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Apple to Discontinue Custom 5G Modem Development, Claim Reports
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I’m pretty sure they just hired some people from Qualcomm. Sucks to be them right now.
In hindsight probably all a ruse to get a better deal from Corning.
yes. this.
im not an engineer. but nobody in this thread has been able to articulate why modem development is so difficult.
i understand the following:
1 qualcomm likely has some great people
2 qualcomm likely has recognised patents that maybe are very broad, and therefore difficult to get around
so, in a nutshell, are the reasons why apple cant succeed in a credible 5G modem just attributable to these two factors?
dont waste time commenting if you attribute any part of it to some kind of apple internal management problem. im not buying that. sorry.
is the technical knowledge needed for modems advancing so quickly that companies newer to the field haven't been able to skate to where the puck will be? whereas qualcomm is so strong that its able to continually develop newer ways that move the goal posts even further? is it a case where whatever apple's group has been able to develop that its still a generation or two behind qualcomm?
They should buy chips from Motorola or whoever Motorola used a few years back. My workgroup has a diverse set of phones that used to include Motorola. It was always kind of embarrassing to me (iPhone user) how much better the modems in the Motorola phones were. They could make calls, use data, etc. in places others could not. And this was not just a one time thing. We saw it over and over in many areas that had less than great signal. They were in another league.
Apple is discontinuing in-house modem development after several unsuccessful attempts to perfect its own custom 5G modem chip, according to unconfirmed reports coming out of Asia.
According to the operator of news aggregator account "yeux1122" on the Naver blog, supply chain sources related to Apple's 5G modem departments claim that the company's attempts to develop its own modem have failed so far, and that Apple is in the process of winding down its years-long investment in the project. Separately, the leaker known as @Tech_Reve today said they had heard similar reports from a Japanese supply chain source.
It's too early to say if the latest reports are accurate, but according to a September Wall Street Journal report, Apple's attempts to develop its own modem chip have been hampered by major issues related to unrealistic goals, an inadequate understanding of the challenges involved, and unusable prototypes.
Apple's plan to design its own in-house modem led to the hiring of thousands of engineers: Apple acquired the majority of Intel's smartphone modem business in 2019, and as it filled the project's ranks with Intel engineers and others hired from Qualcomm, company executives set a goal to have the modem chip ready for fall 2023.
Earlier this month, Bloomberg's Mark Gurman reported that Apple was continuing to run into troubles in its attempt to develop a 5G modem to replace Qualcomm's 5G modems in the iPhone and other products. The modem chip launch was said to have been postponed until the end of 2025 or early 2026, but Apple was reportedly still planning to introduce the technology in a version of the low-cost iPhone SE.
Development on a modem chip was said to be in the early stages, and it "may lag behind the competition by years." One version in development does not support faster mmWave technology, and Apple has also run into issues with the Intel code that it has been working with. Rewrites have been required, and adding new features has been causing existing features to break, plus Apple has to be careful not to infringe on Qualcomm patents while developing the chip.
Despite delays, the company was thought to be continuing development because it is eager to end its expensive deal with Qualcomm. In 2017, Apple sued Qualcomm over alleged anticompetitive practices and $1 billion in unpaid royalty rebates. The two companies settled the lawsuit in 2019.
Apple's first modem chip was expected to be a standalone chip, but the company hoped to eventually develop a system-on-a-chip that would also cut out suppliers like Broadcom and give it more control over component development.
Article Link: Apple to Discontinue Custom 5G Modem Development, Claim Reports
Must be your problem. In LA I can consistently get 600mbps (5g uc)
even if apple makes their own modems, who the heck would want a gen-1 modem on their phone? Snapdragon is on, like, its 12th version
Oh, a lot of people knew it every time they got an iPhone with a "not Qualcomm" modem.
My personal opinion is just let Qualcomm do it. They are the best at it and it would have been hard to beat them, knowing how much Intel struggled. I hate all this, "lets make a custom chip in house" crap. Yeah I know... everything made in house would work even better since it's going into their own products, but you can't do that for everything. It's like Apple saying they will make their own screens. Just leave that to companies that are pros at it, like Samsung.
Qualcomm do seem to have a monopoly now, which is a problem. I can't see how that monopoly could be broken if even Apple can't do it despite spending billions on it. How are Samsung getting on with their modems??
You can't quite compare screens to modems, as Qualcomm have the industry bent over a barrel.
I mean, there aren’t many ways to do a modem without using existing patents….
Apple was likely trying to create a regular 5G modem that at least matches Qualcomm's n-1 product, using industry patents. I doubt they were trying to reinvent the wheel with a clean sheet design.
For whatever reason - poor leadership, lack of technical, or infighting - Apple wasn't able to meet the project requirements.
Looking at the big picture, 5G alone doesn't sell. Consumers don't choose iPhone for fast 5G. Android phones have faster 5G speeds, but so what? Cameras, security, and other software features sell. So why invest all this money and effort into developing a 5G baseband? Imagine if Apple had used this effort towards creating Siri-style ChatGPT or a folding iPhone instead. Johny Srouji's team would rather make the best chips for Vision Pro. Leadership made a painful but a correct decision to disconnect the modem project.
"please explain how Intel have always made inferior modems to that of Qualcomm", really, because Intel got lazy and management did not understand how fragile their position in the market was. They thought they owned it.
Oh boy, that sounds like Apple too. Hmmmm.
Why are you even here then? This, if true, is terrible news. Apple was attempting to integrate the modem into the SoC, and the power savings would have been HUGE. Moreover, they thought they could produce a better product and save money.
Yes, greed too. Greed is good, it’s what pushes companies to make newer, better products.
Yes but for the past few years, other than COVID bumps, sales numbers have been falling, especially in non-iPhone categories.
Exactly. I guess if they can’t do a 5G modem, there’s absolutely no hope for the Apple Car. It’s for the best really. They need to continue to focus on what has worked for years, producing Macs, iPhones and the rest. Their streaming service seems to be working well too. Let the experts like Samsung, SONY and Qualcomm do the rest to make those iPhones perform at their best.
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IMO a concerning trend with Apple.
They aren't able to expand into new technology segments anymore, they haven't been able to successfully develop a new category in almost a decade (Apple Watch).
The car is done for, modem might be cancelled as well.
The only new tech they have right now is Vision Pro.
If this turns out to be a flop, which I honestly expect it to at this point, Apple's ability to expand into new fields to counter falling demand for smartphones is questionable at best.
Maybe time to exit the stock after all and invest in different companies with more growth potential.
They aren't able to expand into new technology segments anymore, they haven't been able to successfully develop a new category in almost a decade (Apple Watch).
The car is done for, modem might be cancelled as well.
The only new tech they have right now is Vision Pro.
If this turns out to be a flop, which I honestly expect it to at this point, Apple's ability to expand into new fields to counter falling demand for smartphones is questionable at best.
Maybe time to exit the stock after all and invest in different companies with more growth potential.
5G became mainstream quickly and improved speeds/latency, so I agree that 5G wasn't a flop.
However, 5G had very little impact on how people use devices, it didn't expand the current possibilities at all.
Remember all the 5G hype articles about how it will change automotive, live events, allow for remote surgery etc? Literally nothing happened. Your cat pictures now take 0.3 to send instead of 0.6 seconds.
Apple... Doomed again. Because they'll need to purchase modem chips from Qualcomm. Like they've been doing in the past.