaging isn't vastly superior.
Conspiracy theories about Google being a covert arm of the US intelligence community?!? Really?

 

[NapoleonIV]

Finally! Thank you EU for pushing Apple to be less monopolistic. This is an example of how monopolistic practices hurt consumers.

 

[NT1440]

I can't wrap my head around how you think legacy SMS messaging is a Google invented, non-existent problem. Or that RCS messaging isn't vastly superior.
Conspiracy theories about Google being a covert arm of the US intelligence community?!? Really?

What are you talking about with your first sentence? The sms protocol was made long before Google was formed. How did you get that interpretation?

To *actually replace* sms, RCS isn’t a solution as constituted. It’s a middleman, that still relies on SMS as a fallback. That’s what I meant by there being no business justification for telecoms to budget the infrastructure to directly supporting it. The capital expense of SMS is long ago returned on. Because RCS doesn’t actually replace SMS on the infrastructure side, how does a board of directors at Verizon not laugh at the idea of spending millions to support it? If it’s actually forced upon them they’ll just get grants to implement it anyway, so who’s going to piss that extra padding to a bonus away by seeking to budget those funds?

There’s nothing covert about most of Silicon Valley being contractors for intelligence agencies.

 

[jvolkman]

It is currently because no one is utilizing UP. The only RCS currently being used is Google's. That's the point here. Apple is going to implement UP, which is RCS, but not Google's RCS. So they're doing what everyone is whining about them doing, but it's going to be basically useless because no one is implementing UP currently.

Google's service (Jibe) is Universal Profile.

 

[SMH4KIDIOT]

It is currently because no one is utilizing UP. The only RCS currently being used is Google's. That's the point here. Apple is going to implement UP, which is RCS, but not Google's RCS. So they're doing what everyone is whining about them doing, but it's going to be basically useless because no one is implementing UP currently.

Google Jibe is Universal Profile. Google added E2EE extension on top of UP. When Apple adds UP in the iMessage stack, it will work with Google Jibe but without the E2EE extension. When Apple decides they want to add E2EE. it will work with Google Jibe with E2EE. Google E2EE extension is not proprietary. They are using the opensource signal encryption protocol and soon will be adding the MLS encryption protocol which is another international standard being developed for cross platform encryption. UP will be updated to support Google's E2EE extension as all major carriers in the US have chosen to use Google's RCS services as standard. They will also add MLS encryption protocol because that is the international standard being developed and Google has signed on to support it which again means all 3 major US carriers support it.

 

[TimFL1]

It is currently because no one is utilizing UP. The only RCS currently being used is Google's. That's the point here. Apple is going to implement UP, which is RCS, but not Google's RCS. So they're doing what everyone is whining about them doing, but it's going to be basically useless because no one is implementing UP currently.

What are you talking about? UP is a standard set of instructions, features and best practices.. not some form of service or protocol like Jibe. You‘re mistaken RCS (the platform / protocol / service) with UP (the guide / the playbook / the rules that RCS providers need to abide to for proper interconnections and cross-platform support).
There can be many hubs, provided by carriers or platform holders like Apple / Google, that comply with the Universal Profile and interconnect with other hubs.

You should go and read up on what RCS and UP actually are. If you want, I can send you a direct link to the latest UP specification, it should make things clearer to you.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

I fully expect carriers to start charging outrageous fees per message for RCS

Because RCS doesn't already exist on millions of devices?

 

[truthsteve]

This must be a sarcasm post, right?

no. god forbid I have an opinion you disagree with

 

[ProfessionalFan]

RCS is so stupid. No thanks.

Get ready for "oh you're a green bubble? are you non-RCS green bubble or RCS green bubble?"

Or is it a new color? Brown bubble? Can you video chat with brown bubble people? Who knows. Imagine teaching your mom this.

It's going to be a green bubble the same as SMS is and will remain. Blue for iMessage. Green for everything else.

 

[truthsteve]

It is intentional on Apple's part. Yes, MMS has significant restrictions. But those restrictions only apply for Apple users if Apple forces the their users down to that level. The iOS Messages app is software and as such can do things to to work around the restrictions presented to their users. They could, for example, send all group messages traffic through iMesaage ( full resolution images/videos, typing indicators, etc) for all iMessage users, and also create MMS message group for all non-iMessage participants, but hide that from the iMessage users. Any incoming MMS messages from iMessage capable users would not be presented to the user (because they already got that message through iMessage). That would enable everyone to communicate together, but not restrict the features of the iMessage capable clients. Apple has had 2 decades to do something like this, but they've CHOSEN not to.

except there is a massive flaw. iMessage groups have a certain level of features available such as leaving a group. if you left that group, there would be no way of updating the group roster for mms users. you have effectively created a special group with different rules that a user has to learn.

 

[Mackie924]

no. god forbid I have an opinion you disagree with

It was a comment on how ridiculous it was.