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Yvan256

macrumors 603
Jul 5, 2004
5,081
998
Canada
I chuckle whenever i read comments like "i don't think i'll partake" and the like. When the time comes for this product to be rolled out, it'll be a success. [...] I'm excited for the iTunes subscription and i'd pay upwards to $29.99 a month for this package.

You're right, it could be a success. But how many people want to pay yet another monthly fee? Will it be 10%? 90%? We don't really know yet.

Not everyone listens to new music all the time. I, for one, don't want a monthly fee or a subscription for monthly music. I buy, at the very most, about 25$ worth of music every year, so unless we're talking about a plan for around 2$/month, I'll pass.

TV shows, on the other hand, is another debate. I don't want to buy TV shows, I'd rather pay a monthly fee to download, watch, delete. At 2$/episode it's way too expensive too (we don't have monthly/season passes yet in Canada, AFAIK).


[...] A subscription model for the iTunes Music Store will be the perfect solution to curb piracy. Now I don't have to search for hours for the new Yeasayer album, I can just load it up from iTunes. We're entering the age of the inconvenience of P2P transfers. When faced with taking 30-45 minutes searching for an album or five minutes waiting for a download...i'm going to take the five minutes. [...]

Your arguments already apply to any online media store, rental model or not. What you get from P2P varies so much in quality, too. And good luck trying to find obscure or old things. It's less trouble and faster to simply pay 1$/tune and get back to our lives.

The one thing I'm hoping Apple is fighting for: a world-wide store, with no countries limits. I know it's all about labels and contracts, but I'm hoping Apple is fighting for this. Countries limits, in the era of the 'net, is just plain pointless.
 

JML42691

macrumors 68020
Oct 24, 2007
2,082
2
Unless if this is going to be a subscription based idea, then I don't see it working for a cheap price.
 

rockosmodurnlif

macrumors 65816
Apr 21, 2007
1,088
96
New York, NY
This would be swell. I'd be willing to spend upwards of $9.99/month to have access to the library and browse through as much garbage (and not these barely representative 30 second samples) as I want so I can compile a list of CDs I'll get other places.

It would keep me from illegally downloading albums just to try them out. I'd maybe even think about $19.99/month (just for the simplicity of it all) but above that I'll just fire up my torrent and p2p clients.

And don't forget to integrate it with the wi-fi store. Wi-fi mobile streaming of the entire iTunes catalog?! :eek:

When faced with taking 30-45 minutes searching for an album or five minutes waiting for a download...i'm going to take the five minutes.
30-45 min for 'free'
5 min for 'not free'

Of course 'not free' is going to be quicker. If 'not free' wasn't quicker it wouldn't make sense to use it over 'free'.
 

MacJoe

Guest
Jul 3, 2003
41
0
North Carolina
For the record I'd gladly pay ~$75 extra for an iPod to have unlimited access to the iTMS for the life of the device, even with restrictions that you could only play the music back on that device alone, as long as:

Unless I'm missing something (and I could very well be), this gives Apple no incentive to produce devices with longer lives. It may even give Apple an incentive to produce devices that are designed to have shorter lives! So what if my current iPod dies and I buy a new one. Would the old music work on it or would I have to repurchase everything? This is starting to make old CDs sound good.
 

jonnylink

macrumors 6502
Jul 15, 2007
256
0
As a point of interest, iTunes Plus files wouldn't BE "sporadic" if the labels weren't trying to punish iTunes for being successful. All the majors are offering DRM-free music through Amazon.com's MP3 service now, there's nothing stopping them from offering that same DRM-free music on iTunes (except that they want to reduce Apple's power in the music-selling business and this is one way they're trying to do it).

I know, but that doesn't make it any more convenient. I also question why there is music on eMusic that isn't iTunes Plus. eMusic is all small labels so you'd think that labels like 4AD wouldn't care about "punishing" Apple.
 

jonnylink

macrumors 6502
Jul 15, 2007
256
0
Unless I'm missing something (and I could very well be), this gives Apple no incentive to produce devices with longer lives. It may even give Apple an incentive to produce devices that are designed to have shorter lives!

...The "Cure", of course, is to make everyone pay for their pending thefts up front. You can't buy an iPod without paying the "thief" charge. It's socialism. At some point it evolves into a TAX we all pay. Artists become employees of and paid by the government.

Interesting, we've already got so many pre-product conspiracy theories. So far my favorite one is where Apple becomes the government! All hail Steve Jobs President of the USA (United States of Apple):D

By the way, the incentive to create iPods that last is that people won't buy them if they have a short life. Or at least people won't buy as many *and* it will give the competition an opening to steal market share.
 

MattInOz

macrumors 68030
Jan 19, 2006
2,760
0
Sydney
Unless I'm missing something (and I could very well be), this gives Apple no incentive to produce devices with longer lives. It may even give Apple an incentive to produce devices that are designed to have shorter lives! So what if my current iPod dies and I buy a new one. Would the old music work on it or would I have to repurchase everything? This is starting to make old CDs sound good.

I mean if it's device specific then it better well have a warranty time frame.
But happens if the device lasts longer. They take the risk it won't last longer or well balance build to time frame vs time frame overrun costing them.

That is a seriously bad business model if you ask me. It's a no win, no happy campers, no happy suppliers.

You might as well rent or lease the whole device from them if your going to put main usage based on a rental model. Which still doesn't seem like a good model for Apple to get in to.

It's not really a repurchase it's a re-download, the first iPod had firewire which wasn't supported by most computers but was also the only game in town that could load the 5Gb device in reasonable time. sure it moved to usb2.
Can you really see them going to a fill by download.

What was it steve said about focus, focus is choosing not to do a lot stuff that might be cool but does fit right.
 

liberty4all

Guest
Jan 7, 2007
305
0
Watch out! Taxifornia is Hungry! iTunes Taxes coming?!

An $8 billion deficit in California sure makes politicians hungry for new taxes, the latest being a proposal to tax downloads from online stores such as iTunes and Amazon.

The most interesting comments in this article come not from the one proposing the tax hike but by Annette Nellen, a fellow at the New America Foundation: "Our tax base hasn't kept up with how we do business and how we live. The way we consume things have changed, but we still have a 1930s tax base."

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_1999326.php
 

lever

macrumors newbie
Mar 18, 2008
7
0
Unless I'm missing something (and I could very well be), this gives Apple no incentive to produce devices with longer lives. It may even give Apple an incentive to produce devices that are designed to have shorter lives! So what if my current iPod dies and I buy a new one. Would the old music work on it or would I have to repurchase everything? This is starting to make old CDs sound good.

Well, really, what added incentive does apple have to produce devices with longer lives now? The adder for itunes store unlimited access is not going to make apple a lot of money. Itunes doesn't today. It's the ipod that makes apple a ton of money. And, so, by your reasoning, apple today doesn't have an incentive to make an ipod with a longer life. I mean, if that was really the goal today, the battery would be consumer replaceable. The model Steve is pushing now is that you replace your ipod every 1-2 years as your current one ages, wears, and the new models have a few extra bells and whistles to seal the deal for you adding an itunes content fee won't change that.
 

lever

macrumors newbie
Mar 18, 2008
7
0
Yep. Artists should be happy spending lots of time and money just so they can express themselves. Who cares if they can't feed their families?

My, how dramatic. If you are an artist and cannot pay the bills with your art, I'm sorry, but find a new job, or find an audience, or find a more efficient way to produce your art. If you can't feed your family because you're using the food money to produce your art, well, you are irresponsible and that's not the world's fault. The world owes NO ONE a living. I respect the hell out of the guts it takes to be an artist, and if I like your art enough, and your price is right, I want to pay you for your work. But, if you can't make a living at it, well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. If you love it enough, it will be your avocation. If not, you'll dabble and get a serious day job. 'Nuff said.
 

JGowan

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2003
1,766
23
Mineola TX
I believe this work because I believe it would simply serve as a radio station for the Music labels. There's entirely too much music out their wanting our attention/money. We could never spend the time it would take to listen to all of the new music and certainly not pay for all of it. We only have so much time/money to afford to the pastime of music. Therefore, we rely on the radio to sample songs from any given album. We trust our favorite artists to continue to put out great stuff, album after album. We listen to our friends and critics when they rate the artist in question.

Ultimately, there's only so much time/money that can be devoted to music. Unless it was more mobile and we could sample on-the-go.

For that reason alone, I believe this could work. People MAY download thousands of tracks, but really only groove on mere dozens. But I think that in order to get the Music industry onboard with this, limitations must be set up…

1) I feel that it should only be bundled with the highest priced/best iPod/iPhone Apple makes. It just wouldn't be fair to offer a $50 premium for this service to those buying a $49 Shuffle. Also, Shuffles get their music transfered to them via the computer -- not safe enough for the music execs. More on that below.

Also, by offering it on the most expensive models, Apple would be able to add to the pile of money offered to the music companies ($50 from the customer/$50 from Apple: $100 for every new iPod/iPhone with the plan -- perhaps Apple kicks in even more, music labels all the happier.)

2) You could not play music on your computer with iTunes. You could not create a playlist and burn a CD of the music. In short, you could only listen to the music by the device that has the premium service. You cannot transfer any of the music to another iPod/iPhone you own. One service per device. Period.

3) You can't use any type of dock that will send the music to a home stereo system. You can only listen to the songs from either headphones or out of the iPhones mono speaker. Period.

4) Files are all 128kbps double-wrapped in security. Even EMI iTunesPlus music must be dumbed-down from its 256kbps. No exceptions.

Why all the restrictions? We don't like restrictions. No but without them, the music companies won't go for it… but with them in place…

… With these type of restrictions in place, I think everyone would be happy. Apple is selling lots of high-end players, the Customer is enjoying music that he has never heard nor, in many instances, would ever even consider buying. And the music industry is getting a nice influx of immediate cash plus the bonus of free advertisement of their music…

With all of the restrictions placed on this service, eventually what will happen en masse is that people will WANT to listen to many of the albums they've grown in love with in other ways: their cars, homes, etc. and will also want to have the music in its original uncompressed state. They will go out and buy real copies of their favorite CDs because, lets face it, headphones are ok but it could get a little old. People really want to listen out of their speakers. This simply serves as a try-it before you buy it-type system.

The way to distribute the music would simply be only through the Wi-Fi iTunes music store. A user already has video, photos and his favorite music on his unit already. He can only download so much at a time to sample it. He cannot transfer one note of that music to iTunes when he reconnects to his computer so there's no way to Hi-Jack the music. He simply listens on the device that been approved for the unlimited downloads. Apple creates an easy way to Delete on-the-go so he can grab music when he feels like within the wifi setting he finds himself in. That limitation will allow for a steady flow of new music to the iPod and people having to make real choices about whether they want the actual CD for everyday use in the car, for parties, work etc.

As I've said, people only have so much time/money for music. That's why piracy abounds. Also, I believe people buy the stuff they really want for a really perfect version of their music, but only pirate stuff they're simply curious about. Stuff they would never actually go into a music store and buy. And stuff they really wouldn't listen to that much either unless it was really good. Then they would, many times, go and purchase the unfettered version.

It's very much like Netflix. We rent a movie we're curious about, watch it and send it back when we we're done. However, the movie industry wins when a gem comes to our house in its red sleeve and we end up loving it. We want the ability to watch anytime we like. We want the supplemental discs of the purchased version. Now imagine if was an inferior version we were watching. Low compression and we could only watch it on one TV set. We'd want our very own version that looked and sounded amazing and that would work on any device we wanted. We would go buy that version, right?

Same principle applies here. There's real opportunity here for music companies to let us fall in love with new artists or artists we've never gambled on with our wallets. We fall in love and go buy the CD and the next time the same artist or group releases their next collection, we're standing in line at the store with our wallets open.
 

zygo

macrumors member
Dec 17, 2006
70
0
UK
re: JGowan

surely less restrictions will mean a greater user base?

This would mean increased advertising/promotion and would lead to a greater number of high quality/hard copy sales. Also increased revenue from more subscribers [in what ever form that charge comes].

All these restrictions will not convert the file-sharers ['pirates'] and isn't that half the point? Turn their habit into at least some revenue?

Also is the low quality file type restriction enough?
 

zygo

macrumors member
Dec 17, 2006
70
0
UK
Would it not be a better system to have it limited to your iTunes store account that allows transfers between your own devices? No hard copies can be made.

They should also incorporate into the store a way to mail order the cd/related products.

And at a lower rate offer the CD quality files + artwork with/without burning rights [limit the number of burns].

Bands/labels could offer high quality[premium rate] subscriptions under this system also.

Wouldn't something similar to this benefit everyone? [apart from other music retailers]
 

mikeinternet

macrumors 6502a
Nov 1, 2006
630
2
Oaklnad, CA
My, how dramatic. If you are an artist and cannot pay the bills with your art, I'm sorry, but find a new job, or find an audience, or find a more efficient way to produce your art. If you can't feed your family because you're using the food money to produce your art, well, you are irresponsible and that's not the world's fault. The world owes NO ONE a living. I respect the hell out of the guts it takes to be an artist, and if I like your art enough, and your price is right, I want to pay you for your work. But, if you can't make a living at it, well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. If you love it enough, it will be your avocation. If not, you'll dabble and get a serious day job. 'Nuff said.

I'm so happy that I didn't need to say this.
 

TwelfthAG

macrumors newbie
Feb 5, 2008
14
0
iTunes Subscription + iPhone with Mobile iTunes would equal any music at anytime, and that would be cool. :cool:

That could be in addition to the current model, so people can still own the music if they really want it as well. :D
 

Anderson3133

macrumors regular
Jan 23, 2008
186
0
In other words, a unlimited subscription based music service for a one time fee?

I don't see that working out.

I disagree. A lot of Canadians own Apple iPod's and don't bother paying for itunes music because it is not enforced here, and also because itunes can become quite pricey if you want to fill up an iPod full of music. So for places like Canada, it is an excellent idea to get sales boosted, because I am certain itunes music is not huge here.
 

azma

macrumors newbie
Mar 24, 2008
1
0
In the recend SDK presentation, I noticed that the itunes logo on the iphone had changed. Did anyone else notice that? (see picture) What is interesting is that the old logo had an arrow pointing downward- this icon doesnt anymore. Perhaps this suggests that there will be an unlimited streaming service- something like that. I thought i'd connect the dots on these two pieces of info... what do you guys think?
 

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ErnieFrance4

macrumors newbie
Dec 6, 2004
21
0
I would love it

I think this sounds great. There are many songs I just like to listen to for a few times and then they get old. This would be great for me.
 

saxkidsam

macrumors newbie
Jun 12, 2008
1
0
It's been a while since March 18th now so I was just wondering what the
experts opinion on whether or not this will actually happen and if it will, when are some of the most likely times it could be announced. Thanks.
 

JML42691

macrumors 68020
Oct 24, 2007
2,082
2
In the recend SDK presentation, I noticed that the itunes logo on the iphone had changed. Did anyone else notice that? (see picture) What is interesting is that the old logo had an arrow pointing downward- this icon doesnt anymore. Perhaps this suggests that there will be an unlimited streaming service- something like that. I thought i'd connect the dots on these two pieces of info... what do you guys think?
The main reason for this is to make a more noticeable difference between the App Store icon and the iTunes Store icon, because otherwise the only big difference would be the change in color.
 

BOSS10L

macrumors 6502a
Jan 13, 2008
588
0
Upstate NY
People MAY download thousands of tracks, but really only groove on mere dozens.

Agreed. I never understood the whole "Torrent as much as I can as fast as I can" mentality. I've got over 100 DVDs, 50+ Blu-Ray and HDDVD titles, in addition to 200 music CDs and a few hundred iTunes tracks. All purchased legally. I don't have time to watch/listen to them all, yet I know people who have (mostly) ill-gotten collections that would make mine seem insignificant in comparison. I just don't understand people's reasoning of having it just because they can. If a P2P song gets downloaded and never gets listened to, was it ever really pirated? (to play on a popular saying) :D

I'm all for a built-in fee on the iPod, and possibly a subscription-based model if it is reasonably priced. I just don't buy enough music to warrant spending $20 a month. $5 or $10 might be good, but it should offer unlimited downloading capabilities. Most of the stuff I'd get wouldn't be contemporary music anyway, so their Miley Cyrus empire will be safe for another day. ;)
 
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