The quad-cores would be better on multithreaded tasks and the dual-cores would be better on single-threaded tasks.
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Apple to Introduce Cheaper Macs?
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Core 2 Quad Q9000 - $348
Core 2 Quad Q9100 - $841
The Q9000 comes in at 2.0 GHz but you get get double the cores.
Absolutely excellent points.
Buying a computer based on the hardware is so 1990's.
In all seriousness, I can understand the frustrations of many watching Apple move away from their needs with machines that provide less value when measured solely by the hardware. What I think is important to keep in mind is that Apple is reflecting a market need. This market need exists because a certain segment of the market wants to buy computers like this, myself included:
- I'll accept less choice in configuration for a simpler buying experience.
- I don't even notice the specs of the hardware. Have computers even gotten faster in the last 3 years? I've barely noticed.
- I'll pay more for a computer if I perceive it provides more value: great design, great software, great OS meets that value equation for me.
That's just me and a small 10% sliver of the market. If Apple changed to meet the needs of the other 90%, the economics of that change would force a fundamental change in their ability to deliver superior value and a superior end-user experience. Any success derived from such a strategy would be short-lived as OS X ages and their hardware designs would go stale, and the low-margins associated with appeasing the 90% market would kill the economics of innovating new values. Eventually, they would shrivel up and die. But here is the thing: that small 10% segment of the market that wants to buy computers done the "Apple way" would not go away - it would still exist. And some new player would fill in to meet that demand, to the wonderment and bewilderment of the 90%.
Okay first off, Alienware is not synonymous with PC gaming - no PC gamer will actually buy any of their laptops (I am surprised Dell hasn't completely absorbed them yet).
And you are wrong about the larger screen - people may want a larger screen to watch movies, or it may be easier for them to read websites/do office work.
As I said, no one takes Alienware's overpriced crap seriously. Stop configuring from Alienware.
MacBook Pro isn't even really built that much better than PC machines anyways (for example, only 2 USB ports, poor battery life, very hot, known to break down via graphic cards, etc. etc.).
Also Apple has more fanboys than Dell, which may also explain a few things. Apple support is very bad (just look at the 4850 situation).
You are presenting you opinions as fact. Many are not accurate either, with the most glaring one being the statement about Apple support.
I just want to point out one thing..
20 somethin pages of comments? Obviously mac prices are one of the most controversial topics...
20 somethin pages of comments? Obviously mac prices are one of the most controversial topics...
True, there are some adamant posters that I know are holding back their true feelings.
Absolutely excellent points.
Buying a computer based on the hardware is so 1990's.
All true, but there are some that see hardware as the added bonus over design. There are many out there that need to work on machines that are faster, so they can encode faster, test faster, and run multiple VMs at one time.
To each their own, and not everyone has their breath taken away by nice designs and easy shopping, some have it taken by hardware, and some by how much faster they get their work done.
Oh, and some by how much FPS they get in their high end 3D gaming.
Exactly. One thing I have always like about Apple is they don't try to be all things to all people.
Why don't we get mad at Dell for not giving us an OS X - like OS that could come with their hardware for a cheap price? The focus is always on Apple to change their hardware, rather than the PC makers to develop better software, which tells me that what Apple has accomplished is the more difficult of the two. And yet people get angry when the company that cracked that nut positions themselves as a premium brand. Go get mad at Dell for not giving you an amazingly elegant OS coming out of their great hardware business model. Or go get mad at MS because they can't make software that is as good as Apple's. But you don't ever see anyone calling for that. I think that tells you something.
Contrary to what some people say here, Windows Vista Home Premium Service Pack 1 is quite good once you reach the "sweet" spot in terms of memory for the OS (3 GB in 32-bit mode, 4 GB on 64-bit mode). The biggest problem with Windows Vista was the fact it has enormous hardware requirements (notably needing a dual-core CPU), but since today's new-build machines on average use a dual-core CPU, that's no longer an issue. I use an HP Pavilion a6400f with 3 GB of RAM and an Intel Pentium Dual-Core E2200 CPU with Vista and never had a situation where I had to reboot my system if there was a program crash.
But getting back on topic, I still think Apple needs to seriously consider a small tower case machine in the US$750 to US$1,100 range with DVI-D and/or Mini DisplayPort connectors so they are fully Apple Cinema Display compatible or compatible with Apple-certified displays from the likes of LG, Samsung, Viewsonic, etc. (You can get an excellent 24" Samsung 1920x1200 display for under US$400 nowadays.) Indeed, at Fry's Electonics today, I can get a refurbished HP Pavilion with AMD Phenom X4 CPU, 8 GB of RAM, 1 TB Serial ATA-II hard drive preloaded with Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 in 64-bit mode, nVidia GeForce 9300SE graphics with 256 MB video RAM and DVI-D connector, and a BD-ROM/DVD burner drive plus that Samsung monitor I mentioned for US$1,100!
Apple right now is literally being propped up by the continued success of the iPod portable media players and the iPhone, as noted by the latest financial report for the company. But how long can that continue, especially with the notable overpricing of their Mac desktops and laptops?
But getting back on topic, I still think Apple needs to seriously consider a small tower case machine in the US$750 to US$1,100 range with DVI-D and/or Mini DisplayPort connectors so they are fully Apple Cinema Display compatible or compatible with Apple-certified displays from the likes of LG, Samsung, Viewsonic, etc. (You can get an excellent 24" Samsung 1920x1200 display for under US$400 nowadays.) Indeed, at Fry's Electonics today, I can get a refurbished HP Pavilion with AMD Phenom X4 CPU, 8 GB of RAM, 1 TB Serial ATA-II hard drive preloaded with Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 in 64-bit mode, nVidia GeForce 9300SE graphics with 256 MB video RAM and DVI-D connector, and a BD-ROM/DVD burner drive plus that Samsung monitor I mentioned for US$1,100!
Apple right now is literally being propped up by the continued success of the iPod portable media players and the iPhone, as noted by the latest financial report for the company. But how long can that continue, especially with the notable overpricing of their Mac desktops and laptops?
There are some that whine about Apple's price to the extreme. Personally I would like more options.... like a quad core tower that wasn't made from server parts.... but meh.
I bit*h about Dell a good number of times, and MS is just not cutting it right now.... Windows 7 may change that, but it'll only be enough for me to pick up a PC here and there for gaming/netbook-ing.
Ever since the switch to Intel (before that for some) the options part has been killing myself, and some users, the most.
Not in the context of Apple pricing or hardware limitations discussions. I think it is a valid point to consider in that context.
On whether Alienware has is not for gamers speaks for only your opinion alone. This is a company that markets itself towards that crowd. I'm not going to go ahead and price up every laptop that manufacturers made to make my case. I already made it.
Exactly how am I wrong about the screen sizes? I said that MOST people will buy a laptop for it's portability/capability. Do you really believe that people need the extra 2" on a laptops for watching movies? The truth is the extra 2" makes no difference for films. This is a ridiculous notion. There may be some that need it for vision reasons, but it is not enough of a reason for Apple creating a whole new laptop line. I'm sure that Apple may also missing out on blind people when it comes to the iPhone but that doesn't mean that they should come with a handset just for them. Incidentally, this has always been Microsoft's problem. When you try to be everything to everyone, you will create mediocrity. Since all the hardware makers use Windows, they in turn make mediocre products. Also it should be noted that because Dell has no control over software they can't make any hardware improvements because Windows won't support it. That's why you see Apple being able to embrace multitouch trackpads while Dell doesn't. That's why it's better for a company to control both hardware and software.
I don't know what you are talking about with build quality. USB ports have nothing to do with that. Look at iFixit's opening of the Macbook Pro. That thing is filled. BTW, how many PCs have FireWire 800. USB doesn't even come close. Battery life? Go look up anandtech's review of the Macbook Pro. Look at the page that has to do with battery life. Consistently the macs have longer battery life. Graphics cards? Go look up how many times Dell has had issues with Graphics cards. For a while when Vista originally shipped it was known to have issues with Nvidia cards.
You are basing Apple support on nothing. Like I said before a recent survey (by Consumer Reports I believe) rated Apple the best at support with a grade of 80%+. Dell had a 46%.
You are right. There are very little Dell fanboys (well except you). They are Windows fanboys. For them, whoever makes the hardware really doesn't matter. It is hard to root for a company that, in the past, created mediocre designs. Though I will say recently their laptops have got better but still nowhere as close as a Mac.
If you were to bring up Alienware in a gaming forum you would get laughed off. As I said, if you live only in a Mac world, you wouldn't understand PCs as well (hell Alienware is soon to shut down anyways).
Then why do people get 15 inch notebooks? lol, or bigger TVs? More screen, duh.
Yeah, one whole new laptop = new laptop line. Only Apple, lol.
I'm sure that Apple may also missing out on blind people when it comes to the iPhone but that doesn't mean that they should come with a handset just for them. Incidentally, this has always been Microsoft's problem. When you try to be everything to everyone, you will create mediocrity. Since all the hardware makers use Windows, they in turn make mediocre products. Also it should be noted that because Dell has no control over software they can't make any hardware improvements because Windows won't support it. That's why you see Apple being able to embrace multitouch trackpads while Dell doesn't. That's why it's better for a company to control both hardware and software.
Better question - which devices actually use Firewire 800? Even Apple includes a USB as default for iPods now.
MacBook Pro's have very low battery life - lol @ Apple talking about 8 hours of battery life for the 17inch. And even if the battery life is low, just upgrade the battery. Still be $100s cheaper than a Mac.
Macs have more problems with graphics cards. But don't mention NVIDIA cards here - Macs barely get the top of the line of last year, PCs are so far ahead it's not even funny.
Reading the comments on this forum, seems like they get an F. But the fanboys won't let that happen.
You don't buy a computer for designs, you buy it for functionality. The Mac (not OS X), is overpriced, underpowered, outdated, trash.
I can get a 16 inch laptop that will BLOW AWAY the MacBook Pro's (15 inch) specs out of the water for almost $1000 less!
when i bought the bottom of the range 2.2gHz Macbook Pro 2 years ago it was $2699. The economy was booming, it was good value while still be a considerable amount of money. Today, in the middle of a recession, a 2.4gHz Macook Pro costs $3199. A 20% increase in todays economic climate really represents poor value for money.
Even at $2699 the current offerings would not be thought of as cheap. They would still be at the top end of the market, so i dont see how it can hurt their reputation. It would certainly restore the level of value that they used to have 2 years ago. Their whole range is poor value for money at the moment.
Even at $2699 the current offerings would not be thought of as cheap. They would still be at the top end of the market, so i dont see how it can hurt their reputation. It would certainly restore the level of value that they used to have 2 years ago. Their whole range is poor value for money at the moment.
Oh really?
That's why Dell is selling multi-touch screen laptops, and you can get a touch-screen Asus all-in-one for $550?
Lenovo and Asus have multi-touch trackpads too.
You really should check before you attempt any claim that Apple has unique hardware - usually you'll find PCs offering the same.
Let me add a bit more to this whole discussion.
Apple is basically leveraging content creation software (GUI web building tools, multimedia software, video editing, high-end graphics and page layout, etc.) as their ultimate justification for existence on the computer side of things. When you stop to consider that most of the software we're talking about is 3rd party software and both Microsoft and F/OSS are (in whatever painful ways right now) taking steps to compete, Apple needs to wake up to the fact that it had better start doing other things to continue to justify its existence.
I've sort of done this before, but I'll use myself as an example (again)...
I don't have a video camera, and I'm not into any of that sort of stuff. I don't do coding of any kind, nor animation, have never even touched Flash, and if I never do, that'll be OK by me. I'm also not into gaming (haven't the mentality or the reflexes for that). Now, I am a trained desktop publisher/graphic designer by trade, and every third (or so) blue moon I dabble in what can only be described as "90s style" web page building. Scribus and Gimp continue to improve all the time. The majority of what I do on my computer involves a web browser, a chat client, a page layout program and an image editor. Frankly, it's becoming easier and easier to do all of these tasks in Linux.
What's keeping me on the Mac is the fact that there is no web page creation suite (a la Dreamweaver or RapidWeaver) for Linux, and that Gimp really doesn't handle CMYK yet. Also, I own an iPod Touch which I would like to continue to use and sync with a computer, and I own a couple other iPods which I would also like to use without jumping through hoops.
In other words, look at how close I am to basically "not needing" Apple. Plus, these are really hard economic times, and a growing number of people can ill afford more expensive equipment, regardless of what advantages it may happen to have (many of those are even arguable). I don't know if anyone else here has said it, much less though it, but how much of a parallel is the late 90s/early 2000s real estate and economy bubble with Apple's present financial success? Again, understand that I give Steve Jobs all the credit in the world for generally excellent leadership. However, one has to wonder how long this is going to last, or how long it can even be sustainable for.
At the (not inconsiderable) risk of bringing political discussion to an area of MacRumors that's well outside the PRSI area, consider the state our economy and even our socio-political environment is in. I mean, everyone now is hot to trot on the bandwagon of "The Recession's Over! The Recession's Over!" but there are far more irons in that fire than they want to admit, and I don't think what's going on even under the best of circumstances would be that quick to be fixed. All I'm trying to say is that we're probably in for a sustained rough ride, and one can only wonder how viable Apple's (or, in truth, anyone elses') business strategies are going to be in such a scenario.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Wonder where Steve's at?
Apple is basically leveraging content creation software (GUI web building tools, multimedia software, video editing, high-end graphics and page layout, etc.) as their ultimate justification for existence on the computer side of things. When you stop to consider that most of the software we're talking about is 3rd party software and both Microsoft and F/OSS are (in whatever painful ways right now) taking steps to compete, Apple needs to wake up to the fact that it had better start doing other things to continue to justify its existence.
I've sort of done this before, but I'll use myself as an example (again)...
I don't have a video camera, and I'm not into any of that sort of stuff. I don't do coding of any kind, nor animation, have never even touched Flash, and if I never do, that'll be OK by me. I'm also not into gaming (haven't the mentality or the reflexes for that). Now, I am a trained desktop publisher/graphic designer by trade, and every third (or so) blue moon I dabble in what can only be described as "90s style" web page building. Scribus and Gimp continue to improve all the time. The majority of what I do on my computer involves a web browser, a chat client, a page layout program and an image editor. Frankly, it's becoming easier and easier to do all of these tasks in Linux.
What's keeping me on the Mac is the fact that there is no web page creation suite (a la Dreamweaver or RapidWeaver) for Linux, and that Gimp really doesn't handle CMYK yet. Also, I own an iPod Touch which I would like to continue to use and sync with a computer, and I own a couple other iPods which I would also like to use without jumping through hoops.
In other words, look at how close I am to basically "not needing" Apple. Plus, these are really hard economic times, and a growing number of people can ill afford more expensive equipment, regardless of what advantages it may happen to have (many of those are even arguable). I don't know if anyone else here has said it, much less though it, but how much of a parallel is the late 90s/early 2000s real estate and economy bubble with Apple's present financial success? Again, understand that I give Steve Jobs all the credit in the world for generally excellent leadership. However, one has to wonder how long this is going to last, or how long it can even be sustainable for.
At the (not inconsiderable) risk of bringing political discussion to an area of MacRumors that's well outside the PRSI area, consider the state our economy and even our socio-political environment is in. I mean, everyone now is hot to trot on the bandwagon of "The Recession's Over! The Recession's Over!" but there are far more irons in that fire than they want to admit, and I don't think what's going on even under the best of circumstances would be that quick to be fixed. All I'm trying to say is that we're probably in for a sustained rough ride, and one can only wonder how viable Apple's (or, in truth, anyone elses') business strategies are going to be in such a scenario.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Wonder where Steve's at?
This is getting ridiculous. MOST people do not get 15" for the sake of watching movies. There is a huge difference between watching movies on a TV that 32" and one that is 40". There is not much of a difference between a 13" & 15". LOL.
My hard drive uses firewire 800 and is far more faster than usb 2.0. There are digital cameras that still use FireWire. Both 400 & 800 are faster overall than USB 2.0. If you were so smart you would know that. iPods have USB because they had to when they offered iTunes for Windows. You should know that.
You say the 17" battery life is low. Most reports name it in the 4:30-5:30 range. Name me one 17" that comes even close in battery life. Just one. Like I said before go and read anandtech's review of the battery life of the 15" MBP. Here I'll help you:http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3435&p=13
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DVD Playback
New MacBook Pro (OS X) 3.07 hours
New MacBook Pro (Vista) 1.5 hours
Wireless Internet Browsing DVD Playback Heavy Usage
MacBook Air (OS X) 4.98 hours 3.93 hours 2.7 hours
MacBook Air (Vista) 2.55 hours 2.05 hours 1.75 hours
Lenovo X300 (Vista) 2.82 hours 2.18 hours 1.68 hours
From Anandtech: "All I can do for now is report the numbers as is. An unexpected benefit of OS X appears to be better battery life. Go figure."
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From Engadget: "Absent any mention of Hybrid SLI, we assumed that was all, but PC Mag has posted some eyebrow-raising benchmarks comparing the new MacBook Pro to HP's Pavilion HDX16t, which also features a 9600M GT. While the MacBook Pro test model fell behind the Pavilion in most benchmarks due to its slower processor, its Crysis framerate beat that of the Pavilion by 24.1 frames per second -- 41.9 over 17.3. "
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Still think they make lousy computers?
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From PC World:
Apple clobbers Windows PC makers in customer service survey
Apple Inc. beat rival computer makers such as Hewlett-Packard Co. and Dell Inc. by wide margins in a recent customer satisfaction survey, an analyst said today.
Of the five computer manufacturers that made it into Forrester Research Inc.'s Customer Experience Index top 114 firms, Apple scored 80%, enough for a label of "good" and 23rd place.
Gateway, HP and Compaq, meanwhile, scored 66%, 64% and 63%, respectively, taking places 64, 72 and 78. Only Gateway did well enough to sneak into the "okay" category; HP and Compaq dropped into the "poor" pigeonhole.
Dell was the lowest-scoring computer maker in the index, getting just 58% -- "poor" by Forrester's standards -- and holding down 93rd place.
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Really? A bottom of the line graphics card? Why does Dell & Alienware offer the same "old, outdated card". LOL. Still no comment though about the problems that Vista had with Nvidia cards when they it was launched. Huh.
What do you know about how and why people buy things? LOL. You're not very smart if you think that looks don't matter. There is a difference between a BMW and a Honda. There is a difference between a Corvette and a Ferrari. Just because they go as fast doesn't mean they're just as good. There's a difference between an ugly girl and a pretty girl. Who do you think the guys will ask out more? There is a difference between a Picasso and something you drew. You know nothing if you think that design doesn't have an impression on this world.
BTW, you want to know what build quality is: http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/26/macbook-pro-takes-bullet-like-a-champ/
That's the picture of a MBP taking a bullet and still working. That is build quality.
Unlike you I back up what I say. End of lesson.
market share
mac mini and white mac book could be good products to widen the market share of apple, the key is the price. unfortunately it seems that apple doesn't want to gain market share, because the price of these products is still quite high compared to the competitors.
am i the only one who still would like to see appel products in the "original" iMac candy plastic design? wouldn't this be the chance for apple to introduce a new, cheaper "candy" line with a price that's about 20-30% less than the current products? what about calling it "the x series"?what about using white rubber instead of plastic???
imagine an 399$ x.mac mini, or a 20" x.mac for 799$? and finally the x.mac book for competitive 599$...
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more about bp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T-irpmDRhM
mac mini and white mac book could be good products to widen the market share of apple, the key is the price. unfortunately it seems that apple doesn't want to gain market share, because the price of these products is still quite high compared to the competitors.
am i the only one who still would like to see appel products in the "original" iMac candy plastic design? wouldn't this be the chance for apple to introduce a new, cheaper "candy" line with a price that's about 20-30% less than the current products? what about calling it "the x series"?what about using white rubber instead of plastic???
imagine an 399$ x.mac mini, or a 20" x.mac for 799$? and finally the x.mac book for competitive 599$...
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more about bp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T-irpmDRhM
Well let's see one website say no numerous say yes. Apple always tries to spin.
That said, we are all brethreen trying to have the best experience and bang fir the buck. During these tough time we should all be pulling together.
There. Pass me a shovel
Um, except for the fact that there's no such thing as a FireWire (or USB) hard drive. So no, in fact, you don't.
Umm, he is talking about external hard drives. A lot of people use the term "USB hard drives" to refer to external drives that uses USB interface, saying Firewire HD would refer to external hard drives that uses firewire interfaces.