Apple to Allow Alternative Payment Systems in App Store in South Korea

[AppliedMicro]

Yes that’s exactly the model that is used.

Apple does permit Netflix and Spotify to have in app purchases, both companies just choose not to have them.

And what about apps that don’t have in-app purchases - either because Apple permits them not to (Netflix, Spotify)

Netflix does have in-app subscriptions.
They‘ve had them since at least November.

Edit: so does Spotify (at least in my region)

 

[mrochester]

Netflix does have in-app subscriptions.
They‘ve had them since at least November.

Great, about time Netflix introduced IAPs!

 

[Sophisticatednut]

The fee is not forced, no one needs to make iOS apps. Developers can choose to not make iOS apps. Developers don’t need to pay Apple any fees if they don’t make iOS apps. Just like I don’t need to buy a loaf of bread.

Ive never understood this concept of developers being forced to develop for iOS. In a post above someone even said Apple needs developers more than developers need Apple. That would suggest developers can very easily ignore iOS and therefore not pay any fees to Apple at all.

Yes it is.
If you want to develop for Microsoft you have multiple options, develop for google and you have multiple options.

But developing for apple and you must pay their fee. And the fact apple is dominating the market of two “forces” developers to make apps for iOS to stay competitive to other developers. This gives apple powerful market influences the EU regulators sees as dangerous to the free market. This isn’t the USA. Contracts can’t contain whatever you want and you can’t do whatever you want just because people pay you.

 

[mrochester]

Yes it is.
If you want to develop for Microsoft you have multiple options, develop for google and you have multiple options.

But developing for apple and you must pay their fee. And the fact apple is dominating the market of two “forces” developers to make apps for iOS to stay competitive to other developers. This gives apple powerful market influences the EU regulators sees as dangerous to the free market. This isn’t the USA. Contracts can’t contain whatever you want and you can’t do whatever you want just because people pay you.

Apple being one of two viable platforms is not Apples fault. Thats the fault of the failed smartphone operating system market.

That’s where the regulation is needed so that we have multiple vertically integrated companies with multiple different operating systems to choose from.

That way Apple is no longer just one of two, but one of 5,6,7, and developers can then more freely ignore Apple if they don’t like the terms of the developer agreement.

We should solve the actual problem, not cripple the business of a successful business.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I don’t think iOS has a dominant position in Europe.

They are very dominating and therefore heavily regulated. What they could do when they where small isn’t the same when they’re bigger.

Mobile OS market share Europe 2010-2023| Statista

Since overtaking iOS in 2013 to become Europe’s most popular mobile operating system, Android has managed to increase its share of the market in each of the following years.

www.statista.com

 

[mrochester]

They are very dominating and therefore heavily regulated. What they could do when they where small isn’t the same when they’re bigger.
View attachment 1942361

Mobile OS market share Europe 2010-2023| Statista

Since overtaking iOS in 2013 to become Europe’s most popular mobile operating system, Android has managed to increase its share of the market in each of the following years.

www.statista.com

That’s revenue share. We need the market share to see if they are dominant or not.

I’ve looked it up, iOS has a ~30% market share in Europe.

 

[icanhazmac]

I'll say it again

In-app purchases of stuff you are not a man-in-the-middle distributor of, and you aren't doing the payment processing anymore. What entitles you to ANY money?

Walmart only gets the initial magazine purchase, not a cut of the subscription made from the included postcard.
Target only gets the initial iPhone sale, not a part of your app purchases or your Apple Fitness subscription fees.

Why should digital be any different? Its still a mob shakedown. Nice app you've got there, it would be a real shame if something happened to it.

Walmart doesn’t have a bunch of free items on their shelves that consumers pay for elsewhere. Most apps are free With IAP.

 

[Xtir]

Apple is going to make sure it gets paid, politicians will complain because that was not what they intended and we’ll see new legislation attempts. It’s all very predictable.

Yep, that’s wat happened to macos.. o wait?

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Apple being one of two viable platforms is not Apples fault. Thats the fault of the failed smartphone operating system market.

That is of zero interest of EU regulators.

That’s where the regulation is needed so that we have multiple vertically integrated companies with multiple different operating systems to choose from.

Regulators can’t make a business viable, just prevent abuse by the dominating ones, or force consumer choices to be available to stimulate innovation

That way Apple is no longer just one of two, but one of 5,6,7, and developers can then more freely ignore Apple if they don’t like the terms of the developer agreement.

That’s not relevant, choice of an illegal contract is still illegal. I’m sorry but business rights is not a thing here outside if individual rights.

We should solve the actual problem, not cripple the business of a successful business.

Then apple need to prove it’s better to cripple the market. Being successful comes with responsibilities as well, and isn’t an excuse to be allowed to as you wishes.

Apple isn’t any more important business than any other in EU

 

[AppliedMicro]

In a post above someone even said Apple needs developers more than developers need Apple. That would suggest developers can very easily ignore iOS and therefore not pay any fees to Apple at all.

They can‘t. Wanne create a paid dating app that is for Android only? That‘s hardly viable.

There are a few „developers“ that could get away with ignoring Apple and it would probably hurt Apple. Namely Netflix, Amazon Kindle. Spotify… not anymore. The concessions Apple has made for them, namely the very existence of so-called (arbitrarily defined) „reader“ app, are telling.

Apple being one of two viable platforms is not Apples fault. Thats the fault of the failed smartphone operating system market.

Competition law and its rulings and enforcement is rarely about fault.

Point being: It‘s not about penalising or punishing Apple for something they‘re at fault. It‘s about prohibiting practices that are harmful to competition and choice.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

That’s revenue share. We need the market share to see if they are dominant or not.

I’ve looked it up, iOS has a ~30% market share in Europe.

I posted both in the same response.
And both are extremely important.
One shows revenue share of purchases made on platforms and the other is share of the platform. If iOS wasn’t dominating then EU wouldn’t regulate or investigate them.

 

[mrochester]

That is of zero interest of EU regulators.

Regulators can’t make a business viable, just prevent abuse by the dominating ones, or force consumer choices to be available to stimulate innovation

That’s not relevant, choice of an illegal contract is still illegal. I’m sorry but business rights is not a thing here outside if individual rights.


Then apple need to prove it’s better to cripple the market. Being successful comes with responsibilities as well, and isn’t an excuse to be allowed to as you wishes.

Apple isn’t any more important business than any other in EU

But we aren’t talking about illegal contracts here, we are talking about legal contracts that some on one side of the contract doesn’t like.

Regulation should stimulate increased consumer choice by making the android business model illegal. Make it so that android is not the only viable choice for every company other than Apple.

That will solve this ‘problem’ entirely, and give consumers a load more choice.

 

[djphat2000]

It will or won‘t go down, depending on how much Apple is going to get away with charging for the transaction anyway. I wouldn’t be shocked if they were still aiming for 15% or 20% (at least for non-subscription in-app purchases - which would probably not result in much lower consumer prices).

I'm sure they know exactly how much less it would cost to do the transaction outside of their current paywall. So if they charged the 15% for under $1 million in yearly sales. And the outside transaction fee to the dev is 2%. They lower the cost to 13%.

They can also do the math and see what they compare with vs Google Play. If the App is doing better on Google overall, and they charge 11%. They could try going to 10.5% or whatever to undercut the Playstore all around. Yes, it's a race to the bottom, but to avoid the "collusion" complaints that will surely come if they just matched 11%.
They could also offer additional benefits to the customer for using ApplePay. AKA discounts 1-5% off or cash back. More assurances that transactions are well protected and fully refundable in the event you don't like what you bought or for whatever reason they allow you to get a refund.

In the end, they will figure out a more universal percentage to extract from the transaction if it's on their end or via third party. They will break even or end up better off.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Apple being one of two viable platforms is not Apples fault. Thats the fault of the failed smartphone operating system market.

as an example.
If you drive down the road 200km/h

And a bunch of other cars that drove 110km/h and crashed.

The law doesn’t care that you didn’t cause the crash, you still driving recklessly breaking the law as a threat to other cars. Irrespective if you are the richest man or not

Here's Why A Dude From Sweden Received A $1 Million Speeding Ticket

Despite Europe having the famous German Autobahn, that doesn’t mean other parts of the continent don’t levy some hefty fines for speeding.

www.hotcars.com

 

[mrochester]

as an example.
If you drive down the road 200km/h

And a bunch of other cars that drove 110km/h and crashed.

The law doesn’t care that you didn’t cause the crash, you still driving recklessly breaking the law as a threat to other cars. Irrespective if you are the richest man or not

Here's Why A Dude From Sweden Received A $1 Million Speeding Ticket

Despite Europe having the famous German Autobahn, that doesn’t mean other parts of the continent don’t levy some hefty fines for speeding.

www.hotcars.com

But Apple aren’t breaking the law…

There seems to be an assumption of guilt that hasn’t yet been found. And the only way being suggested to make what Apple currently does illegal is to change the law to make it so.

 

[djphat2000]

Things like Apple Connect, app reviews, payment processing, documentation, iOS update and development, Xcode are primarily tools for app developers and therefore they should be maintained by the yearly developer subscription fee.

If they didn’t have that developer subscription fee I could see your point tbf.

They have a fee but, it's very low. This allows those that are not going to make much money off the App to at least have a low point of entry. If it works out great, but then Apple makes its cut as you make more. They make a little off the fee if you don't. No harm no foul.

Doing it where the subscription price was higher, less would try to get in as the costs are more than they are willing to lose on. If I have to get a Mac, and pay a fee for the tools. I could make an app that doesn't make enough money to cover the costs. So I may not take the risk. If the price is low to get in, I'm more likely to take the risk.

 

[djphat2000]

Android already allows 3rd party stores and sideloading, so Google doesn't really need to do anything. Don't like Google's way, just sideload.

Don't like Apple's way, just get android.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

But we aren’t talking about illegal contracts here, we are talking about legal contracts that some on one side of the contract doesn’t like.

We are. By definition apples developers contract is illegal if it stops them from doing legal acts such as using an alternative payment method.

Regulation should stimulate increased consumer choice by making the android business model illegal. Make it so that android is not the only viable choice for every company other than Apple.

That will solve this ‘problem’ entirely, and give consumers a load more choice.

That has nothing to do with apple and would be a separate regulation if deemed necessary (as it has been on some parts on google)

If apple is forced to allow third party payment options then consumers will get more choice AND apple is forced to innovate.

Straight up win/win

And Google will be barred from firing phone developers to bundle google services with their devices.

Antitrust: Commission fines Google €4.34 billion for illegal practices regarding Android mobile devices to strengthen dominance of Google's search engine

The European Commission has fined Google €4.34 billion for breaching EU antitrust rules. Since 2011, Google has imposed illegal restrictions on Android device manufacturers and mobile network operators to cement its dominant position in general internet search.

ec.europa.eu

And this

Antitrust: Commission opens formal investigation against Google in relation to Android mobile operating system

The European Commission has opened formal proceedings against Google to investigate in-depth if the company’s conduct in relation to its An

ec.europa.eu

So it’s already underway

• requiring manufacturers to pre-install the Google Search app and browser app (Chrome), as a condition for licensing Google’s app store (the Play Store);
• making payments to certain large manufacturers and mobile network operators on condition that they exclusively pre-installed the Google Search app on their devices; and
• preventing manufacturers wishing to pre-install Google apps from selling even a single smart mobile device running on alternative versions of Android that were not approved by Google.

Why the Android antitrust case matters to consumers

The Android antitrust case matters to consumers because part of Google's success is derived from pushing rivals out of the market.

www.beuc.eu

 

[mrochester]

We are. By definition apples developers contract is illegal if it stops them from doing legal acts such as using an alternative payment method.

That has nothing to do with apple and would be a separate regulation if deemed necessary (as it has been on some parts on google)

If apple is forced to allow third party payment options then consumers will get more choice AND apple is forced to innovate.

Straight up win/win

And Google will be barred from firing phone developers to bundle google services with their devices.

Antitrust: Commission fines Google €4.34 billion for illegal practices regarding Android mobile devices to strengthen dominance of Google's search engine

The European Commission has fined Google €4.34 billion for breaching EU antitrust rules. Since 2011, Google has imposed illegal restrictions on Android device manufacturers and mobile network operators to cement its dominant position in general internet search.

ec.europa.eu

Antitrust: Commission opens formal investigation against Google in relation to Android mobile operating system

The European Commission has opened formal proceedings against Google to investigate in-depth if the company’s conduct in relation to its An

ec.europa.eu

But by that definition just about every contract would be illegal. My rented property had a contract that said the tenant couldn’t paint the walls. Her painting walls is perfectly legal so my contract with her would be illegal by your definition. This is clearly nonsense… it’s my property so I get to decide what happens. Just like it’s Apple’s property so they get to decide what happens.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Don't like Apple's way, just get android.

Don’t like market regulation exit the market. Simply as that.

 

[mrochester]

Don’t like market regulation exit the market. Simply as that.

Apple won’t exit the market, they’ll just take a slightly lower commission to account for them no longer needing to pay for payment processing.

 

[KindJamz]

Apple should threaten to pull out of South Korea. Lol. Like that would ever happen. Apple talks a great game,but backs right down when it comes to losing some sales.

 

[Kazgarth]

That’s revenue share. We need the market share to see if they are dominant or not.

I’ve looked it up, iOS has a ~30% market share in Europe.

It's more like 45-55%, especially in rich EU countries.

Mobile Operating System Market Share Sweden | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of mobile operating systems in Sweden based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

Mobile Operating System Market Share Belgium | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of mobile operating systems in Belgium based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

Mobile Operating System Market Share United Kingdom | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of mobile operating systems in United Kingdom based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

 

[Sophisticatednut]

But by that definition just about every contract would be illegal. My rented property had a contract that said the tenant couldn’t paint the walls. Her painting walls is perfectly legal so my contract with her would be illegal by your definition. This is clearly nonsense… it’s my property so I get to decide what happens. Just like it’s Apple’s property so they get to decide what happens.

actually that would be an illegal clauses and not enforceable where I live. Good catch.

Only things enforceable would be the painting can’t be to “weird” or I could be forced to pay for the landlord repainting the walls when you move.

Unfortunately it’s not apples property. When I buy an iPhone it’s now my property and there is nothing apple can legally do to force me to do anything.

 

[mrochester]

It's more like 45-55%, especially in rich EU countries.

Mobile Operating System Market Share Sweden | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of mobile operating systems in Sweden based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

Mobile Operating System Market Share Belgium | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of mobile operating systems in Belgium based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

Mobile Operating System Market Share United Kingdom | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of mobile operating systems in United Kingdom based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

Those links don’t work.

Android vs iOS Market Share 2020: Stats and Facts | MobileApps.com

Is Android or iOS more popular? Short answer, Android. Long answer, it depends. Although the global Android vs iOS market share statistics name Android as the...

www.mobileapps.com