Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple to Partner with O2 for iPhone UK? Orange in France?
- Thread starter needthephone
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
You do make sense, but let's brake down an average contract:
Say, an o2 N95 for instance...
Price of the handset= £0
Monthly fee= £25(+£7-£10 for data) 12 month contract= £300 (+£120 if interested in data)
Grand total(including voice(50 mins, and 200 texts, data and phone)= £420 and in 12 months time having the option of getting a new handset for free.
An N95 unlocked(as O2 provides it) on its own, is £499 from Nokia and other retailers.
The networks get the phones at prices unimaginable for consumers due to the volume at which they buy.
So, really, I don't see how we could win, by paying £XXX for the handset, and then signing up to a monthly plan, regardless of how cheap it is.
Oh, and the price of the handset being £0 is based on actually going to the network shop and negotiating a bit...
Your figures are wrong. You wont find a free N95 for £25 a month. Its only free on a £50 a month contract. If you want a £25 a month contract on O2 for the N95, you have to pay £250 up front.
Like I said on my earlier post, you will on the shop if you negotiate.(I did)
Hell, my girfriend got it for free on an upgrade, on a £30 tariff and with VODAFONE!!!(hint: not the cheapest network)
If you are not into that, you can always take it on a £50 and change it in 3 months, which would add £60 to your yearly total, which still makes it cheaper that buying it from nokia, and you'd get quite a few minutes...
Okay, let's use this example to get an idea of how Apple's manouevres are working in our interests, rather than against them. Obviously, this situation is far from black and white, so, we should bear in mind that we're probably both a little bit right and a little bit wrong.
You can currently buy an N95 online, unlocked and new from an established retailer for around £380 inc VAT and my guess is that Nokia are retailing them for around £260 not inc VAT. A telco with 02's massive customer base is probably paying around £150 per unit and, at the end of the day, that's probably what Nokia gets for the vast majority of N95 it produces, unlocked sales representing an extremely rare opportunity to make a real profit.
This squeeze means that Nokia and the other manufacturers don't have anywhere near as much money as they would like to spend on R&D and they certainly don't have the margin for error that would allow them to take true risks.
It also means that we, as customers, are essentially getting £100 worth of components in our "£499" phone.
Now, in the case of the iphone, because it isn't coming to us via the pricing illusion machine of the telcos, what you're actually getting is a phone that represents ...
A. a huge R&D invest that no manufacturer feeding from the existing system could ever afford but that Apple could because they are flush with ipod case AND they have no intention of accepting the existing system...
B. a massive risk that no other manufacturer would be cocky enough and, to be fair, skilled enough to take.
C. a bundle of components that are pretty much match the cost of the phone, because we already know that Apple are taking a much slimmer than usual margin on the phone in order to break into this market, because their ipod cash reserve allows them too, and because, like the console makers, they also know that component costs will lower throughout the life of this model, particularly if, as they are gambling, it's a big success.
No, we may or may not agree on whether the iphone is a better phone than the N95, but I feel it is and that it reflects it's, say, £200 + VAT "true" cost, just as the N95 reflects it's £100 + VAT "true" cost.
One of my main arguments against buying through the telcos is that I don't want some lying **** telling me that I'm getting a "free" phone worth £499 when I know they paid £150 and, because of their stranglehold, the manufacturers couldn't even afford a decent amount of R&D.
Now, I don't know about your figures, you must have gotten some sort of special deal from O2 but, according to their website, the N95 is only free if I spend £45 per month on a minutes and text package, DATA NOT INCLUDED:
£30 x 24 months, 600 mins 1000 txts, £90 for the phone
£35 x 24 months, 800 mins 1000 txts, £50 for the phone
£45 x 24 months, 1200 mins 1000 txts, phone is FREE
Now, if we were to go for a SIM only deal (still on a monthly contract), we discover that o2 are actually charging us an additional £10 or £15 per month for the phone, meaning an additional £240 or £360 for the phone for which we have already have paid £90, £50 or gotten for free. This means that we are essentially paying the current retail price for a phone that they bought for half the price - exactly the same sort of outrageous mark-up that the hire-purchase cowboys have been charging people with poor mathematical abilities for years. Subsidized my arse.
NOW, HERE'S THE REAL KILLER, THE AREA WHERE APPLE MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE: DATA.
When you buy an N95, at any tariff, o2 will sell you a £3 per month data "bolt-on" which will give you ... wait for it ...
... 2MB of data. Per month.
Want an extra MB? Possibly download a few dozen emails or look at a couple of webpages?
That'll be an extra £3 per ****ing MB, my friend.
And these retards wonder why 3G hasn't taken off in the mainstream!
O2 don't do unlimited (which, in current telco terms, means a fair use cap of around 3GB), so, for the kind of unlimited access Apple are insisting upon, left to their own devices o2 would have charged you somewhere in the region of £9000 per month.
Do you see the problem here?
Do you understand now why the telcos have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the new century?
I just noticed, in their business section, that they offer up to 1GB for £45 + VAT per month but, in real terms, that's still in cloud cuckoo land.
Here's the deal that will let you know that we, the consumer, have, with Apple's help, won:
£39 inc VAT x 24 months, 450 mins, 5000 txts, UNLIMITED 3G DATA and we'll buy our own damn phone, thank you very much.
Then, in 2 years, when the exclusive deal lapses, just watch the prices tumble as every telco scrambles to get into the commodity 4G connectivity game - Game, Set and Match to Apple, Us and our Shiny, New, Cutting-Edge iPhones
Then, in 2 years, when the exclusive deal lapses, just watch the prices tumble as every telco scrambles to get into the commodity 4G connectivity game - Game, Set and Match to Apple, Us and our Shiny, New, Cutting-Edge iPhones
there by giving apple an almost monoply hold over the market as they do with the mp3 player market. is that really good for the consumer you must ask?
How does Apple forcing the carriers to charge a reasonable amount, abandon their proprietary content-locks and create a mass market for commodity-priced mobile broadband hurt the other manufacturers, anymore than the ipod's mainstreaming of MP3-players hurt the other manufacturers, other than forcing them to raise their game?
Sure, the ipod dominates the MP3-player market, but it does so on merit and brand trust; I think you misunderstand the actual meaning of the term "monopoly".
The eco-system and mainstream acceptance that the ipod has played a large part in creating has, however, has benefited all the other MP3-player manufacturers. The iphone will have the same disruptive but ultimately beneficial effect on mobile broadband device manufacturers.
Hmmm.... You are in the market for a zunephone? Evidently the question is what's the point of being on this forum if you don't want the iPhone to have a larger market share?
The situation is indeed not black and white. Yes, the telcos' marketing methods can short-change the consumer. But to pretend that Nokia and the like are not making money on subsidised handsets is nonsense. Have you seen the recent financials from Nokia, SE? On the other hand, Apple just want a bigger slice of the pie. That is the only reason they want to sign up carriers on exclusive deals (which does NOT work in the consumer's favour, at least not directly). They want to replicate a little bit the iPod model, which gives Apple a big say/share in distribution/day-to-day use of the device. Let's salute Apple for bringing out an innovative new machine, which carries, by the way, a huge estimated profit margin. But let's be realistic and accept that the best possible benefit is that it will force other manufacturers such as Nokia, SE, Samsung, etc., to raise their game and bring out effective competitors. And if these prove to be successful, then perhaps it will persuade Apple to drop their insistence on exclusive deals. And then perhaps we will be allowed to buy unlocked devices at reasonable prices and shop around for the best operator for our needs. That is surely the best arrangement for consumers.
Orange is the most international of EU carriers, but O2 is lightyears better when it comes to mobile internet deals and customer services.
I'm with O2 right now, so this is the best godamn news I could have heard. This means I can sell my measly PEBL and get a bad boy iPhone right away rather than pay off the contract first.
I'm with O2 right now, so this is the best godamn news I could have heard. This means I can sell my measly PEBL and get a bad boy iPhone right away rather than pay off the contract first.
I thought Arun Sarin may have entertained him at the Grand Prix on Sunday but didnt see him there
iPhone will have 3G..
I have gotten it confirmed that Apple is in the final phases of testing an iPhone with 3G and a 5mp camera for the european market. My source is very credible and works for one of the subcontractors actually manufacturing components for the iPod and iPhone (among them the 3G chip in the EU iPhone.). Although he said that it's unlikely for them to be able to ship greater volumes before christmas.
just my 5p.
cheers
I have gotten it confirmed that Apple is in the final phases of testing an iPhone with 3G and a 5mp camera for the european market. My source is very credible and works for one of the subcontractors actually manufacturing components for the iPod and iPhone (among them the 3G chip in the EU iPhone.). Although he said that it's unlikely for them to be able to ship greater volumes before christmas.
just my 5p.
cheers
ditto as well as the fact that this is the persons first ever post
however 5MP it is not beyond the realms of possibility
Indeed (ie nokia N95). Esp. come november this will be quite common.
However given Apple's tendency to go for lower specs I'd believe 3MP more.
I have gotten it confirmed that Apple is in the final phases of testing an iPhone with 3G and a 5mp camera for the european market. My source is very credible and works for one of the subcontractors actually manufacturing components for the iPod and iPhone (among them the 3G chip in the EU iPhone.). Although he said that it's unlikely for them to be able to ship greater volumes before christmas.
just my 5p.
cheers
Really and 5 Mp camera call me a doubting Tomas. But a good read.
I understand your scepticism. I myself would react in the same way. And ofcourse this is a nonconfirmed rumor for anyone but me who heard it first hand.
As someone said before 5mp will be standard come november. Nokia has it in the N95 and SE just released K850i so to compete with them it's a must.
In Januari I'll get mine with 3..
cheers.
As someone said before 5mp will be standard come november. Nokia has it in the N95 and SE just released K850i so to compete with them it's a must.
In Januari I'll get mine with 3..
cheers.
iPhone euro 3G theory
Right, although nothing been signed, we know that the iPhone will eather be on 02 or Vodafone for the UK relese BUT the only network that supports EDGE in the UK is Orange. So the iPhone will have to work on GPRS, even SLOWER then EDGE. I was just thinking that mabee Apple would somehow get 3G before the UK relese, or we will have pre-dial-up speeds.
Just a thought.
Right, although nothing been signed, we know that the iPhone will eather be on 02 or Vodafone for the UK relese BUT the only network that supports EDGE in the UK is Orange. So the iPhone will have to work on GPRS, even SLOWER then EDGE. I was just thinking that mabee Apple would somehow get 3G before the UK relese, or we will have pre-dial-up speeds.
Just a thought.
My mistake, 02 then. Eather way no one mentioned Orange and I dont think any network will start providing EDGE just for the iPhone.
Ok, now I'm only guessing here. But since I'm not a UK resident I was just considering the options for Apple when it comes to choosing which company to partner up with. It would be devastating for the brand if they only went with one partner throughout europe thus there is a need for two or more. Logically speaking (as in "if I was Apple") you'd try to get the number of partners down to a minimum. So, if we look at the larger operators in europe we end up with Vodafone, 3, T-mobile, Telefonica, Orange and maybe one or two more. So, if you combine two maybe three of those to get the best coverage throughout europe you'd end up with Vodafone, 3 and Orange (just because the froggies are lightyears behind everyone else..).. This combination would actually give you 3g coverage in all of western europe thus beeing the logical choice (as I said "if I were Apple")..
Just a theoretical statement. But if you take into account that Apple considers UK and "rest of europe" as separate markets they may very well do something special in the UK.
cheers
Just a theoretical statement. But if you take into account that Apple considers UK and "rest of europe" as separate markets they may very well do something special in the UK.
cheers