Apple to Partner with O2 for iPhone UK? Orange in France?

[Frazzle]

This *is* macRUMORS after all

I don't see why so many people are taking all of this as fact.

I think that...
- the EU iPhone *is* 3G, already designed and ready for production
- the deal with EU carriers was signed some time before January 2007
- inclusion of Voda and T-Mobile logos in current firmware is significant
- the deal will be announced soon, but 3G will be announced in Q4
- in the meantime, the software will get MMS and Flash and all other nitpicks
- Apple will make Leopard / iLife launch a big event
- by December, upgrading the phone will not be taken badly in the US
- they could offer some trade-in or step-up program in the US if backlash is worse
- they may even offer to unlock iPhone 1.0 when you buy 2.0 so you can sell former easily

Let's feed the hype and keep speculating an getting worked up over nothing!

 

[capoditutti]

O2, if they have won the deal, have to get a few things sorted if they're to attract customers in a sensible way. I've been with O2 for seven years now, but only 6 months of that as a contract customer. The rest of the time I've been on PAYG, simply because their contract tariffs (for me) didn't offer as good value as their PAYG tariffs, and you will feel the pinch if you dare exceed the limits set by your tariff. Their coverage, where they say it's available, is great; even comparable to Vodafone in my opinion, and I'd know having used a Voda Contract line at work for six years.

1. I know they need to introduce a good data tariff to compete with T-Mobile's £7.50 'unlimited' deal...
2. I know they need to sort out the current costing structures related to calling their customer service departments - it costs an arm and a leg, and it shouldn't!
3. Their call plans aren't exactly 'generous' compared to the other networks here in the UK, and certainly nothing like what US customers are getting - any chance of a change there?

 

[SayCheese]

I don't see why so many people are taking all of this as fact.

I think that...
- the EU iPhone *is* 3G, already designed and ready for production
- the deal with EU carriers was signed some time before January 2007
- inclusion of Voda and T-Mobile logos in current firmware is significant
- the deal will be announced soon, but 3G will be announced in Q4
- in the meantime, the software will get MMS and Flash and all other nitpicks
- Apple will make Leopard / iLife launch a big event
- by December, upgrading the phone will not be taken badly in the US
- they could offer some trade-in or step-up program in the US if backlash is worse
- they may even offer to unlock iPhone 1.0 when you buy 2.0 so you can sell former easily

Let's feed the hype and keep speculating an getting worked up over nothing!

Good post and I hope that all of your points are correct.

Time will tell........

 

[daneoni]

I don't see why so many people are taking all of this as fact.

I think that...

- inclusion of Voda and T-Mobile logos in current firmware is significant

The inclusion is for Roaming. T-Mobile/Vodafone cover alot of ground all over the world

 

[Plutonius]

I don't see why so many people are taking all of this as fact.

I think that...
- the EU iPhone *is* 3G, already designed and ready for production
- the deal with EU carriers was signed some time before January 2007
- inclusion of Voda and T-Mobile logos in current firmware is significant
- the deal will be announced soon, but 3G will be announced in Q4
- in the meantime, the software will get MMS and Flash and all other nitpicks
- Apple will make Leopard / iLife launch a big event
- by December, upgrading the phone will not be taken badly in the US
- they could offer some trade-in or step-up program in the US if backlash is worse
- they may even offer to unlock iPhone 1.0 when you buy 2.0 so you can sell former easily

Let's feed the hype and keep speculating an getting worked up over nothing!

You will not see 3G until next year.

The logos are in the firmware because it doesn't cost anything to put them there and Apple had no idea who it would be partnering with (those are 2 of the biggest companies and prefered partners).

 

[EricNau]

Your plan in your home country has you covered. When you roam into another country you use whatever network is available that your phone supports and simply pay roaming charges, which are scheduled to be regulated and capped in all EU countries shortly. So it won't affect your ability to travel and use your phone.

However a lot of Europeans have multiple SIM cards and swap the cards depending on where they are to always pay the best rates. This would not be possible with the iPhone unless someone unlocks it. Thus, this could be a negative for those who are used to SIM swapping.

Just curious, what if you are in a country other than your 'home country' but you are still under the same network? ...Will you be charged roaming fees? If so, is that cheaper than paying roaming fees through another network?

When traveling abroad, will phones automatically try and grab your default network, or does it simply use the best signal available?

 

[skoops]

Just curious, what if you are in a country other than your 'home country' but you are still under the same network? ...Will you be charged roaming fees? If so, is that cheaper than paying roaming fees through another network?

When traveling abroad, will phones automatically try and grab your default network, or does it simply use the best signal available?

Mostly YES, however there are very few exceptions. "3" (three.co.uk, drei.at etc.) offers "Roam like home" service which lets you use all "three" networks worldwide as if they were your home network (no roaming charges)

I'm a T-Mobile Austria customer, and when I travel to germany I get logged into T-Mobile Germany automagically. I can however choose a different network manually. On the SIM-Card (or the phone) there's a preferred-networks-list which can be updated by the operator via "over-the-air-update" and the phone will always try to log into a preferred network first before trying the other available networks.

Roaming from T-mobile A to T-Mobile D is cheap, but not always the cheapest option.

 

[Devil's Refugee]

CPW in race again

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/07/06/cniphone106.xml



Let's hope not, again it would mean Vodafone would not win the carrier deal as CPW no longer supply Vodafone contracts.

 

[Porco]

I'm bored of the UK network rumours now. Is there any of them that hasn't been 'tipped to win', the 'front-runners' or been 'fighting hard' now?!

It would be hilarious if Apple signed deals with all of them and it's just been about keeping the stories in the media.

 

[Digitaljim]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/07/06/cniphone106.xml



Let's hope not, again it would mean Vodafone would not win the carrier deal as CPW no longer supply Vodafone contracts.

I hope not.

The Carphone Warehouse is a horrible little chain of shops. It usually smells in them and the staff look like football hooligans. Why does Apple need a middle-man retailer anyway?

Not too fussed about the carrier to be honest, they're all much alike: thieving rip-off merchants with deliberately poor customer service. Although I have heard good things about 3 in the past.

 

[whooleytoo]

I was picking some new Macs up for a friend at.. an O2 store here, and was suprised just how Mac-centric the shops are. Even though it's an official phone network store, roughly half the store is selling music players (mostly iPods), accessories and Macs.

The large flat-screens over the counter had impressive demo videos going through the iLife applications and their features, not selling phones! It was as impressive as many Apple Stores.

Given all this, you'd have to wonder if O2 didn't already have a "foot in the door" in this deal.

 

[Project]

I was picking some new Macs up for a friend at.. an O2 store here, and was suprised just how Mac-centric the shops are. Even though it's an official phone network store, roughly half the store is selling music players (mostly iPods), accessories and Macs.

The large flat-screens over the counter had impressive demo videos going through the iLife applications and their features, not selling phones! It was as impressive as many Apple Stores.

Given all this, you'd have to wonder if O2 didn't already have a "foot in the door" in this deal.

o2 sell Macs?

 

[whooleytoo]

o2 sell Macs?

Yup - not only do they sell Macs & iPods but they're better setup, presented and advertised than at any other store I've been to. Often I've walked by and none of the window advertising is phone related, it's all iPod & Mac advertising & promotions.

 

[Donnacha]

Yup - not only do they sell Macs & iPods but they're better setup, presented and advertised than at any other store I've been to. Often I've walked by and none of the window advertising is phone related, it's all iPod & Mac advertising & promotions.

Sure, but you live in Cork, Ireland, which, as Apple's European service and manufacturing center, is an unusually pro-Apple town - it make sense for them to sell Apple stuff on the side. I don't recollect them doing the same elsewhere in Ireland or here in the UK.

 

[Donnacha]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/07/06/cniphone106.xml



Let's hope not, again it would mean Vodafone would not win the carrier deal as CPW no longer supply Vodafone contracts.

No, this is just a re-hash of CPW quotes from a few days ago, typically lazy journalism from the Telegraph.

The only new info is that Vodafone's stock dropped 1% on "rumors" that they'd lost the iphone but you can be pretty sure that most of those selling their shares are doing so based on pretty solid info.

In situations like this, both Vodafone and T-Mobile's hands are tied with regard to official announcements/press releases etc, but word gets out and that is what prompts a one-day drop as big as that.

 

[whooleytoo]

Sure, but you live in Cork, Ireland, which, as Apple's European service and manufacturing center, is an unusually pro-Apple town - it make sense for them to sell Apple stuff on the side. I don't recollect them doing the same elsewhere in Ireland or here in the UK.

In theory that sounds great, but in practice Cork can be a dreadful place to buy Macs & Apple gear.

Perhaps though it is just individual O2 stores, but I doubt it. I can't imagine any one branch spending so much on customised Apple lighting/displays, on multimedia info/advertising videos, and the staff seemed very well informed on iPod & Mac technologies too.

 

[Donnacha]

In theory that sounds great, but in practice Cork can be a dreadful place to buy Macs & Apple gear.

Many cities in the UK don't have anywhere you can go and handle Macs, so, trust me, you're doing pretty well if you have a phone shop that sells them.

I can't imagine any one branch spending so much on customised Apple lighting/displays, on multimedia info/advertising videos, and the staff seemed very well informed on iPod & Mac technologies too.

The managers of pretty much all phone shops are under tremendous pressure, every day, to do whatever it takes to increase profits. If, as seems likely, a higher than the average percentage (5%) of Corkonians use Macs or even work for Apple, it makes sense to use that as a device to attract interest. If someone rolls in the door to have a play with the new imac or whatever, you might be able to sell them a phone. In Manchester, they sells football club merchandise in phone shops; here in Edinburgh, all the female staff are forced to work naked.

As for the staff being very well-informed, again, it's going to be much easier to hire staff who are Apple-aware in Cork than, say, Wexford.

 

[ictiosapiens]

In reply to some posts... First of all I don't want to bankrupt apple and my temptation to go for a Samsung is not an attempt to bankrupt them. I have every piece of Apple equipment and gadget at home and I'm very satisfied. But I hate their IPhone selling practices.

A good company should try to encourage the market to give more choice to consumers. What Apple is doing with the Iphone sounds more like Microsoft practice. It's probably true that power corrupts.

Of course I like the Iphone better than many other phones, but I won't let a hardware maker decide on service providers for me. This is my freedom and my choice. I want to get the service provider that I feel is best for me. Not for Apple's profits. If I get a company that costs 30% more than one of my choice, parts of it will go to Apple. But didn't I pay the full price for the hardware when I purchased the phone?

As for 3G and what I need to do with it, it's quite simple. First of all video. I want to be able to download quality video. Then I want the phone to act as a modem for my MacBook Pro. Then I want to download mail attachments with large pictures. And I want to surf the net very fast.

I'm not asking for too much because the technology has been out there and the fact that the 3G chip would be too large or drain batteries sounds like complete bull to me. How does competition come out with smaller phones that have 3G, good battery life, and even GPS in some cases?

It looks like Apple's choice is dictated by one element: the $30 or so in savings they get by using old technology leftovers. If that was the only sacrifice I had to make for their profit I would probably give in. But I feel they ask too much for.

The Iphone is a great telephone and I'm sure it's fine to many. But I feel that its price plus the expensive voice and data plans that Apple forces you to take will end up making a hefty difference in one year. A difference that could buy me a Macbook. And most importantly, I don't think that this way of selling should be encouraged at all.

If all phone makers learned from Apple we would no longer have a choice of service. Then why not have a large monopoly in the first place?

I missed this great post. Excellent points raised IMO. If they want to charge the equivalent of $599, apple should just sell it on the apple store and let us choose operators. (let the operator decide if they want to support visual voice mail and that way they would be competing for the iphone buyers)

 

[Manic Mouse]

Best post today. IMHO. If they want to charge the equivalent of $599, apple should just sell it on the apple store and let us choose operators. (let the operator decide if they want to support visual voice mail and that way they would be competing for the iphone buyers)

Yup, totally agree. It's absolutely insane(ly greedy) that Apple get a cut of your contract. It's not like they're not already making over 50% profit on the hardware (they cost $265 to make).

 

[Project]

Yup, totally agree. It's absolutely insane(ly greedy) that Apple get a cut of your contract. It's not like they're not already making over 50% profit on the hardware (they cost $265 to make).

Completely disagree.

The iPhone is not being subsidised by AT&T, which means that they make a bigger cut from an iPhone sale than they would any other phone they sell that they subsidise. Hence the reason for taking a small % of the monthly contract fees (which other manufacturers do, namely RIM)

Your profit margin fails to take into account production, r&d, software development, distribution, marketing, sales, support and a whole host of other costs that go into making a phone.

 

[Donnacha]

I'm amazed at the extent to which a lot of (clearly very clever) people on this forum are misunderstanding what Apple is doing here.

Steve Jobs has indicated (sorry, I can't find the link) that exclusive partnering is a short-term strategy necessary to establish the iphone and break the strangle-hold of the telcos over the manufacturers.

You can be 100% sure that, as a manufacturer, Jobs agrees with you that, if you have paid for your device, you should be able to use it with any network you want, just like a computer.

Unfortunately, in the mobile market as it stands, the telcos build the cost of "subsidized" phones into their tariffs. Most people aren't too smart about money and think they are somehow getting a "free" phone but, of course, they are actually paying through the nose for devices that the telcos force the manufacturers to cripple. Essentially, the telco becomes the manufacturer's sole customer, giving them way too much power. This situation seriously castrated early leaders such as Nokia.

What Apple is shooting for is a situation in which the telco essentially becomes a commodity supplier of connectivity and bandwidth, with no control over who you buy your music or other services from. Of course, the telcos absolutely do not want to cede this control because being a commodity supplier is far, far less profitable. Uniquely, however, Apple is in a position to threaten them with a more immediate threat: losing massive market share, right now, to a hated competitor.

Believe me, this situation has driven all the top telco executives insane - even the winner is ultimately looking down the barrel of a gun. What do you think is going to happen in 2 years when their exclusivity agreement finishes?

You are going to have a market in which customers have become accustomed to far more freedom, flat-rate data plans, lower call costs (because an over-inflated "cost" of the phone is no longer factored in) and no-one is going to be willing to step back into a telco-controlled environment. Suddenly, any telco will be able to provide service to your iphone but not control it - you will be buying your iphone and, then, separately, carefully selecting the best telco and plan for it. That is a serious revolution.

And what do Apple get out of this? Suddenly, if the decision to buy a new phone is completely divorced from the network you use or the current time left on your connectivity contract, it becomes a great deal easier to buy the latest and greatest iphone on the day it's released, just like buying an ipod or Mac!

The initial period of exclusivity is, unfortunately, the only way to break the backs of the telcos. You should all be rejoicing that someone has the vision, balls clout to pull it off.

I respect the concerns raised here but, really, think about it: all of this is necessary and, in the long-run, seriously good news.

 

[Manic Mouse]

I'm amazed at the extent to which a lot of (clearly very clever) people on this forum are misunderstanding what Apple is doing here.

Steve Jobs has indicated (sorry, I can't find the link) that exclusive partnering is a short-term strategy necessary to establish the iphone and break the strangle-hold of the telcos over the manufacturers.

You can be 100% sure that, as a manufacturer, Jobs agrees with you that, if you have paid for your device, you should be able to use it with any network you want, just like a computer.

Unfortunately, in the mobile market as it stands, the telcos build the cost of "subsidized" phones into their tariffs. Most people aren't too smart about money and think they are somehow getting a "free" phone but, of course, they are actually paying through the nose for devices that the telcos force the manufacturers to cripple. Essentially, the telco becomes the manufacturer's sole customer, giving them way too much power. This situation seriously castrated early leaders such as Nokia.

What Apple is shooting for is a situation in which the telco essentially becomes a commodity supplier of connectivity and bandwidth, with no control over who you buy your music or other services from. Of course, the telcos absolutely do not want to cede this control because being a commodity supplier is far, far less profitable. Uniquely, however, Apple is in a position to threaten them with a more immediate threat: losing massive market share, right now, to a hated competitor.

Believe me, this situation has driven all the top telco executives insane - even the winner is ultimately looking down the barrel of a gun. What do you think is going to happen in 2 years when their exclusivity agreement finishes?

You are going to have a market in which customers have become accustomed to far more freedom, flat-rate data plans, lower call costs (because an over-inflated "cost" of the phone is no longer factored in) and no-one is going to be willing to step back into a telco-controlled environment. Suddenly, any telco will be able to provide service to your iphone but not control it - you will be buying your iphone and, then, separately, carefully selecting the best telco and plan for it. That is a serious revolution.

The initial period of exclusivity is, unfortunately, the only way to break the back to the telcos. You should all be rejoicing that someone has the vision, balls clout to pull it off.

I respect the concerns raised here but, really, think about it: all of this is necessary and, in the long-run, seriously good news.

Good points. I should probably have more faith in Apple...

 

[lstdonsldr]

t-mobile

what do you think the possibilities of using the European T-mobile with a US T-Mobile SIM Card?

 

[Project]

I'm amazed at the extent to which a lot of (clearly very clever) people on this forum are misunderstanding what Apple is doing here.

Steve Jobs has indicated (sorry, I can't find the link) that exclusive partnering is a short-term strategy necessary to establish the iphone and break the strangle-hold of the telcos over the manufacturers.

You can be 100% sure that, as a manufacturer, Jobs agrees with you that, if you have paid for your device, you should be able to use it with any network you want, just like a computer.

Unfortunately, in the mobile market as it stands, the telcos build the cost of "subsidized" phones into their tariffs. Most people aren't too smart about money and think they are somehow getting a "free" phone but, of course, they are actually paying through the nose for devices that the telcos force the manufacturers to cripple. Essentially, the telco becomes the manufacturer's sole customer, giving them way too much power. This situation seriously castrated early leaders such as Nokia.

What Apple is shooting for is a situation in which the telco essentially becomes a commodity supplier of connectivity and bandwidth, with no control over who you buy your music or other services from. Of course, the telcos absolutely do not want to cede this control because being a commodity supplier is far, far less profitable. Uniquely, however, Apple is in a position to threaten them with a more immediate threat: losing massive market share, right now, to a hated competitor.

Believe me, this situation has driven all the top telco executives insane - even the winner is ultimately looking down the barrel of a gun. What do you think is going to happen in 2 years when their exclusivity agreement finishes?

You are going to have a market in which customers have become accustomed to far more freedom, flat-rate data plans, lower call costs (because an over-inflated "cost" of the phone is no longer factored in) and no-one is going to be willing to step back into a telco-controlled environment. Suddenly, any telco will be able to provide service to your iphone but not control it - you will be buying your iphone and, then, separately, carefully selecting the best telco and plan for it. That is a serious revolution.

And what do Apple get out of this? Suddenly, if the decision to buy a new phone is completely divorced from the network you use or the current time left on your connectivity contract, it becomes a great deal easier to buy the latest and greatest iphone on the day it's released, just like buying an ipod or Mac!

The initial period of exclusivity is, unfortunately, the only way to break the back to the telcos. You should all be rejoicing that someone has the vision, balls clout to pull it off.

I respect the concerns raised here but, really, think about it: all of this is necessary and, in the long-run, seriously good news.

Thumbs up.

Hence why the iPhone is a disruptive device. The theory is evidently being played out in Europe right now with Apple playing all the big telcos against each other. Its a pretty genius gameplan. I hope sales continue to be brisk and they pull it off.

 

[Ninja Dom]

what do you think the possibilities of using the European T-mobile with a US T-Mobile SIM Card?

Won't happen or work with the iPhone.

We have enough problems as it is with tourists who have Vodafone branded handsets from other countries and buying a UK Vodafaone Pay As You Talk Sim Card - and it ultimately not working in their foreign phones.