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Well, considering he's talking about film professionals, I doubt he cares much about multicam since not many directors shoot multicam.

That's not my experience at all. I think most films shoot with multiple cameras for some portion of production.
 
what about dvd authoring?

surely with compressor being complete tosh, there is no way to author from fcpx - proper dvd authoring, not using toast.

So... Im happy-ish using fcp7 for now - it crashes, trashing prefs. still as tedious as ever to keep it alive (feels old and creaky).

I have CS5 master collection on my mac, I used premiere 6.5 2002-2004 at college, certainly more fcp than going to avid (of course avid charge when bumping up .2/.3 osx iterations, from when I have Avid xpress pro 4.?)

With the master collection, is there dvd authoring (like DVD studio Pro?) Or third party (apples fav two words) apps either on mac or PC (im looking to get a desktop soon, could actually be saving a few £s and getting a PC tower! if all im using is Premiere)
 
If
We've all heard people wondering what on earth Apple is thinking with - that they have completely lost it - in the past. Often it turns out that Apple actually had some good ideas (that took time to develop properly), and the outcry is conveniently forgotten. (Apart from funny threads like the ones about the iPod at launch for example. :p)

That is often true with hobbiest and individual professionals. But not with companies that invest 10s if not 100s of thousands of dollars in professional software. The time its takes FCP X to develop is money and clients lost.

Companies will not base their future on a piece of software that might come out good in an unknown time frame while their competitors go with proven, trusted alternatives available today.

Quark Express fell behind the curve. Indesign became an industry standard.

Aldus Freehand fell behind the curve. Illustrator became an industry standard.

Adobe Premier fell behind the curve and Final Cut became an industry standard.

History has a way of repeating itself
 
Well really, Apple is trying to start a new curve here.

I'm not saying that I think everyone will wait around.. but really, idiosyncrasies aside, an NLE was an NLE up until FCP X.. That is the one thing Apple made sure of with this release, they changed how you can work in post...

Thats really what Apple has going for it right now. Sure, there are things missing.. for big post houses, they are gaping holes. But really the holes only reside in the sharing of a project between other apps for further post work.. (save for multi-cam support)..

I think that while initially Apple will lose some business, they'll gain ground as the functionality returns. I've had a chance to get my hands dirty with the app, and I think the basic editing workflow is really quite nice. I can't use it as my main editor now, but I'll be following its updates very closely, from Apple, and others. I guess since I was into audio editing, working in DAWs originally, I don't give a second thought to 3rd party add ons/plugins. Adobe has huge plugin support as well.

There is a growing professional market for digital distribution only media, and this covers that quite nicely. That is the new pro market, and with good support that can be added on as needed for bigger/more complex working environments, it'll find its place in several markets within the next couple/few years.
 
Things will work out, regardless of how it goes. I think they know as well as anybody, if Apple doesn't cut it, people will go elsewhere. So while some might do the fastest jumping ship that I've ever seen, those are the breaks. If the company knows what they're doing and know how to survive the tides, then they'll correct things quickly and/or do what they can to learn the lesson and win back fans. Even Windows 7 showed that Microsoft can learn a thing or two and act upon it.

So FCX might be a Vista moment, so it'll be interesting to see how fast they bounce back. I, for one, am never too quick to adopt the new standard, I tend to let the first guys go first and see how well or bad the new program is before I decide to invest in it. Heck, I'd do that with Logic Pro, in a heartbeat, because MY main thing is soundtrack and music; so of course, I'd use the vast majority of pro Music facilities easily. Then again, Logic Pro is a lot cheaper. Even then, I'd play the waiting game a bit, because I sort of can. My main increase of performance, I'm looking for, comes with cheaper and cheaper SSD drives in the future.

Still, I'm looking to learn the ins and outs of video production, myself. Looking to step up to skills beyond the hobby kind and had my eye on this one. It still sounds like a pretty decent start until I'm ready to invest into something bigger. My only worry had been how fast will I outgrow it.
 
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After talking with people from other video houses and my own experience at my company, I think its too late for FCP X. Even if in a year all the pro features are back.

The professional community has lost trust in Apples pro line.


I have to agree 100%. Post houses, etc make HUGE, long term investments. Once burned like this, they won't give Apple a second chance.

Apple's FAQ and follow up have only made things worse cuz they're relying on 3rd parties to solve the issues. That ain't gonna fly..AT ALL. That is in effect saying "straight up" to pros in broadcast & film...we knowingly screwed you. What post house would invest in a company's products that blatantly "says"... "we don't care enough to invest in those features you need or support you, but maybe, hopefully, someday 'soon' 3rd party plugins and apps will provide you with what you need. Apple is showing, once again, their arrogance...and just how UN-different they've become.

Guys and gals in pro workflow environments with FCP...let's face reality, stop venting...go buy Avid MC and move on. It's over.

If you're the owner of a FCP based post house...oh my...I can only imagine your pain. yowsa.
 
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steveOooo said:
what about dvd authoring?

surely with compressor being complete tosh, there is no way to author from fcpx - proper dvd authoring, not using toast.

So... Im happy-ish using fcp7 for now - it crashes, trashing prefs. still as tedious as ever to keep it alive (feels old and creaky).

I have CS5 master collection on my mac, I used premiere 6.5 2002-2004 at college, certainly more fcp than going to avid (of course avid charge when bumping up .2/.3 osx iterations, from when I have Avid xpress pro 4.?)

With the master collection, is there dvd authoring (like DVD studio Pro?) Or third party (apples fav two words) apps either on mac or PC (im looking to get a desktop soon, could actually be saving a few £s and getting a PC tower! if all im using is Premiere)

Adobe Encore. Super tight integration with Photoshop and After Effects. Great DVD authoring solution and comes in the suite. Seriously took me one tutorial to learn ins and outs. You can do some amazing things with AE and Encore.
 
The FCPX saga is getting a little tired now (for me at least), but I appreciate some people are concerned about the future of software they depend on. These things usually work out pretty well in the long run -- look at the initial reaction to OS X, for instance, as highlighted by HP the other day. As a programmer I've personally been through several major shifts in the platforms I work with over the years. Again, it always worked out pretty well, and I'm actually very glad that people are always trying to change and improve stuff that we come to take for granted. It keeps things fresh and interesting.

I understand your point, but this is a major shift in some areas that could mean real dollars to some pro users if fixes and add-ons don't happen promptly. Things like proper output to external monitors and decks with HDSDI will delay switching to FCPX. Removing XML is a MAJOR problem for me because I use FCP for offline and move to online environments with XML. OMF output to audio facilities is also very important and gone. If the output and XML/OMF issues get addressed, that will go a long way to quieting the frenzy. And hopefully not by forcing us to use 3rd party tools like Automatic Duck, but by restoring features to FCP. As it is on the audio side, it seems we will definitely need 3rd party utilities just to assign specific audio files to specific tracks which is important to mix houses using pro-tools to finish our multi-track FCP mixes. So it's not just user quirks and grumbling about change, it's real concerns about being set up by Apple as a viable alternative to Avid for 10 years, then having the floor drop out in some areas.
 
Closest thing to an admission of fault we'll ever get from Apple, I'd say.

People will still need to keep FCP7 installed, since they might have to go back and work on older project. What a silly thing to leave out...

I suspect a third party might release some kind of conversion tool.

They haven't admitted anything - they're merely telling their customers what they were going to do, something they should have done a month ago instead of keeping it all hush-hush and under wraps. This whole fiasco could have been avoided had Apple been open with its customers from day one - outlining what exactly was missing from the release, the time line of when the missing features would be added, and whether certain features people were waiting for will appear as free or paid for updates. The sad reality of the situation is once again we have Steve's obsession with secrecy screwing over and otherwise pretty good product which is then compounded by their public announcement of 'no more FCP 7 sales' then saying something different to enterprise customers.

Steve maybe a good showman but holy sh-tballs he has a long way to go when it comes to clearly communicating information to customers who rely on Apple products for their bread and butter.
 
Yes, it upsets me because they sold a piece of software that is basically useless for film professionals and are planning on charging additional fees for functionality. It borders on criminal.

Translation "booo hoo I'm mad because I have to spend $299+ some plugins when programs like this used to cost $10,000+"

A "Film Professional" should be able to afford it considering they dropped the price down to $299.
 
Translation "booo hoo I'm mad because I have to spend $299+ some plugins when programs like this used to cost $10,000+"

A "Film Professional" should be able to afford it considering they dropped the price down to $299.

So the latest FCS was $10.000+? Funny, I only paid a thousand bucks. And they even threw in Soundtrack, Color, etc, and several GB worth of content.

And it could/can do remarkable things even without a plug in. Heck, I could do a Audio Crossfade with one single click :rolleyes:

No, Apple replaced FCE with FCPX. And left high end users in the dry.
 
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Steve maybe a good showman but holy sh-tballs he has a long way to go when it comes to clearly communicating information to customers who rely on Apple products for their bread and butter.

I believe the lack of communication, while creating FCPX through now... IS the communication. Translation: Apple is done with the pro market.

Once you accept that, FCPX looks quite good, if not brilliant.
 
That is often true with hobbiest and individual professionals. But not with companies that invest 10s if not 100s of thousands of dollars in professional software. The time its takes FCP X to develop is money and clients lost.

Companies will not base their future on a piece of software that might come out good in an unknown time frame while their competitors go with proven, trusted alternatives available today.

Quark Express fell behind the curve. Indesign became an industry standard.

Aldus Freehand fell behind the curve. Illustrator became an industry standard.

Adobe Premier fell behind the curve and Final Cut became an industry standard.

History has a way of repeating itself

I worked with and loved Quark. InDesigned launched as a pretty bad app that I had no interest in changing to. Then it developed, and I left Quark behind. The bad launch did not "ruin everything forever", people (even pros) are more rational than that.
 
Translation "booo hoo I'm mad because I have to spend $299+ some plugins when programs like this used to cost $10,000+"

A "Film Professional" should be able to afford it considering they dropped the price down to $299.
Facts aren't a friend to you, I see.
 
Sure, there are things missing.. for big post houses, they are gaping holes. But really the holes only reside in the sharing of a project between other apps for further post work.. (save for multi-cam support)...

I don't disagree with what you are saying overall but sharing of projects for further post work is critical for some workflows.
 
I don't disagree with what you are saying overall but sharing of projects for further post work is critical for some workflows.

Oh no doubt, and it would be great to see Apple address this issue. If not them, then the release of the XML standards and API's to developers hopefully will bring competitive options to the table. I've seen videos on Duck Export, and it seems to do the job for audio, but at a price that seems a bit criminal. Frankly, for OMF, seeing as there aren't inherently tracks for the audio, I'd love to see someone come up with an export plugin that would allow the assignment of tracks.. that way dialogue, fx, music and anything else could be given their own tracks, then you could selectively choose which regions went on which tracks while maintaining their place in time.

The market needs more than that though, we need to be able to export the video in a manner that is suitable for round trip fx, color and anything-else processing.

I want to be able to choose which clips reference proxy files instead of a global switch. I work on a laptop a whole lot, a proxy workflow is essential, and I am glad it is there, but I also get CGI sent to me in video formats with alpha channels, and prores anything won't work for me save 4 4 4, and thats ridiculous.. and it doesn't matter because I am still forced to switch back to the full res files for *everything* in able to edit *anything* with an alpha channel..

I really like the potential of this app, and I am excited to see it develop.. I hope it stays that way.
 
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I fail to understand why everyone thinks crippled FCP X is such a great deal. Looking at this new pathetic FCP X 3rd party "upgrade" path you'll have to spend $1k just have half of FC Studio 3 features, not to mention that Color, Soundtrack, DVD Studio and Cinema Tools are dead. And what happens when FCP X gets a new paid feature (that should have been there from the start)? Do you have to dish out another $299? With this new Mac App store distribution BS I hardly see any upgrade pricing.

My girlfriend just got her FCP X refund. She's no pro, but as a final project for her masters she had to shoot and edit a documentary. FCP X came out just before she started editing. She bought it thinking that she'll be able to do all her editing at home instead of spending countless hours in school's FCP 7 labs. That was the idea.... until she got into importing all her Panasonic P2 footage...rest is history.

Even from a non-pro perspective, Apple pissed on every single FCP 7 user. They really need to use some of those magnetic powers on their brain cells - they're completely out of sync with reality.

I don't know whether I should be happy or sad to see that I am not the only one. I am no pro either. Just want to create some slightly better looking DVD's than average from all the old footage that I have lying around on DV tapes (family stuff).

In the past, iMove 6 did this job, at least to some extent. When iMovie '08 arrived, I switched to FCP. Now FCP X is a dead end for me as well.

My wife is a teacher. We are going to buy premiere + encore with an educational discount. We are halfway the 30-day trial now. Looks very familiar. Today we got the official letter from school stating that she works there, so we are all set...

Quite annoying that Apple won't support this kind of thing, even though they easily can (i.e. they did).
 
I believe the lack of communication, while creating FCPX through now... IS the communication. Translation: Apple is done with the pro market.

Once you accept that, FCPX looks quite good, if not brilliant.

Where is the evidence? their communication regarding FCP 7 was just as crap just as previous communication regarding releases were just as utterly crap - the only major difference is that FCPX is a complete re-write and not feature complete. Again, their long term plan is to get feature parity with FCP7 but because FCPX was a complete re-write they couldn't do everything on day one just as QuickTime X in Snow Leopard was a complete re-write thus features were missing but now appearing in Lion.
 
And that is a good thing.

Why should I have to pay extra for Apple to include something like Export to Tape which I will never use? Those that need it can go get the plug in.

Agree. A modular approach is more modern than an all-in-one solution.

Especially for software with a thriving plug-in community, just like Photoshop, Wordpress...

Important is a high quality core application and Final Cut Pro X seems to be very promising in that.
 
@Ol'MacUser

Hi! I'm a pro who holds out hope for improvements from Apple and really anyone who wants to add valuable functionality to FCP X..

I openly use Premiere but still prefer to work in FCP 7 for the time being. Not so much the Avid though.. learned on Xpress Pro and Media Composer.. both great pieces of software, but I just never really got along with them.

I really enjoy all of the writing skills practice you went through to say nothing at all really, except to assume that anyone who has any notion to defend this app in its stages of infancy must be an emasculated fan-boy.

Who was it that was being arrogant again?
 
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