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Developed in India, Manufactured in China, envisioned in California.
I recently said that and if that happens it will be even more sad.
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This will also allow them to: 1) not worry as much about H1B allocation, 2) get the same talent at a lower hourly rate, and 3) utilize their offshore funds.

Financially it would make sense to: Develop in India -> Design in California -> Manufacture in China

It would at least make us feel a little warm in our heart to see the "Designed in California" words on the Apple products we buy, even though effectively all of the supply chain and manufacturing contribution is coming from non-US firms.
Do you realize what if would mean if all the Apple dev were moved to India? Perhaps you should travel around the U.S and see what that has done to the nation that built china from the bronze and and then wreaked it's own industrial base, and for what?
 
I recently said that and if that happens it will be even more sad.
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Do you realize what if would mean if all the Apple dev were moved to India? Perhaps you should travel around the U.S and see what that has done to the nation that built china from the bronze and and then wreaked it's own industrial base, and for what?

I don't think you caught on to the sarcasm in my initial message. I completely agree with your sentiment. We exported millions of manufacturing jobs...for what? So we can buy cheap junk in Wal-Mart? Was that really worth it?
 
No "political offence" intended, but I don't get Apple's focus on developing countries like China or India. It's like the country's population is the only thing they care about other than if they are the US itself.
I'd say it's a good way to increase their presence in those markets with massive future potential, while also creating local goodwill through job creation, all the while spending some of that massive off-shore capital they won't repatriate at the current tax levels. For Apple a win-win-win.
 
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#49
great apple, keep shipping jobs out of USA. Abandon your bread and butter where you charge an arm and a leg. It just seems all IT jobs are taken over even here in the USA by India. Mind you i am an outsider and I notice this. Where are all the current graduates going to find jobs? Is anyone in USA going to IT fields anymore?
 
#49
great apple, keep shipping jobs out of USA. Abandon your bread and butter where you charge an arm and a leg. It just seems all IT jobs are taken over even here in the USA by India. Mind you i am an outsider and I notice this. Where are all the current graduates going to find jobs? Is anyone in USA going to IT fields anymore?

Sure. Recipe for success: "Designed and Built by Apple in the USA, by natural-born US citizens. All raw and manufactured materials produced in the USA by USA-owned businesses employing only natural-born US citizens. Sold only in the USA to natural-born citizens of the USA."
 
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I can only tell you what I have told others: Speak with Indians about the topic instead of arguing "What you say is a lie, because it is not politically correct." It's a pretty strong thing to call someone a liar (or to use a fancy word: "dishonest") based on the one single argument of political correctness.

As far as the huge numbers of extremely talented individuals go: That is an urban legend. The universities put out huge numbers of graduates. That is true. But where do you get the idea from that there is a very high number of extremely talented individuals? Is thos based on statistics or hearsay? It's the latter, isn't it?

I'm sorry, what credibility do you have to make a statement on what does and what doesn't constitute an urban legend as it relates to India? Your anecdotal experience of "knowing a lot of Indians"? Sorry, this is ridiculous. You have no data or evidence to back up your claims other than ostensibly attending Indian weddings. If you want stats, look at standardized test scores since there's no other normalizing statistic. Indians score on part with Americans despite vastly larger numbers. Look at the top universities in India (say, the IITs) and look at how many graduates of these elite universities (many of whose grads far exceed the test scores of their western counterparts) do not leave the subcontinent. I could go on, but please stop acting like you're an expert on the subject with the limited real information you have to go on.

In the US or Europe, people go into engineering, because they enjoy dealing with technical and mathematical issues. It's called "affinity". That is not always the case in India. In India, there is a HUGE pressure from families on the children to become engineers. That implies that a lot of people enter India's universities without any affinity for engineering. But an affinity for a topic is a precondition for being "extremely talented. So yes, there are extremely talented people coming out of India's universities, but they are a small portion. And I know people will want to twist this into racism again, but once again: It's not because Indians are dumb. It's because someone who wanted to become an architect but studied electrical engineering because his father wanted him to will not become a great engineer.

This shows your surface level understanding of India, and a lack of understanding of underlying reasons or nuance. It's true that there is a lot of pressure on kids to become engineers, but it's not just because "dad wants me to" - it's because there are literally millions of kids you are in competition with for university slots and jobs, and the most surefire option is in the technical field. That said, there are still huge numbers of business and even liberal arts graduates. But those liberal arts grads will have limited job prospects in an environment that's 100 times as competitive as anything we're familiar with in the western world. What you also don't take into account is that the very same phenomenon exists in the western world. Having attended a top-5 engineering school in the US, at least half of my American-born colleagues were not "born engineers" nor had any real intrinsic motivation to be one. Many were technology-inclined, but most saw it as a great way to make a great salary out of college, work at great companies, and kick off a career in a high-growth field.

I have worked both in the US and in Europe. When I came to America and dealt with Indian engineers for the first time, I thought like you: "Wow, these guys are so amazingly great! I can't believe there's a million of them each year." Really, their skill was humbling. Then I went to Europe and dealt with development teams in India. So I can say from very personal experience that there is a huge difference in quality between these three groups. I have worked with Indians in the US, in Europe and in India. I have had very extensive conversations with them (heck, one third of my Facebook friends are Indians). I have attended Indian weddings. I have interviewed Indians for job positions. I manage Indians, and I have an Indian in the management chain above me. All my contacts at my customer are Indians. What I have is extensive experience over 20 years, which is the opposite of prejudice. I bet you have no experience on the topic - which is equal to prejudice.
How's this for experience: I'm Indian. The very fact that you are trying to support your surface-level observations with "talk to Indians" tells me how few you must have really talked to. The first thing you would have found if you really did, is that there's nothing close to consensus on such a topic, and unless you are speaking only to incredibly self-aggrandizing Indians, most do not believe the cream in the Indian crop exists exclusively in America. I'd highly suggest exploring India and its people with an open mind, instead of keeping whatever conceptions you've developed using your innate prejudices and using select anecdotal experience to confirm them.
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I'm not going to waste my time debating an India apologist
Well I suppose I should thank you for saving me from debating an India ignoramus.
 
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"Well I suppose I should thank you for saving me from debating an India ignoramus."

Lol - the pot calling the kettle black - as usual.
 
Sure. Recipe for success: "Designed and Built by Apple in the USA, by natural-born US citizens. All raw and manufactured materials produced in the USA by USA-owned businesses employing only natural-born US citizens. Sold only in the USA to natural-born citizens of the USA."

Apple used to manufacture in the USA, but then like most other companies shipped its factories overseas to China and now even intellectual facilities are being shipped at a fast pace. So what happens to the work force in USA? What happens to those that worked in the factories? You think having jobs at the silicon valley head quarter in USA is enough? The puny (in sales volume) factory for the mac desktop in USA is just a pretend PR move to say we have factory a in USA. It's greed for profit that is leaving the workers in USA in the dust. Mind you again, I am not from USA but reside in USA and see it with my own eyes. (my IT programming job has been outsourced - 3 different companies - shipped to India and Russia) Its ok to open shops in other countries, but to not have majority of the employment in the USA is leaving workers in USA at a disadvantage. Not just apple, but see what most other major manufacturers, pharmaceuticals etc are doing shipping jobs away. You can't tell me it is fair to ship majority of manufacturing etc out to China, India, Mexico, Vietnam, Russia etc!
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I don't think you caught on to the sarcasm in my initial message. I completely agree with your sentiment. We exported millions of manufacturing jobs...for what? So we can buy cheap junk in Wal-Mart? Was that really worth it?

I realize it means nothing, but i have boycotted walmart since 15 years ago for that reason. I can't boycott every company but I have chosen the biggest of the evils.
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As someone who IS American, what brought America to where it is now is the blind thought that America is invulnerable. American Exceptionalism dates all the way back to the horrible manifest destiny days. You yourself said that the best would go to the US, or Europe. What an insult to Indians who choose to stay in their own country. Guess what? None of these poor unwashed nations need your rescue, nor mine. They are perfectly capable of competing and making adult decisions on their own.

And I'll be the first to say that often Americans make idiotic decisions, which just leads to more undesirable outcomes. Then they wring their hands, cry out "How did this happen?!" and demand some compensation for what they think they deserve. It's embarrassing.


I am not American but live and work in America as a programmer (paid out of pocket for my school here in USA and got undergraduate in CS and feel i contributed to American society). Guess what, my whole department was shipped out to India and Russia in 3 different jobs since 2004. The positions shipped out were programming jobs and the people i worked with were Americans majority that were really good programmers and engineers. And yet, still lost our jobs. Where did we make the idiotic decision? I read somewhere something like this "this (america) is the only civilization that gave up its wealth without a single shot fired"
 
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Sure. Recipe for success: "Designed and Built by Apple in the USA, by natural-born US citizens. All raw and manufactured materials produced in the USA by USA-owned businesses employing only natural-born US citizens. Sold only in the USA to natural-born citizens of the USA."
Should be sold around the word and shipped by U.S shippers.
 
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