It's not like we are not getting anything back from it. Much of what is produced in china leads to more here. This is a world economy we are living in. By purchasing chinese goods for a lower price we used less of our money then we would have spent buying a native product. We keep more money in our pocket that can be spent domestically. It all balances out. In fact it is a good thing for our productivity right now. China has a large number of component manufacturers. Lower cost computers, tools, and equipment help lower startup costs for new technology companies here. We just need to spend less on cheap worthless junk from china. No more happy meal toys please.
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Apple to Offer Subsidies to Foxconn Workers?
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It's not like we are not getting anything back from it. Much of what is produced in china leads to more here. This is a world economy we are living in. By purchasing chinese goods for a lower price we used less of our money then we would have spent buying a native product. We keep more money in our pocket that can be spent domestically. It all balances out. In fact it is a good thing for our productivity right now. China has a large number of component manufacturers. Lower cost computers, tools, and equipment help lower startup costs for new technology companies here. We just need to spend less on cheap worthless junk from china. No more happy meal toys please.
It doesn't sit well with me that companies use Asian sweatshop labor to make more money on their products.
Apple won a newfound respect, in my eyes, for considering what is "right" over what is financially the most profitable. That said, I suspect the improved public image from doing this might earn them some increased sales.
One of the big reasons I buy Apple over other brands is for their "green" and social justice efforts.
Apple won a newfound respect, in my eyes, for considering what is "right" over what is financially the most profitable. That said, I suspect the improved public image from doing this might earn them some increased sales.
One of the big reasons I buy Apple over other brands is for their "green" and social justice efforts.
People grossly underestimate how much stuff we export as well.
We export $147.87 billion a month. And we import $188.3 billion according to the US commerce dept. Yes, there is a trade defecit, but it is by no means an insurmountable one, and it's not as if people overseas aren't buying our goods and importing from us as well.
US Movies, Timber, US products, clothes, electronics, ipads there is a crapton of stuff that we export. And yes, each iPad we sell overseas is a massive export for us, even though it is made overseas. This is because apples pays maybe $100 for the parts and labor to manufacture the iPad overseas, and turns around and sells it for $500. That is a $400 net export for us.
The best solution the trade deficit isn't to cut back on our imports and take away jobs from the chinese. The better solution is to start paying better wages overseas so that we can create a middle class there and export more to the people living there.
And as we export more overseas, that in turn creates more profits and more jobs here. It is a win win situation. Everyone benefits when the global economy grows.
Arguably, the US has more to gain than any other country if the middle class in India and China grows. US products are highly valued and sought after there. So if there is more of a middle class in India and China that can afford US products, they will buy more US products rather than buying cheap knock offs that fall apart.
There is a huge number of potential customers overseas, and all we have to do tap into them is to start paying more reasonable wages, as Apple just took a strong step towards.
Everyone arguing that we shouldn't employ anyone outside the US is being ridiculous.
We benefit if the rest of the world thrives. If chinese people make a living wage, and start being able to watch US movies, buy apple products, buy US brand name t-shirts etc, that money ends up back here helping our economy and creating jobs here.
The more consumers there are throughout the world, the better off everyone is. Saying that we should only employee people in the US means that the consumer market will not grow at a high rate either, and that in turn hurts us domestically and costs US jobs domestically as well.
What we should argue, is that people overseas deserve to make a living wage too, especially when they are being contracted out by US companies.
You know what, I think you're right.
I was actually going to buy the Evo 4G or some other phone in November once I'm out of contract because I was unhappy with a some of the decisions that Apple had been making.
But this is honestly the best thing I can think of any manufacturer doing in recent memory. 1%-1.5% is a huge amount of cash to spend.
It will make a stark improvement in the quality of life for the people working there.
I respect Apple a ton more after this and I'm going to stick with my 3GS until the 2011 iPhone is unveiled, and assuming it offers the 4.3-4.5 inch screen I desire, I'll be getting that, and probably a 2011 iPad to tide me over until then assuming it does away with most of the limitations of the 2010 iPad.
We export $147.87 billion a month. And we import $188.3 billion according to the US commerce dept. Yes, there is a trade defecit, but it is by no means an insurmountable one, and it's not as if people overseas aren't buying our goods and importing from us as well.
US Movies, Timber, US products, clothes, electronics, ipads there is a crapton of stuff that we export. And yes, each iPad we sell overseas is a massive export for us, even though it is made overseas. This is because apples pays maybe $100 for the parts and labor to manufacture the iPad overseas, and turns around and sells it for $500. That is a $400 net export for us.
The best solution the trade deficit isn't to cut back on our imports and take away jobs from the chinese. The better solution is to start paying better wages overseas so that we can create a middle class there and export more to the people living there.
And as we export more overseas, that in turn creates more profits and more jobs here. It is a win win situation. Everyone benefits when the global economy grows.
Arguably, the US has more to gain than any other country if the middle class in India and China grows. US products are highly valued and sought after there. So if there is more of a middle class in India and China that can afford US products, they will buy more US products rather than buying cheap knock offs that fall apart.
There is a huge number of potential customers overseas, and all we have to do tap into them is to start paying more reasonable wages, as Apple just took a strong step towards.
Everyone arguing that we shouldn't employ anyone outside the US is being ridiculous.
We benefit if the rest of the world thrives. If chinese people make a living wage, and start being able to watch US movies, buy apple products, buy US brand name t-shirts etc, that money ends up back here helping our economy and creating jobs here.
The more consumers there are throughout the world, the better off everyone is. Saying that we should only employee people in the US means that the consumer market will not grow at a high rate either, and that in turn hurts us domestically and costs US jobs domestically as well.
What we should argue, is that people overseas deserve to make a living wage too, especially when they are being contracted out by US companies.
You know what, I think you're right.
I was actually going to buy the Evo 4G or some other phone in November once I'm out of contract because I was unhappy with a some of the decisions that Apple had been making.
But this is honestly the best thing I can think of any manufacturer doing in recent memory. 1%-1.5% is a huge amount of cash to spend.
It will make a stark improvement in the quality of life for the people working there.
I respect Apple a ton more after this and I'm going to stick with my 3GS until the 2011 iPhone is unveiled, and assuming it offers the 4.3-4.5 inch screen I desire, I'll be getting that, and probably a 2011 iPad to tide me over until then assuming it does away with most of the limitations of the 2010 iPad.
Spending more abroad helps us spend more locally?!? Completely bogus logic.
Our trade deficit is getting out of control, and we don't use the "savings" to bolster the local economy. Quite the opposite if you look at the statistics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NettoauslandsvermögenUSen.PNG
To me, I don't mind other countries like Japan who compete with the US on innovation, but countries who "compete" simply with lower wages and worse working and environmental standards don't make me feel like we're making good long-term trading decisions.
Too much of a race to the bottom in price brings increased pollution and worse working conditions for everyone.
Besides, look at the cost of a pair of Levis jeans now vs. 20 years ago when they were all made in America. They weren't unaffordable back then when they weren't made in sweatshops. In fact, they seem more expensive to me now!
Also, to get a sense for the problems we face because of our apathy towards overseas sweatshops, note that the Asian economy recovered already while ours is still floundering. Someone is getting jobs, but it's not Americans!
You're most likely right in your assessment. Some of these workers apparently work 7 days a week - most likely to boost their wages and in hope to advance through the ranks.
PR stunt or not. On the face it feels good to the western consumer. I buy an Apple product, the company helps 3rd world workers. Still waiting to hear other tech companies. A certain new "evil" company could light a fire underneath some of its partner companies.
If I were working there, I'd make sure that this does come to happen and loosen my schedule, if I can.
Personally, I am all for more of doing thing domestically or at least in places where regulation causes for better working conditions. China is one of many examples of why you can't do anything well by taking over militarily and forcing a system on people like this. Anything that might be good about it isn't because you become just as bad or worse than what you might have had issue with beforehand.
Hopefully this isn't it though, Apple needs to keep an eye on things. If anything, I'd be willing to bay a hundred more bucks for my next iPod if they boycotted China. Of course, a lot of people here disagree. We love it when things are cheap, regardless of consequence. Why do you think Walmart has been so successful?
Personally, I am all for more of doing thing domestically or at least in places where regulation causes for better working conditions. China is one of many examples of why you can't do anything well by taking over militarily and forcing a system on people like this. Anything that might be good about it isn't because you become just as bad or worse than what you might have had issue with beforehand.
Hopefully this isn't it though, Apple needs to keep an eye on things. If anything, I'd be willing to bay a hundred more bucks for my next iPod if they boycotted China. Of course, a lot of people here disagree. We love it when things are cheap, regardless of consequence. Why do you think Walmart has been so successful?
People kill themselves for a number of reasons. If not having enough money is the reason, then why do rich people commit suicide?
Here is a listing of suicides of people of all walks of life, who I am sure most had no "money" problems. It doesn't mean they weren't troubled by something so much so to end their despair. As you can see, they are from all walks of life, poets, musicians, actors, rulers, etc. from all over the world. Their statute in life was far from a peasant worker, making squat, while working hundreds of hours, in a tenuous setting ie get the product out!
There is more to life than money and it is ashamed that Apple feels throwing money is an answer! Why is paying these workers more an afterthought now then say the eighth, seventh, sixth, fifth, fourth, third, second or first suicide?
Money is not necessarily the answer. If it were, then all the money that has been thrown at US Public Schools would produce Harvard qualified candidates. If it were, then all the money spent on health care in the US would give us lowest mortality rates. If it were, then all the money thrown at Poverty in the US would have ended the "War on Poverty" as opposed to enslaving the population to make do with less! That even Benjamin Franklin said was not a wise idea!
Franklin wrote a whole essay on the subject and told one of his friends: I have long been of your opinion, that your legal provision for the poor (in England ) is a very great evil, operating as it does to the encouragement of idleness. We have followed your example, and begin now to see our error, and, I hope, shall reform it.
A survey of Franklin s views on counterproductive compassion might be summarized as follows:
Compassion which gives a drunk the means to increase his drunkenness is counterproductive.
Compassion which breeds debilitating dependency and weakness is counterproductive.
Compassion which blunts the desire or necessity to work for a living is counterproductive.
Compassion which smothers the instinct to strive and excel is counterproductive.
Nevertheless, the Founders recognized that it is a mandate of God to help the poor and underprivileged. It is interesting how they said this should be done.
Franklin wrote: To relieve the misfortunes of our fellow creatures is concurring with the Deity; it is godlike; but, if we provide encouragement for laziness, and supports for folly, may we not be found fighting against the order of God and Nature, which perhaps has appointed want and misery as the proper punishments for, and cautions against, as well as necessary consequences of, idleness and extravagance? When ever we attempt to amend the scheme of Providence , and to interfere with the government of the world, we had need be very circumspect, lest we do more harm than good.
Nearly all of the Founders seem to have acquired deep convictions that assisting those in need had to be done through means which might be called calculated compassion.
Highlights from their writings suggest the following:
Do not completely care for the needymerely help them to help themselves.
Give the poor the satisfaction of earned achievement instead of rewarding them without achievement.
Allow the poor to climb the appreciation ladderfrom tents to cabins, cabins to cottages, cottages to comfortable houses.
Where emergency help is provided, do not prolong it to the point where it becomes habitual.
Strictly enforce the scale of fixed responsibility. The first and foremost level of responsibility is with the individual himself; the second level is the family; then the church; next the community; finally the county, and, in a disaster or emergency, the state. Under no circumstances was the federal government to become involved in public welfare. The Founders felt it would corrupt the government and also the poor. No constitutional authority exists for the federal government to participate in so-called social welfare programs.
A survey of Franklin s views on counterproductive compassion might be summarized as follows:
Compassion which gives a drunk the means to increase his drunkenness is counterproductive.
Compassion which breeds debilitating dependency and weakness is counterproductive.
Compassion which blunts the desire or necessity to work for a living is counterproductive.
Compassion which smothers the instinct to strive and excel is counterproductive.
Nevertheless, the Founders recognized that it is a mandate of God to help the poor and underprivileged. It is interesting how they said this should be done.
Franklin wrote: To relieve the misfortunes of our fellow creatures is concurring with the Deity; it is godlike; but, if we provide encouragement for laziness, and supports for folly, may we not be found fighting against the order of God and Nature, which perhaps has appointed want and misery as the proper punishments for, and cautions against, as well as necessary consequences of, idleness and extravagance? When ever we attempt to amend the scheme of Providence , and to interfere with the government of the world, we had need be very circumspect, lest we do more harm than good.
Nearly all of the Founders seem to have acquired deep convictions that assisting those in need had to be done through means which might be called calculated compassion.
Highlights from their writings suggest the following:
Do not completely care for the needymerely help them to help themselves.
Give the poor the satisfaction of earned achievement instead of rewarding them without achievement.
Allow the poor to climb the appreciation ladderfrom tents to cabins, cabins to cottages, cottages to comfortable houses.
Where emergency help is provided, do not prolong it to the point where it becomes habitual.
Strictly enforce the scale of fixed responsibility. The first and foremost level of responsibility is with the individual himself; the second level is the family; then the church; next the community; finally the county, and, in a disaster or emergency, the state. Under no circumstances was the federal government to become involved in public welfare. The Founders felt it would corrupt the government and also the poor. No constitutional authority exists for the federal government to participate in so-called social welfare programs.
Ever think we'd hear something like that coming from todays political "Statesmen"?! Sadly, only if they want to hear themselves talk.
I'm no genius or psychologist or psychiatrist... it just seems more involved when it comes to suicide! Money and the lack thereof, just seems more of a quick rationale.
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I'm sorry but he's correct. If the workers die, whether by accident or suicide, their family gets compensation. It's in the contract and the families of those who committed suicide did get the compensation. Please read the news before trying to ridicule someone.
Well pointed out.
wikipedia said:
You dont hear about all these other companies being dragged through the media circus.
Its because Apple is the "Company to Hate" atm. And the media being the sheep that they are and not letting the truth get in the way of a good story or a scoop.
Hell its easier to print a retraction on page 12 in fine print a few weeks after they have ruined someones reputation with front page slander. Im sure that everyone would be understanding if that happened to them.
Im waiting for the likening of Apple to Nazi Germany or Steve Jobs to Hitler, laugh now but one of these media whores will try it soon enough.... im looking at you Fox News!
As for the suicide thing...
Sure some of them are doing it for the money. But there are others that are sick before they start working there or die of "natural causes". You dont hear that statistic.
because it doesnt make hard hitting investigative journalism.
Yup. Isn't it like $10,000 payout?
Anywho 1 - 2% profits? The iPad workers are going to be livin' fat soon enough
True. By our standards this is not considered much. But in China that same amount can last for a long time.
Because a $500.99 (or even a $500.00) product historically will not sell as well as a $499.99 product. I seem to remember some study done on this and the conclusion was that the penny difference between a $0.99 cent product and one at $1.00 adds up to more sales overall and thus a larger profit in the long run.
Messed up trade agreements, slave workers in 3rd world countries. Gee, ever think of making them here? A few Americans could use a job. Oh, then Apple would have to charge $525 instead of $499? Sorry, forgot about the bottom line.
The world is NOT flat and never will be unless trade imbalance is fixed. And know what? It never will be because the race to greater profits means more than not only a token PR gesture to give the slaves that make Apple products a handout, but also to the very lives of very real people.
The world is NOT flat and never will be unless trade imbalance is fixed. And know what? It never will be because the race to greater profits means more than not only a token PR gesture to give the slaves that make Apple products a handout, but also to the very lives of very real people.
You forgot the extra "0" on the end of your estimated cost. it should read $5250.
If Apple were to make them in the USA they would be broke in a few weeks let alone years thanks to compensation claims, health benefits and every other money grab that we westerners take for granted.
People complain that the way Chinese workers are treated is immoral and wrong but that is because you come from a capitalist country. The people in China have a much different view on the world.
So what they do is benefit the state. The state then cares for their families.
The harder they work the more their families benefit.
They are not working to gain fame or fortune. But working to help their family unit as a whole.
That mentality may be something that western culture needs to take a look in the mirror at.
If you think about it from a Chinese point of view WE are helping them by offering them the jobs to be able to help benefit their families.
China is the world's richest country and USA is the world's poorest country. China has $2,447,000,000,000 foreign exchange reserves and USA has $13,004,960,375,583 debt. Each US citizen's share of this debt is $42,158. Market value of ICBC(Industrial and Commercial Bank of China) is $242 billion. PetroChina is more valuable than ExxonMobil, the biggest company in the USA. Should the poorest Americans still help the richest Chinese ???
Sorry i just don't love this. These factories are virtual slave / indentured servitude places.
instead of tossing in another 1-2% out of profits to pay them more, why doesn't Apple start manufacturing in places elsewhere, ie US, Canada.
It would be great to see Apple Manufacturing in North America again!!!!
instead of tossing in another 1-2% out of profits to pay them more, why doesn't Apple start manufacturing in places elsewhere, ie US, Canada.
It would be great to see Apple Manufacturing in North America again!!!!
The prices of Apple products would skyrocket. Do you want to pay $5000 for an iPad?
Yes, but how is any of that akin to what apple is doing?
Foxconn employees aren't lazy, weak or idle. By all reports they are very hard workers.
Yes suicides happen for a wide number of reasons. But financial difficulties is one of the major triggers.
This is why suicide rates surged during the great depression.
Chinese workers get paid very little. So they work very long hours, 7 days a week to make a living wage, and even then, can't afford to buy any of the products they slave to make.
And that situations breeds stress, depression and suicides. If you spend all your time working in a factory to make ends meet, rarely getting to relax or see the sun, you would be more likely to commit suicide too.
If they get paid more, and 1-1.5% of Apple's revenue is a HUGE amount of money, then they will be able to work fewer hours, they will feel like their hard work is appreciated, they will take more pride in their work because they know that 1% of the price of every iPad they make is going back into their pocket, and yes, they will be less likely to commit suicide.
To say that finances has no bearing on suicide rates is naive. Yes, there are lots of reasons why people get stressed, depressed and kill themselves, but money is very high on the list, and in a country like China, likely the number one reason.