No, you're simply taking that comment out of context. They are not willing to make the tradeoffs for the iPhone even though they ****ing hate Qualcomm. A mountain of evidence supporting that claim is staring you in the face. But, continue to be pissed off about irrelevant nonsense.
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Apple to Discontinue Custom 5G Modem Development, Claim Reports
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That's assuming this report is correct. I still think it's worthwhile for Apple to pursue for other reasons;
It specifically says they're no long building a 5G modem.
It does not say that they are not entirely focusing their efforts on a 6G modem.
It does not say that they are not entirely focusing their efforts on a 6G modem.
A 5g modem is hardly a simple thing.
Typically standardized technology move forward by enhancing the previous gen. I doubt the 6G standard is transmitting/receiving data using a completely different paradigm.
Which begs the question, does the standard essentially matchup with what Qualcomm patented and vice versa? Seems so, which is awesome for them. But how is Samsung doing it or the intel attempt? Perhaps they licensed much of it.
Apple agrees with me, all those who were cheering this failed project on, Apple doesn't need to make every component. So many of you were justifying it for unsound reasons about cost and competition. No, Apple was just trying to be greedy to actually charge more. Switching to ARM did not make Macs any cheaper.
Spot-on.
So many people believe it's like designing CPU/GPU chips. There's a whole different area of expertise, namely modern digital communications systems engineering and algorithm development required before any chip design can take place.
Qualcomm's founders Andrew Viterbi, Irwin Jacobs and others wrote the book on the science of the above long ago. And have thousands of patents locking it up.
When Apple embarked on this project years ago I believed they'd never be able to pull it off on their own and not step on Qualcomm patents.
That intel buying surely looks good right now. There is a reason there aren't near the modems as their are GPU/CPU makers. Glad apple finally saw the light and we didn't end up with another subpar product like the intel model so they throttled the Qualcomm models to be slower.
Intel was supposedly so great. Why couldn't they further the business they bought into a new generation of products?
I wouldn't expect Apple to have more luck.
I’m not pissed off, and I happen to agree with you that Apple would not incorporate subpar components into their flagship product line, even if they came from in-house. But to attribute that to Apple’s goodwill (which seems to be what you were implying) is fallacious and laughable. Apple has made a business decision based on their bottom line. This time, in my opinion, it just happens to align with what’s best for customers.
Not sure if this adds anything, but I spoke with some Qualcomm engineers in Spring of this year and asked what they thought of Apple's efforts in this space (like are you worried about your job). They all agreed that they would have been shocked if Apple could really roll their own modem chip in the time frame of the past couple of years. They mentioned patents, technical knowledge and the costs surrounding the tools and testing. They also mentioned how many generations ahead they have already worked out. If Qualcomm has patents on the technologies and machines necessary to make or test the modem chips, it may be too much to overcome- cost and time wise. You could almost ask the same question about search engines, no one else until just this year (ChatGPT) came up with an equal or better search engine than Google?
Correction, their endgame is integrated on die a modem in A and M series chips. This rumor only talks to stopping work on 5G modems. 6G?
thanks for this insight.
to me, your post likely represents exactly what are the factors involved with this decision.
the logic makes sense from all perspectives: business, profit, tech, future proofing, and patents.
i also cant help but think, as has been pointed out in this thread by others, that anticipated gains on power savings (of battery) through chip integration (as apple would have been anticipating) might not have been possible to the extent that maybe apple was projecting.
that is truly unfortunate for us users. especially for the Watch, where any (20 minutes even) talk time on the current 4G modem drains the Watch battery so quickly.
under this scenario, what might be apple's best next option is to fund an internal qualcomm group/division/lab, that can achieve an integrated chip with modem design. and allow resulting patents to become qualcomm's intellectual property. no matter what condition the business relationship is between apple and qualcomm, they share a mutual interest in this.
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I remember an article several years ago basically saying because of Qaucomm's patents on 5G it would be almost impossible for Apple to work around them (Qualcomm designed them that way) and suggested they should ditch the 5G project and start working on 6G where they can establish their own patents etc. and have a reasonable chance to bring a good modem to market. Hopefully this is where they're at and 6G moves forward.
Does this mean Apple will never put cellular modems in MacBooks?
From listening to the podcast Acquired,
Qualcomm is merciless when it comes to how they approach royalty / licensing payments
overcast.fm
From listening to the podcast Acquired,
Qualcomm is merciless when it comes to how they approach royalty / licensing payments
Qualcomm — Acquired — Overcast
apple gonna get hit with the biggest anti trust lawsuit this side of Mississippi
Huawei, MediaTek and Intel all were able to design 5G modems yet somehow Apple is crippled by Qualcomm's patents?
Huawei’s, MediaTek’s, and Intel’s 5G modems were nowhere near as good as Qualcomm’s - most likely because of Qualcomm’s patents. If MediaTek etc. was as good (or better) than Qualcomm, that’s what Apple would be using. The only reason Apple is using Qualcomm’s modems is because they are the best out there.
RF is really, really hard. Unlike CPUs/GPUs that largely live in a digital-only realm (logic gates in a CPU/GPU are either on or off - I.e. allow current or don’t), RF has to bridge the divide b/w the analog and digital world. Not only that, but with something like a cellular modem, the amount of variables you need to account for are astronomical when compared to a CPU/GPU. With mmWave 5G (which has been a flop, whereas regular 5G has very much been a success - the two are often conflated but are largely separate from each other), something as simple as your hand can block the signal.
I have no doubts Apple could develop a perfectly fine 5G modem (or a BT or WiFi modem), but it’s really hard to develop something that is great. Apple isn’t going to switch from Qualcomm for an in-house design that is simply fine. If/when they make a switch, it will be because whatever alternative they choose (be it an in-house design or a chip from another company) will be better than what Qualcomm has to offer.
Spot-on and well said.
Way back I was an engineer at a small (10 person) startup that developed digital downconverters, digital upconverters, digital filters, QAM modulators/demodulators, digital pre-distortion for power amplifiers, etc ASICs. Our customers were focused on cellular telecom, defense/aerospace, instrumentation companies, research, etc.
At one point we considered developing modems for cellular telecom (on the basestation side, not handsets) and point-to-point RF communication links. We had both the communications systems engineering and chip design expertise - and were successful.
After some thought we came to the conclusion that would pretty much be insane as Qualcomm lawyers would eventually catch wind and analyze our designs, with the result of our company possibly facing legal action. Being a small company with relatively limited resources (and money) compared to Qualcomm, we put that idea to rest pretty quickly.
Thousands of engineers ... doing what exactly?
But if there is any truth to this... "cancelling 5G modem" means that they are switching to a "6G" modem! Go Apple, you can do it! We believe in you!!
But if there is any truth to this... "cancelling 5G modem" means that they are switching to a "6G" modem! Go Apple, you can do it! We believe in you!!
Intel's modem did not perform nearly as well, and heat was a problem. Apple only follows through on a product that meets their *strict* specifications. I bet you that Huawei and MediaTek have the same performance and heat issues. Qualcomm has the winning patents to keep them as the market dominator.