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whatever..

whatever apple, but bring me ivy bridge as fast as possible and of course more pixel is not a bad idea as + you're ma next mac;)
 
STOP STOP STOP STOP

This alleged resolution increase WILL NOT give you more room on your screen.

As with the iPhone 3gs --> iPhone 4 transition, everything will simply look more crisp.


If they do indeed include the option of using that as a native resolution, then everything will be so small that you won't be able to use your screen.
 
Yea GPU's have been capable of 2880*1800 forever :

Yes they have.

GMA 950 - 2048x1536 at 75 Hz maximum resolution

Intel HD3000 (sandy bridge / MBP 13"...) - 2560x1600 at 75 hz maximum resolution.

Let me quote someone that answers you perfectly why you're wrong :

Why ? Because it's the display output bus width that matters.

See, you're not talking about the GPU. I believe the topic was that "GPU power was not sufficient to push this kind of resolution". I say it is, you say I'm wrong based not on GPUs but on the type of display port they use.

I don't think anymore needs to be said, stick to the topic. GPU power is sufficient. That until Dual link DVI, HDMI and DP we didn't have enough bandwidth to get these pixels to a monitor is not related to the discussion of future monitors and GPU power.

You bear your forum nickname well indeed.
 
STOP STOP STOP STOP

This alleged resolution increase WILL NOT give you more room on your screen.

As with the iPhone 3gs --> iPhone 4 transition, everything will simply look more crisp.


If they do indeed include the option of using that as a native resolution, then everything will be so small that you won't be able to use your screen.


It will be scaled to fit appropriately, but it would be a little ridiculous to raise the resolution that high and not receive any extra screen real-estate benefit.
 
It will be scaled to fit appropriately, but it would be a little ridiculous to raise the resolution that high and not receive any extra screen real-estate benefit.

Well, if they go with 2880x1800 as a HiDPI option, you're not getting any extra real-estate over the current 1440x900 models.
 
Considering that the resolution of a monitor would be THAT high, would FSAA then be useless? The pixel density would be insane on a large screen like that, I doubt the quality would need to be any better or any more noticeable.

I would think taking into account not using FSAA would let the card run faster (but then slower at a higher resolution).

I doubt it, the iPhone antialias's it's Retina screen, and it's really noticable at times. :(
 
Although this would be absolutely fantastic, I don't see this happening for many reasons.
If Apple opts for a 2880x1800 screen, wouldn't a 2560x1600 screen be much more practical?

Also, the application of this concept is very unlikely for a MacBook Pro. How do we expect to cram a 2880x1800 display in a 15.4" form factor when we can barely fit a 2560x1600 display into a 27" monitor? Not only that, but the amount of power necessary to power such a high resolution screen will be tremendous and would drain battery life.

Intel HD Graphics will never be able to support such a display all the time. It struggles already with 1600p; how does one expect it to work for a 2880x1800 screen? This would mean that for such a "Retina Display" to be used, Apple would have to put a GPU in the MacBook Pros for regular use instead of the Intel IGPs.

Finally, the colors would be absolutely terrible. The reason that MacBook Pros are praised for their displays, despite being a mirror, is that they have a fairly high color gamut and color accuracy. On the other hand, the iPhone 4 was revealed to have a color gamut of around 65%. Which means the color quality of the display will suffer, even when properly calibrated.

Apple wouldn't sacrifice this many things just so it can quadruple the number of pixels.

Thank you apunkrockmonk for pointing out that the resolution on the 3GS is much worse than what I've been seeing.
 
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Although this would be absolutely fantastic, I don't see this happening for many reasons.
The 640x480 display on the iPhone 3GS had a 4:3 aspect ratio. The Retina Display has a different aspect ratio of 3:2. This caused a lot of problems for developers because not only did they have to upscale their graphics, but they also had to create entirely new ones for the new screen. It wasn't a simple doubling of the dimensions; that would have been a 1280x960 screen.

Not realizing this, everyone seems to have fallen for the marketing and applies the moniker "Retina Display" to any screen which have "doubled" in resolution. For example, the iPad with its 1024x768 screen will not have a 2048x1536 screen because that would be a quadrupling of the pixels. Rather, in accordance with the iPhone 4, the hypothetical iPad would have a 1536x1024 screen if it was to be marketed under the Retina Display label.

Only the SHORTER side is doubled. The other remains the same.

That being said, a true Retina Display would be 1800x1440, not 2880x1800. But if you're going to have a complicated-as-heck, brand-new 1800x1440 screen which no one uses, why not just cram a 1920x1200 screen in instead? Or even if Apple decides to go the other route and opts for a 2880x1800 screen, wouldn't a 2560x1600 screen be much more practical?

Also, the application of this concept is very unlikely for a MacBook Pro. How do we expect to cram a 2880x1800 display in a 15.4" form factor when we can barely fit a 2560x1600 display into a 27" monitor? Not only that, but the amount of power necessary to power such a high resolution screen will be tremendous and would drain battery life.

Intel HD Graphics will never be able to support such a display all the time. It struggles already with 1600p; how does one expect it to work for a 2880x1800 screen? This would mean that for such a "Retina Display" to be used, Apple would have to put a GPU in the MacBook Pros for regular use instead of the Intel IGPs.

Apple wouldn't sacrifice this many things just so it can quadruple the number of pixels.

The resolution of the 3GS is 480x320...
 
Is the text going to be even smaller than it is on the current 15" high res display?

No, resolution independence would upscale the text as well as the rest of the images.
Compare an iPhone 3GS and an iPhone 4S. Is the text on the iPhone 4S smaller than the 3GS? No, it's just sharper.
 
Although this would be absolutely fantastic, I don't see this happening for many reasons.
It's already been done in the past (Sony had a 13" laptop with 1080P years ago), it's just never been in a popular device like MBP. Apple's relationships with their fabs are so good, that the fabs are willing to justify the high costs of producing such a high-risk and expensive move to the new manufacturing lines. It's one thing doing it for a small niche population but it's another thing doing it for Apple's 10+ million customers.

The technologies we have now are capable of doing this, the problem is the yield. The fabs can't produce enough good screens to meet Apple's quality requirements (no backlights, no dead pixels), but it is possible to get there quickly.

iPhone 4 was the first mass-produced high-res monitor. Samsung already mentioned that they want to release 2560x1600 in a 11.6" tablet according to the latest rumor from BGR.

If Apple opts for a 2880x1800 screen, wouldn't a 2560x1600 screen be much more practical?

It has nothing to do with the resolution but more of the pixel density. Apple wants to make it easier to scale up by doubling the pixel density. For one black pixel pixel on the current screen, the Retina display would create 4 tiny black pixels to show one black pixel to the user. It looks much sharper beacuse there's more details. You can't use 3 or 2 pixel to do the same. They won't look the same, so you have to double it two ways, (2*2). The current native resolution on MBP is 1440x900, so Apple has to double it to 2880x1800 (1440*2 x 900*2).

On the 15", it would be 2800x1800, for 17" it'd have to be 3840x2400.

Also, the application of this concept is very unlikely for a MacBook Pro. How do we expect to cram a 2880x1800 display in a 15.4" form factor when we can barely fit a 2560x1600 display into a 27" monitor? Not only that, but the amount of power necessary to power such a high resolution screen will be tremendous and would drain battery life.

We don't know anything about how it is developed, there may be new technologies that optimized for power uses. It may be a bit more power hog than the current screen but there are certains techniques that can be done to mininize the power requirements. Apple may have also developed new battery technologies to increase its density without adding more weight.

Intel HD Graphics will never be able to support such a display all the time. It struggles already with 1600p; how does one expect it to work for a 2880x1800 screen? This would mean that for such a "Retina Display" to be used, Apple would have to put a GPU in the MacBook Pros for regular use instead of the Intel IGPs.

If this rumor is true, it'll be in the next MBP with Ivy Bridge's CPU with iGP 4000, it'll support up to 4K resolution just fine, Intel confirms this. It doesn't require that much to push that kind of resolution. Gaming on the native resolution is a different story, that's where the dGPU come in. For typical OS usage, it doesn't require that much power.

Finally, the colors would be absolutely terrible. The reason that MacBook Pros are praised for their displays, despite being a mirror, is that they have a fairly high color gamut and color accuracy. On the other hand, the iPhone 4 was revealed to have a color gamut of around 65%. Which means the color quality of the display will suffer, even when properly calibrated.

Apple wouldn't sacrifice this many things just so it can quadruple the number of pixels.
Sure, it would. Apple has already shown in the past few years that it'd be willing to sacrifiic to carter for the regular users, not the power users. For regular users, they don't care about having high color gamut, they never cared for it in the past and they certainly won't now.
 
It's already been done in the past (Sony had a 13" laptop with 1080P years ago), it's just never been in a popular device like MBP. Apple's relationships with their fabs are so good, that the fabs are willing to justify the high costs of producing such a high-risk and expensive move to the new manfacturing lines. It's one thing doing it for a small niche population but it's another thing doing it for Apple's 10+ million customers.

The technologies we have now are capable of doing this, the problem is the yield. The fabs can't produce enough good screens to meet Apple's quality requirements (no backlights, no dead pixels), but it is possible to get there quickly.

iPhone 4 was the first mass-produced high-res monitor. Samsung already mentioned that they want to release 2560x1600 in a 11.6" tablet according to the latest rumor from BGR.
It has nothing to do with the resolution but more of the pixel density. Apple wants to make it easier to scale up by doubling the pixel density. For one black pixel pixel on the current screen, the Retina display would create 4 tiny black pixels to show one black pixel to the user. It looks much sharper beacuse there's more details. You can't use 3 or 2 pixel to do the same. They won't look the same, so you have to double it two ways, (2*2). The current native resolution on MBP is 1440x900, so Apple has to double it to 2880x1800 (1440*2 x 900*2).On the 15", it would be 2800x1800, for 17" it'd have to be 3840x2400.
We don't know anything about how it is developed, there may be new technologies that optimized for power uses. It may be a bit more power hog than the current screen but there are certains techniques that can be done to mininize the power requirements. Apple may have also developed new battery technologies to increase its density without adding more weight.
If this rumor is true, it'll be in the next MBP with Ivy Bridge's CPU with iGP 4000, it'll support up to 4K resolution just fine, Intel confirms this. It doesn't require that much to push that kind of resolution. Gaming on the native resolution is a different story, that's where the dGPU come in. For typical OS usage, it doesn't require that much power.
Sure, it would. Apple has already shown in the past few years that it'd be willing to sacrifiic to carter for the regular users, not the power users. For regular users, they don't care about having high color gamut, they never cared for it in the past and they certainly won't now.

The practicality issue is not with the consumers, but with the manufacturers.
Apple would have to pay gigantic premiums for these custom panels to be made, and at a non-standard resolution too.
It's much simpler for Apple to buy 1080p or 1600p 15" panels that are already in production instead of use this Retina Display standard.
 
No, resolution independence would upscale the text as well as the rest of the images.
Compare an iPhone 3GS and an iPhone 4S. Is the text on the iPhone 4S smaller than the 3GS? No, it's just sharper.

So what would the text size be like compared to a current display? I've seen what you mean with the iPhone. I just don't really understand why the higher resolution would upscale the text size. If I look at a standard MBP 15, then a 15" high res and then the 17", the text gets smaller and smaller. I'm not as young as most of you, and this becomes a real problem for me. Could you explain it a bit more? Thanks.
 
So what would the text size be like compared to a current display? I've seen what you mean with the iPhone. I just don't really understand why the higher resolution would upscale the text size. If I look at a standard MBP 15, then a 15" high res and then the 17", the text gets smaller and smaller. I'm not as young as most of you, and this becomes a real problem for me. Could you explain it a bit more? Thanks.

The iPhone has resolution independence (to some degree); the MacBook Pros do not.
Once the MacBook Pros receive this option, then the text will be of the same size.
 
The iPhone has resolution independence (to some degree); the MacBook Pros do not.
Once the MacBook Pros receive this option, then the text will be of the same size.

The same size as which current display? I'm not understanding this for some reason.
 
The practicality issue is not with the consumers, but with the manufacturers.
Apple would have to pay gigantic premiums for these custom panels to be made, and at a non-standard resolution too.
It's much simpler for Apple to buy 1080p or 1600p 15" panels that are already in production instead of use this Retina Display standard.

I already mentioned that in the first comment, the fabs have a very good relationship with Apple and Apple has enough money to do it. Remember that the high cost is only at the initial phase, the more they make, the cheaper they become because of the maturity of the technologies.

Also, it doesn't matter about the resolution, it's about packing the pixels closely enough to match the spec that Apple wants. Once Apple does it, the panels are more likely to cut a deal with other companies who might want to do the same.

The manufacturers didn't have any issues doing the same thing with the actual iPhone 4S's retina and that was really a first. For enough money, they'll try again.

Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention: the most power consuming part in the display monitor is the backlight, not the actual pixels. As long as the backlight stays the same, the power consumption should not increase that much. The GPU is not going to overheat because of the higher bandwidth requirement, not in the faster and smaller Ivy Bridge CPU.
 
The same size as which current display? I'm not understanding this for some reason.

The screen size is a constant value, 15.4". So with resolution independence, you could set the screen to display at the same size as it would on a 1440x900 15.4" display, but with the clarity of a 1680x1050 screen. You could also set it to be even bigger and set it at the size of a 1280x800 15.4" display, and so on.


I already mentioned that in the first comment, the fabs have a very good relationship with Apple and Apple has enough money to do it. Remember that the high cost is only at the initial phase, the more they make, the cheaper they become because of the maturity of the technologies.

Also, it doesn't matter about the resolution, it's about packing the pixels closely enough to match the spec that Apple wants. Once Apple does it, the panels are more likely to cut a deal with other companies who might want to do the same.

The manufacturers didn't have any issues doing the same thing with the actual iPhone 4S's retina and that was really a first. For enough money, they'll try again.

Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention: the most power consuming part in the display monitor is the backlight, not the actual pixels. As long as the backlight stays the same, the power consumption should not increase that much. The GPU is not going to overheat because of the higher bandwidth requirement, not in the faster and smaller Ivy Bridge CPU.
The denser pixels result in a dimmer display, requiring a brighter backlight.
Honestly, the current hi-res display qualifies as a Retina Display because at the distance that you should be using your laptop at (at least one and a half feet away), you can't really see the pixels. But that's just me.
 
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So what would the text size be like compared to a current display? I've seen what you mean with the iPhone. I just don't really understand why the higher resolution would upscale the text size. If I look at a standard MBP 15, then a 15" high res and then the 17", the text gets smaller and smaller. I'm not as young as most of you, and this becomes a real problem for me. Could you explain it a bit more? Thanks.

The same size as which current display? I'm not understanding this for some reason.

Don't focus too much about the actual resolution but think about pixel density.

Current screen: one black pixel
Retina screen: 4 smaller black pixels and in HiDPI mode on Lion, it'll look like 1 black pixel.

It's about showing more details at smaller scale but showing it the same way to the user. Because it has more details, the text will be much sharper.

If you were to think about the resolution, then it will be one black pixel on current screen and one black pixel on Retina screen and three unused pixels.

Does that help?
 
The screen size is a constant value, 15.4". So with resolution independence, you could set the screen to display at the same size as it would on a 1440x900 15.4" display, but with the clarity of a 1680x1050 screen. You could also set it to be even bigger and set it at the size of a 1280x800 15.4" display, and so on.

Maybe I'm just not understanding resolution independence. A 2880x1800 screen would be insanely clear, as long as the text sin't downsized. Currently if you lower the resolution of a high res screen, you lose some of the clarity, and the lower the resolution, the less sharp it becomes. So are you saying that with this much higher resolution you will be able to lower the resolution to make the text larger yet the screen will be much sharper than it is with today's panels? I hope that made sense.
 
The denser pixels result in a dimmer display, requiring a brighter backlight.

Depends on what technologies they decide to use, we just don't know until they release it first. AMOLED has the capability of being more brighter without requiring more power.
 
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