Apple to Eliminate Retail Box Software Inventory

[BaldiMac]

I guess I'm slightly confused because at times you seem to be saying the ad was just an ad and at other times you seem to be saying the ad was literal and IBM circa 1984 really was like Big Brother and the "entire information age" really was at stake.

You're confused because I haven't been commenting on the ad at all. This conversation has been about Jobs' description of the ad that you posted to start this conversation.

Besides being big what did IBM circa 1984 have to do with Big Brother?

It's right in the quote that you posted from Jobs. He saw IBM's bid to control the entire computer industry as key to the "entire information age." That was what Big Brother was about in the novel. Controlling all information. A surveillance society.

But controlling is.

Sure, but there is a huge difference between a company controlling it products, especially in a non-monopolistic market, and a government controlling it's people.

And, just to be clear about this once more, I'm not saying Apple is literally like Big Brother. I'm saying that w/in the context of the 1984 ad's rhetoric Apple (which is not literally like Big Brother) could replace IBM (which is also not literally like Big Brother) because Apple (in no small part to its strict, wall-garden approach) is in a very dominant position in emerging tech-based markets today in a similar way that IBM was in a very dominant position in emerging tech-based markets 25yrs ago.

Except that we were not talking about that. We were talking about Apple replacing IBM in Jobs' description of the ad that you posted. And the fact that Apple is not dominant in any significant market right now.

Especially when compared to the IBM of 1984. IBM and the clones had 50% of the computer market in 1984 and they were growing at an extraordinary rate. Apple and Commodore were their only significant competitors, and Commodore disappeared almost overnight. They were up around 90% by 1990. That's domination. Apple's 25% share of the smartphone market or 5% share of the computer market or even 60% share of the digital music player market don't compare. Even the 75% share in the "media tablet" market isn't domination. It's just first mover advantage. Obviously, that share is temporary and on the way down.

H-Y-P-E-R-B-O-L-E. Unless, of course, you believe Jobs literally considered IBM to be a real life incarnation of Orwell's Big Brother and that the fate of the world hinged on people buying Apple branded personal computers instead of IBM branded personal computers. You are right that it wasn't market share in a random industry. It was market share in the desktop computer industry which just happened to be the industry Apple was competing against IBM in hence the painting of Big Blue as evil and and Apple as the little underdog that was humanity's only hope.

I don't think Jobs saw IBM as a literal Big Brother, but, as evidenced by the quote you posted, he didn't see this as a simple David vs Goliath fight either. He literally saw the significance of computer industry to be key to the information age. He was right! Do we have an interoperable internet based on open standards if every computer on the planet is made by IBM? I doubt it.

Just humor me, but how exactly are you lumping Adobe in with MS in Google w/regards to trying to control information?

Adobe completely controls the format of a huge source of content on the internet.

 

[TPadden]

Daft idea. Not everyone has internet. Not everyone has internet good enough to download large amounts of software.

Nothing daft about it. No Internet probably cuts down on the need for purchasing "large amounts of software" .

Real shame if the one or two left would have to ride their horse (not everyone has vehicle) to the library (OK - not everyone has library) or McD's (pretty much everyone has McD's if they have a software store) to download.

 

[charlituna]

And, just to be clear about this once more, I'm not saying Apple is literally like Big Brother. I'm saying that w/in the context of the 1984 ad's rhetoric Apple (which is not literally like Big Brother) could replace IBM (which is also not literally like Big Brother) because Apple (in no small part to its strict, wall-garden approach) is in a very dominant position in emerging tech-based markets today in a similar way that IBM was in a very dominant position in emerging tech-based markets 25yrs ago.

IBM wasn't in a dominant position. It was THE position. Unlike now where you have choices. You don't have to go with Apple if you don't want to. and you won't be limited to ego puffed game machines calling themselves computers that don't do anything.

Even in my biz we have die hard Apple haters who insist on sticking with their AVID machines. They don't get a lot of work because no one wants to pay the fees to support the systems (they are mega costly to maintain these days). But hey that's on them. My boys and I are happy to take that gig and use our FCS, Maya and After Effects running Macs and PCs with a Linux render farm to earn that nice pay check.

 

[charlituna]

Apple? Start listening to your customers.

They do listen. All the time.

Especially ones who dropped more than $10,000 into your coffers last year alone.

Unfortunately for you and your egotistical "If you don't do it my way right now you are a moron" attitude, your $10k has been outvoted by the billions dropped by all the folks that don't care about blu-ray in macs, flash on an ipad etc.

 

[laurim]

Getting rid of optical drives is like getting rid of mailboxes since we have e-mail.

If my clients paid me by direct deposit, I COULD get rid of my mailbox because everything else I get is crap mail. I pay all my bills on auto, could go all-instant Netflix so I don't need a physical mailbox. Get with the times!

 

[xbjllb]

Unfortunately for you and your egotistical "If you don't do it my way right now you are a moron" attitude, your $10k has been outvoted by the billions dropped by all the folks that don't care about blu-ray in macs, flash on an ipad etc.

I didn't say they are morons. I said they will be going out of business for going for the most fickle of lowest common denominator audiences instead of after the faithful big buck audience.

And they will if they continue down the current path. Already the iCrap bubble in their bottom line has popped once. It will happen again and again, and last longer each time.

The only thing you can rely on is that idiots who ignore history will keep repeating it.

 

[LethalWolfe]

It's right in the quote that you posted from Jobs. He saw IBM's bid to control the entire computer industry as key to the "entire information age." That was what Big Brother was about in the novel. Controlling all information. A surveillance society.
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I don't think Jobs saw IBM as a literal Big Brother, but, as evidenced by the quote you posted, he didn't see this as a simple David vs Goliath fight either. He literally saw the significance of computer industry to be key to the information age. He was right!

So, which is it? Was Jobs really afraid for the future of the world or was it just marketing hyperbole? My vote is still for hyperbole.

Steve has also said that flash media isn't appropriate for MP3 players, no one would want to watch video on the iPod's tiny screen, and that no one reads anymore so products like the Kindle are fundamentally flawed. All of this was of course before Apple released the iPod Shuffle, the video iPod, and gave props to Kindle before saying the iPad was a better eReader. Jobs is more salesman than revolutionary. He's not fighting for the good of humanity he's fighting for the good of his company.

Do we have an interoperable internet based on open standards if every computer on the planet is made by IBM? I doubt it.

So in such dire circumstances Steve decided IBM didn't need to be battled on the mainframe front but on the desktop front because desktops are more important to maintaining an open society than the server backbones that make up the internet?

Especially when compared to the IBM of 1984. IBM and the clones had 50% of the computer market in 1984 and they were growing at an extraordinary rate. Apple and Commodore were their only significant competitors, and Commodore disappeared almost overnight. They were up around 90% by 1990. That's domination. Apple's 25% share of the smartphone market or 5% share of the computer market or even 60% share of the digital music player market don't compare. Even the 75% share in the "media tablet" market isn't domination. It's just first mover advantage. Obviously, that share is temporary and on the way down.

So Apple completely failed to stop IBM-compatible PCs (a market that became so crowded and competitive that IBM eventually backed out of it) and MS from capturing nearly 100% of the computer market yet the Orwellian dystopia never came to pass. Maybe Jobs was, ya know, exaggerating a little in the TV commercial?

Sure, but there is a huge difference between a company controlling it products, especially in a non-monopolistic market, and a government controlling it's people.

Like I said before, I don't think any of these companies we've talked about are literally like Big Brother. But in your opinion IBM 25yrs ago was an oppressive government, or on the verge of becoming an oppressive government?

Except that we were not talking about that. We were talking about Apple replacing IBM in Jobs' description of the ad that you posted. And the fact that Apple is not dominant in any significant market right now.

Hyperbole and we'll just have to agree to disagree with the significance of the changing computer and media dissemination landscapes and Apple's influence on both.

Adobe completely controls the format of a huge source of content on the internet.

So Adobe is 'evil' because of Flash? A web format that people are free to use or not to use at their leisure? Really? To use your own words, "What does that have to do with Big Brother? It just means they are big."

Even in my biz we have die hard Apple haters who insist on sticking with their AVID machines. They don't get a lot of work because no one wants to pay the fees to support the systems (they are mega costly to maintain these days). But hey that's on them. My boys and I are happy to take that gig and use our FCS, Maya and After Effects running Macs and PCs with a Linux render farm to earn that nice pay check.

Why are you equating Mac-haters w/Avid when most of Avid's cross-platform sales go to Mac users? Hell, when Avid wanted to drop Mac support 8 or 9 years ago it's Mac user base, it's dominant user base, started to break out the pitch forks and torches and Avid quickly back pedaled.


Lethal

 

[BaldiMac]

So, which is it? Was Jobs really afraid for the future of the world or was it just marketing hyperbole? My vote is still for hyperbole.

Steve has also said that flash media isn't appropriate for MP3 players, no one would want to watch video on the iPod's tiny screen, and that no one reads anymore so products like the Kindle are fundamentally flawed. All of this was of course before Apple released the iPod Shuffle, the video iPod, and gave props to Kindle before saying the iPad was a better eReader. Jobs is more salesman than revolutionary. He's not fighting for the good of humanity he's fighting for the good of his company.

So in such dire circumstances Steve decided IBM didn't need to be battled on the mainframe front but on the desktop front because desktops are more important to maintaining an open society than the server backbones that make up the internet?

So Apple completely failed to stop IBM-compatible PCs (a market that became so crowded and competitive that IBM eventually backed out of it) and MS from capturing nearly 100% of the computer market yet the Orwellian dystopia never came to pass. Maybe Jobs was, ya know, exaggerating a little in the TV commercial?

Like I said before, I don't think any of these companies we've talked about are literally like Big Brother. But in your opinion IBM 25yrs ago was an oppressive government, or on the verge of becoming an oppressive government?

Hyperbole and we'll just have to agree to disagree with the significance of the changing computer and media dissemination landscapes and Apple's influence on both.

Wow. You're just arguing crap at random and hoping something sticks. I've already said multiple times that Jobs was exaggerating. Marketing hyperbole. Whatever you want to call it.

The possibility that he discussed did not come to pass. IBM did not end up dominating. They failed in their attempt to control the clones. Windows became more important than the hardware.

It doesn't change the fact that Apple is nowhere near the position of IBM in 1984 in any market significant to the control of the world's information. That's what Jobs was talking about in the quote that you posted. It was a remote but plausible scenario brought up as a marketing point.

So Adobe is 'evil' because of Flash? A web format that people are free to use or not to use at their leisure? Really? To use your own words, "What does that have to do with Big Brother? It just means they are big."

I never said Adobe was evil. I just said that they were trying to control information. I didn't say that makes them Big Brother.

It really would make for a more productive discussion if you didn't try and make up what I think.

 

[charlituna]

I didn't say they are morons. I said they will be going out of business for going for the most fickle of lowest common denominator audiences instead of after the faithful big buck audience.

Or they won't go out of business at all. Every quarter Apple breaks records with unit sales, dollars, profit reports, stock value.

While you would love to see the bubble break to prove you are smarter than Jobs, Cook etc, it is equally possible that it won't and the trend will just keep going higher and higher

 

[linux2mac]

Or they won't go out of business at all. Every quarter Apple breaks records with unit sales, dollars, profit reports, stock value.

While you would love to see the bubble break to prove you are smarter than Jobs, Cook etc, it is equally possible that it won't and the trend will just keep going higher and higher

+1

The bubble is not bursting any time soon.