Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
In 2012, an iPhone 5 off contract would set you back $649.

Today, you can buy an iPhone 7 for $449 and an XR for $749.

China and India aside, Apple is hitting all the "price points."

The iPhone 7 is three generations ago, not sure why you included it.

Also, I wouldn't consider the Xr an equivalent to the iPhone 5 at their respective launches, since the iPhone was the Flagship device, and the XR is not.

The XR would be closer to the SE when it launched, since the other the SE and XR were the cheapest of their generations at their launches and they both shared a lot of the features and specs of flagship devices when they were launched. Also both had some flagship features missing.

So, the SE at launch was $400, the XR is almost doubled.
The iPhone 5 was $649, and the XS is $999.

China and India aside, Apple is hitting all the "price points." The nonsense bandied about on this forum is pitched by self-entitled people who think a new iPhone every year should be accorded to them as a matter of right.

I never minded the Apple Tax in the past, because I always believed that Apple has great HW, and superior software to go with that HW that made it worth the premium price. But over the past 5ish years, things have changed.

The gap between the quality of Apple's products and the competitiors' products is narrowing, and Apple's prices are no longer a reflection of their products' quality.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9081094
As of now, the only thing that I will see for the next generation iPhone is a whopping 50% price hike with next to no improvements other than internals.
 
So, we know that they've already adjusted production and shipments (inventory), and now they're at least being cautious with hiring (payroll).

What's interesting is Google is building our another location down in Tribeca here in NYC and expanding from their Chelsea headquarters. How is Apple going to even remotely compete against Google for hiring especially when Amazon opens HQ2 in Long Island City?

Apple being cautious right now is not the best time when the other tech companies are offering more lucrative benefits.

So, there are challenges and potential for growth on the horizon.

As a software engineer, the problem I have with this statement is the growth challenges that Apple is facing are just not very interesting to tackle. If I had to join a large corp, I'd look at Google/Microsoft over Apple any day. That goes for a lot of other sw engineers as well. Their small product portfolio makes it not as interesting as other companies.

One thing about Tim Cook. Could anyone be as innovative and creative as Steve Jobs? Steve probably hated companies that had huge "tech" divisions, but never produced anything. He found a way to sort of mash the heads together of technical departments, and creative departments, to focus on single products that disrupt the marketplace. In fact, I think a lot of the more "rude" or crazier things Steve did were a refusal to allow Apple to become like those companies who never make anything, and he probably had to take some extreme positions on corporate issues to make that point over and over.

Don't get me wrong Steve had a lot of good ideas, but he also had some bad ones. He happened to be more focused on innovation and tech and less about pleasing shareholders. The Apple today would be very different if Steve was still around. I think they would have a larger portfolio of products and a much more vast ecosystem, but obviously unappealing to people on this forum that continually brag about Apple's revenue. The momentum right before his passing was heading in that direction, but now it's just stagnating to mass niche products with some overlapping synergy.

Just think how much worse things could be, if you didn't have someone competent like Tim Cook to take over...We'll see I guess!

Or it could've been how much better things could be? Or perhaps a little of both. Tim Cook is competent, but I would have loved to see someone else at the helm to take more risks on technology and truly surprise the tech community.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9081094
We’ve hit the point of smartphones where it’s not going to grow.

Like the computer market it will now be a steady up and down. Apple needs to focus on the iPhone lasting a long time and being a great product. Something Steve always talked about. If the product is truely great people will keep coming back.
 
You should all do your bit, stop by your local store and buy a lightning cable or a dongle. Every cent counts!
Actually using Apple Pay whenever available for every purchase you make would be a great start. If you buy an Apple dongle with Apple Pay, the better !
 
I never minded the Apple Tax in the past, because I always believed that Apple has great HW, and superior software to go with that HW that made it worth the premium price. But over the past 5ish years, things have changed.

The gap between the quality of Apple's products and the competitiors' products is narrowing, and Apple's prices are no longer a reflection of their products' quality.

I completely agree with this. This year I'm trying a Windows 10 2-in-1 laptop because it was half the price of Apple's products and had current-gen. internals. And it's not bad. Tablet mode needs some tweeks but, frankly, the overall experience is positive. I can casually read with the keyboard folded behind, or flip it around and have a highly productive multi-window environment, or connect a single USB-C cable to my larger monitor to power the laptop as well as provide video/audio out and a USB hub. The entire setup cost less than an iPad Pro with keyboard folio and pencil (which this laptop also included).

Apple's product line is cluttered and unfocused. Their hardware (on the laptops and desktops) dated and gimmicky. Their prices too high (even for them).
 
my wish: one iPhone per year, one iPad per year, big Mac update every 2 years. Focus the manpower on limited devices and OS.

> the more items you put on the market, that means the less confidence you have on each.<
 
angela ahrendts' concepts are tombstones and mausoleums.

apple is not burberry.

keep clean, sleek retail architecture (which she herself does not control even now), but less costly locations without the glitz that she has been in charge of.

tim, get off the cool-aid you have been on.
get back to creating and delivering on schedule great products we want.

get back to thinking different.
delivering on schedule doesn’t always mean you’re delivering great products. However, if you’re having a hard time delivering great products, you’re probably having a hard time delivering on schedule. And honestly, if they lose faith in what they’re doing, they’re gunna ship crap on time. So if you think they’re not doing great now, shipping schedules is not what’s really hurting them.
 
As the old saying goes, the fish stinks from the head.

Tim Cook behaves like an aging C-player corporate welfare type who doesn't understand technology and who might not even be interested in it. He only seems intent on milking the company for all it's worth in the short term so he can reap millions of dollars in stock grants, all the while mortgaging the future of the company. Putrid rot has set in throughout every product line, hardware and software alike.

Saying that the man is an empty suit might be too harsh, but he is definitely in the wrong job.

Tim Cook - who has been with Apple (a tech company) since 1998 (that's 20+ years) - doesn't understand technology and might not even be interested in it? Give me a break. He's contributed to the tech revolution that is the last 20 years. If he didn't like technology, he would have left Apple long ago.

If you think Tim is in it for the money, think about this: AAPL was down 5% in Tim's first 5 years with the company. If he were only in it for the money he would have bailed.

How is he mortgaging the future of the company if they have hundreds of billions in cash? The only putrid rot is in your acusations.
[doublepost=1547703891][/doublepost]
The reason people aren't upgrading is that they don't need a new phone. Since 2014 all high-end smartphones have had all the features most people could ever want. I know many people who used to upgrade frequently and now hang onto their phones until they break. That's a huge shift from the early days of the smartphone.

I'm with you on the upgrade frequency. I'm on the Apple Upgrade program and can't wait to get off of it. Carriers are offering 2 for 1 while I'm still paying full price for an iPhone 8. Thinking about paying this one off, getting an XR and calling it quits for a couple years. Ouch, that was hard to type out...

The other side of this argument is realized when you look at all the people still holding onto their iPhone 5/6/7.
 
Once again the Apple Investor spin machine is out in force! I reckon you should disclose if you’re an investor (and how much) in your sig. I’m not so my opinions are 100% consumer-oriented.

Blaming the battery discount is a petty excuse. Accept you pushed the prices too high, Tim, and that the whole reason for the battery discount in the first place was because of deceptive and immoral behaviour!

How many people really go: “You know, I kind of feel like a new iPhone, but I might just get a battery instead!”. If that makes it feel like a new phone that’s a bit of a concern!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 9081094
Sounds like pretty dodgy reporting. Macrumors makes it sound like they had a big meeting saying sales were down and then all the managers at Apple were like, “Oh crap! We better start innovating now!”
 
Sounds like pretty dodgy reporting. Macrumors makes it sound like they had a big meeting saying sales were down and then all the managers at Apple were like, “Oh crap! We better start innovating now!”

Actually, it's Bloomberg that decided to sit on this 'news' until now. If it were said the way the article says, this would have come out the day of the meeting when everyone and their brother was AAPL bashing.
 
Make a good phone and this won't be a problem... you know; no notch, put in a headphone jack, use the standard USB-C port... things like that.

That’s what Samsung phones are like and they are selling even worse. It’s clearly not what people want.
 
I disagree.

Enjoy android then but they are even struggling selling phones

Millions more still love the iPhone. Rather foolish for you to say they don’t make great phones as they clearly do. Apple make the smoothest performance you can get on devices Hense why many aren’t upgrading as often because older phones are lasting a lot longer. Unlike android devices
 
Last edited:
Billions upon billions of untaxed cash sitting in Ireland, but let's have a hiring freeze to appease investors.

How about just cutting the prices of Macs and iPhone?
You don't need to hire new people if you are not selling as much. There is no work for them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Abazigal
They're reducing hiring, not firing people, at least it isn't mention in the article. So basically they're not growing as they used to, but not letting people go. I wonder if the hiring freeze is only for new jobs or if in some cases an employee quits and it isn't replaced by a new hire.
 
The problem with new iPhones are old iPhones being so good, along with ludicrous pricing.

old iphones are NOT good! pls stop that fairytale, theres just NO innovation going on. my 4s kicks every new iphones butt!
unfortunately i cant use it anymore because they made the maps and navigation extra slow and unusable, once it was fine.

other than that, there is no new feature really worth the price or upgrade, everything just fancy frenzy!
 
Simply another example that Apple is in a new Medieval Period, like the one it found itself after Steve's departure.
A period where marketeers, accountants and numbers ruled the company... A period where alot of technical mistakes were made, but the company was too blind to acknowledge them.
The iPhone XR is the typical example of a product created after the request from people dealing with numbers, and was delivered as a half baked idea (overpriced, underspec'ed)
If Apple wants to innovate, the 500$ range offers alot of opportunities for them, to generate a new revenue stream (China, India and even in South-East Europe) and sustain their numbers
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlumaMac
I think this is a healthy problem to have, I think it could spur some innovation and focus on getting some technology to the iPhone in 2019 that might have taken til 2020 or 2021 to adopt.

Also, in every company, two big risks are "inventory levels" and "payroll." Even for a company with tons of hoarded profits, you have to always watch both. Apple is one of those companies that Steve Jobs knew should "think big" but "act small" as far as acting like a "small company" when purchasing and dealing with inventory levels.

So, we know that they've already adjusted production and shipments (inventory), and now they're at least being cautious with hiring (payroll).

No matter how much profit is built up, you have to play by the budgets you have for this year. So, I'm sure they're thinking about how to adjust to a slowing of revenue, at least for the first two quarters.

I do agree that Apple is making iPhones with materials and finishing that make it last well over the 1-2 year cycle that people usually upgrade. iPhones 5 years old still work fine for people who just want the phone to work, and have the basic e-mail/texts they normally rely on. I also agree that, once a phone goes well above $1,000, like $1,200-1,400 for the top top model, it becomes a bigger decision. I'm an early adopter, so, I try to forget about the price and hope that the monthly charges aren't too high!

For people who say that Apple hasn't created a product under Tim Cook, I kind of disagree. I get that products may have been planned out 2-3 years after Steve had to leave. But, AirPods are extremely well made and have captured the market, even with younger kids who gravitate towards non-Apple phones, still love AirPods. Also, Apple Watch has really changed and made more meaningful upgrades the past two generations.

HomePod probably needs a major version 2 upgrade like the Watch needed.

I love the new iPad Pro, but even those get very close to $2,000 or more if you want the really top models, and that's hard to budget for.

So, there are challenges and potential for growth on the horizon. Can an iPhone incorporate enough new technology and features to really give them enough of a gap from competitors that they're the clear choice? I think the competitors have caught up a little bit. Also, could they make a really low-cost phone for the China/India market that competes with home grown phones and cellular plans?

One thing about Tim Cook. Could anyone be as innovative and creative as Steve Jobs? Steve probably hated companies that had huge "tech" divisions, but never produced anything. He found a way to sort of mash the heads together of technical departments, and creative departments, to focus on single products that disrupt the marketplace. In fact, I think a lot of the more "rude" or crazier things Steve did were a refusal to allow Apple to become like those companies who never make anything, and he probably had to take some extreme positions on corporate issues to make that point over and over.

Tim knows product chain management, and, has a conscience about how a company should act. Just think how much worse things could be, if you didn't have someone competent like Tim Cook to take over. If the smart phone market has truly plateaued, and we're looking at a race to become a "commodity," then I think would be as much a challenge for Tim Cook as it would have been for Steve Jobs. Can Tim make some magic happen? We'll see I guess!

reading your post was really disgusting for my mind ... just my opinion! nearly everything you say i have a complete different view if not the extreme opposite! but i dont wanna write that much anymore - just try it yourself - try the opposite of everything you said - maybe it changes something in your reception of the world!
 
Actually apple make great phones which is why sales are down. Many are happy with their older devices that they don’t see the point in upgrading as they do what they are suppose to
Or they don't do so great phones, phones lacking in several areas. After switching to a P20 Pro last spring (left iPhone in 2016, but still use them from time to time), what would I get if I were to get an iPhone today compared to Huawei P20 Pro?

1. Worse battery life.
2. Worse and less versatile camera.
3. No beautiful Twilight gradient finishes.
4. Locked down iOS with less freedom to customize and artificial limitations.
5. Significantly longer charge time even with Apple's faster chargers versus Huawei Super Charge. Despite higher Apple prices I have to pay extra for the charger and headphone dongle.
6. No IR-blaster
7. No universal USB-C
8. No fingerprint scanner.

9. At best equal build quality (imho).

10. Better A12 CPU, which speed I don't really need. Kirin 970 does everything I need without delays.
11. Probably better calibrated screen and a little higher dpi (on XS->)
12. Way better taptic engine. No comparison.
13. Advanced FaceID, something I don't care for and after trying both sides, still prefer TouchID and other well working FPS. Actually, Huawei's variant in P20 works better than all TouchID phones I've tried, especially with damp/dirty fingers.
14. Wireless charging.

Even if Apple lowered prices, they still don't offer enough in several key areas to make me want to switch back.

I've bought 3 Huawei devices last 2 years. They could've been iPhones instead if Apple offered more innovation and less stagnant designs, yet increasing prices. I love to switch phones but I want it to have some other purpose than just emptying my wallet.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 9081094
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.