Apple to Offer $29 iPhone Battery Replacements, More Battery Health Info in iOS

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. bunnicula macrumors 68040

    bunnicula

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    Jul 23, 2008
  2. nebo1ss macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2010
    #2227
    So i took my one year old iPhone 6S to Apple Regent street London today for battery problems. Coconut battery shows it has 300 cycles and when full charged a capacity of 77 percent of original. Apple did their test and confirmed it has 300 cycles but claimed it had 90 percent capacity. However, they agreed to replace the battery for £25 on my insistence.

    I never saw their results myself and doubt the 90 percent they claim because of a constant need to keep charging the phone. However, happy they agreed to replace battery for £25.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    See my post above for real world experience and to show you are correct.
     
  3. Guidonculous macrumors newbie

    Guidonculous

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2015
    #2228
    Mor
    More importantly, the processors frequently vary their timing in direct contrast to a traditional computer/processor. Numerous discussions by nenchmarkers about how these results are invalid. So, yeah, this screenshot is beyond meaningless.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    These processors all use variable clock rates. Notice, nowhere does Apple advertise the clockrate of their processors. One reason for this is that each time you test them you’ll get s different result.

    Apple banned them as they do not give any useful information. If you’ll notice, the best processor testers on the planet never do benchmarks for clock speed (here’s an example article
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/4971/apple-iphone-4s-review-att-verizon/4 ).

    Quite simply, your screenshot is basically of a random number generator.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    Nope, external batteries wouldn’t prevent the device for shorting our and restarting. Keep drastically misunderstanding computer science tho, it’s a good look.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    You mean, like when Apple disclosed they were doing this is the 10.1 update notes?

    Or, for your very bad example, my all wheel drive car throttles the amount of energy going to each specific wheel as I round s turn or lose traction due to ice. This is all done to save my life. In those moments, I’m getting a lower fuel economy than advertised. I am being throttled, and Subaru never gives out the specs about exactly how much they are throttling me to keep my car upright. And no one cares.
     
  4. trifid macrumors 65816

    trifid

    Joined:
    May 10, 2011
    #2229
    I disagree that one can't infer useful information from such an app. For what I need, I get 100% consistency with the tests I've ran, after the battery replacement clock speed according to the app fluctuates between 1800-1848, whereas before it went usually from 600-900, and extremely rarely 1500, it never reached 1848. Real world usage also confirms the phone is far more snappy and responsive. Apple confirmed the throttling, hence I got confirmation that changing the battery makes a huge difference. The benchmark app is very useful and consistent for this type of testing.
     
  5. Guidonculous macrumors newbie

    Guidonculous

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    Dec 3, 2015
    #2230
    Did you ever try an erase and setup as new first?
     
  6. H2SO4 macrumors 68040

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    Nov 4, 2008
    #2231
    You need to read more. This has NOTHING to do with computer science. As far as the battery is concerned this is a variable load. Please come back and tell me I'm wrong.
    Let me exaggerate for you. If this was a 1.2V 500Ah battery you think we'd have the same issue?
     
  7. Guidonculous macrumors newbie

    Guidonculous

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2015
    #2232
    What are you actually asking now? Are you asking if a lithium ion battery with over 500 charge cycles will have power spikes? Yes it will.

    Are you asking if a single charge charge battery will deliver a less variable output, I believe so, yes, although I’ve studied those far less.

    Are you asking if the OS treats the power different if it’s an external source or the internal battery, absolutely. This is where the throttling comes into play, and this the computer science.

    As an example, run a high intensive process on a laptop connected to power and then on battery. Almost universally it’ll run a bit slower on battery.

    The phones work almost the opposite (not actually, but in someways). If I unplug a battery and power in the iPhone, it’ll work, but doesn’t hit peak performance.

    Similarly, using a battery pack, the system does not treat it as the internal battery, and so will not provide peak performance b
     
  8. H2SO4 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    #2233
    Not sure why you're choosing not to see but.....
    For a start I'm guessing you don't actually know how the power is managed in this device. Here is one example of power management for you. If you do for the specific case of the iPhone, a link please.
    Second I think you know that a 500AH, (read big enough), battery would not suffer like this one does.
     
  9. Guidonculous macrumors newbie

    Guidonculous

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2015
    #2234
    I do know that the iPhone does not handle power the way you described. The battery is absolutely still in use when connected to power. Apple has always been cagey with exactly how the SMC works precisely, so getting you a link is impossible, however you can run tests as I described which will highlight some ways in which the system works. For example, the iPhone is able to power on when the battery is disconnected, but doing real world usage tests will show you the phone is not functioning at peak performance in this scenario. Further proof that Appel handles power differently than most, when you use the official Apple battery pack, it simultaneously draws power from both batteries. When you connect the Apple battery case, if at first the battery pack has a greater charge remaining than the iPhone, it will prioritize using the battery case until the remaining charge is equal between the two batteries. When that happens, they drop in concert with one another. Again, the system is fully aware of how much battery is dedicated to the device and what portion of the current is coming from an external power source. The system assumes that it can only rely on the dedicated battery, and so it clearly make concessions to ensure that if the external power source is disconnected that your device doesn't panic. The exact firmware/software dance which is being played to handle all this is almost assuredly extremely complex, which again, is why there is no public documentation of it.

    As for you questioning if a battery with a greater charge capacity would see similar fluctuations in current delivered, again, yes. Now percentage-wise, it might be more consistent with a bigger battery, but the same underlaying physical process is occuring with the battery chemistry itself. Here's a nice write-up which goes into how you can figure out the capacity remaining as well as explaining why the current will fluctuate as a function of time as cells degrade. https://drum.lib.umd.edu/bitstream/...d=A2B765004E0B8441186DA572B0F8EE7C?sequence=1

    But all of this stems from the first point which was someone asking why Apple doesn't just tell you when its throttling, and the answer is because the process is extremely complex, and that the power management and other related processes are incredibly involved and not something you can explain with just a couple of variables.

    Edit: One more example of how complex Apple's SMC is, when the iPhone is at 100%, it begins alternating using solely battery power and using battery/external power so that the iPhone does not remain at 100% charge for any length of time. Thus, its actually possible for the phone to drop a percent or so of power after being at full power while still connected to the external power source.

    The final example would be that you can plug an iPhone into all sorts of various wattage adapters and it all auto-adjusts (throttles) the current so that it doesn't just start on fire. I'm sure you are well aware of this last example, but again highlights that the iPhone is different from the majority of electronic devices which do none of these checks.
     
  10. kdarling, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018

    kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Location:
    First university coding class = 46 years ago
    #2235
    Macs have a SMC, iPhones do not.

    Not unusual.

    The PMIC handles most of that, and additional control coding is hardly complex.

    Throttling algorithms are extremely simple. They simply watch for current and voltage to fall within preset limits.

    Again, common. And not very smart, either, since the constant trickle charge can heat up the battery.

    Standard on virtually every smartphone.
     
  11. H2SO4 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    #2236
    I'm not even sure if we're talking across purposes or in agreement anymore.
    What I'm sure of however is that Apple are not unique in how they manage batteries. Now you are stating that Apple handle power differently than most. If you can't link to anything specific to Apple how about something specific to 'most'?
    I'm not questioning charge capacity. It is painfully obvious that given the X watts drawn by the system as a whole a bigger battery would be in better shape than one of the current size. I saw an absolutely ludicrous post that suggested it wouldn't make any difference as the processor would just use more energy to cancel that out and we'd therefore be in the same position. Can't remember who posted it but I can guarantee you they are embarrassed by it.
    Lastly you seem to be suggesting that Apple are using some kind of special hocus pocus for float charging. No.
    As with a UPS it manages the DC bus and tries to give the battery as little current as possible to maintain a certain voltage whilst powering the load.
    It's all as with some of the most primitive chargers, about feedback loops. Bearing in mind what I've said in the last paragraph, Voltage is too high? phase it back. If voltage is too low phase forward. End of story.
    How quickly and what level of granularity there is involed may be better than some implementations but please. There is nothing special here.
     
  12. fitcious macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    #2237
    I wonder will the iPhone 6 and 6S raise in value now after a change in battery and revert its performance back to date of first use?
     
  13. H2SO4 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    #2238
    Doubt it. It's very difficult to wash the stink off something once its there.
     
  14. jrbdmb macrumors 6502

    jrbdmb

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Location:
    USA
    #2239
    Total BS. Apple knows that a large number of users are pushed to upgrade because their current iPhone seems to be running slower. To do this slowdown with any way of informing a user of it occurring is fraudulent.
     
  15. theoretically macrumors newbie

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    Sep 1, 2016
    Location:
    LA, CA, USA
    #2240
    --- Post Merged, Jan 4, 2018 ---
    Will this $29 offer apply to the iPod Touch, which presumably has the same problem?
     

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