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Apple should not have paid this fine.

Regardless of what the law may say, they were morally right in this matter, and Amazon were the culprits.

This is the same US government that wishes to trample on our freedom and snuff it out forever.

Yes, Apple should be above the law.
Laws trample our freedom and snuff them out forever.
Apple should write there own laws and put Tim on Mt. Rushmore.
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Tin foil hat. You may want to remove it.

That and the kool-aid iv.
 
The biggest reason that Swedish librarys have so few e-Books to lend out is that they are much more costly in payment to publishers per issue lent out than paperbooks. Librarys can not afford lending e-books instead of paperbooks.
 
Apple should not have paid this fine.

Regardless of what the law may say, they were morally right in this matter, and Amazon were the culprits.

This is the same US government that wishes to trample on our freedom and snuff it out forever.
Umm, sorry, but in this case Apple was clearly in the wrong, they set a clause that stated if a publisher wants to be in the Apple store, then they cannot sell for less anywhere else. That is called price setting and is indeed illegal.

In all honesty, I think the fine is way to small, it should be equal to something like 80% of all ebook sales until the policy was changed.
 
Umm, sorry, but in this case Apple was clearly in the wrong, they set a clause that stated if a publisher wants to be in the Apple store, then they cannot sell for less anywhere else. That is called price setting and is indeed illegal.

In all honesty, I think the fine is way to small, it should be equal to something like 80% of all ebook sales until the policy was changed.

How dare you answer with logic and reason! Somehow, I think it will be lost on the person you are replying to.

;)
 
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Is everybody on here daft? Amazon innovated the ebook market with the kindle. That's why they pretty much owned it. Apple knew they couldn't compete on price, so they broke the antitrust laws, which are put in place to protect consumers. They knew this was wrong and did it anyway. Prices were raised. I ended up paying more because of it, millions of Americans did too.

Apple should have to pay this fine. It's pretty damn clear they were in the wrong.

The Apple apologists on this site are sometimes just frustratingly baffling.

Wrong on the two important points here.

Apple wanted to sell books using the same model they sell apps by. I.e. the publisher/developer sets whatever price they want and Apple takes a 30% cut. That's why you're wrong about them not being able to compete on price -- it wouldn't matter to them what the prices were.

To do this they had to get publishers to agree to that model, which the publishers preferred anyway (because they didn't like Amazon devaluing book prices). Apple negotiated with them separately to get those agreements. Nothing wrong with that on either side.

Afterwards Amazon stopped selling ebooks at a loss (nominally selling them for $9.99 but paying $12.50 wholesale). So yes, prices went up, but do you think Amazon was going to sell ebooks at a loss forever? They had about 80% market share and no one wanted to get into the market to compete with them because no else wanted to burn money like that. Once Amazon became the de facto sole source for ebooks they could start charging even more than prices are now. You were going to pay higher prices sooner or later. The uproar over this is just because it happened to be sooner.
 
Wrong on the two important points here.

Apple wanted to sell books using the same model they sell apps by. I.e. the publisher/developer sets whatever price they want and Apple takes a 30% cut. That's why you're wrong about them not being able to compete on price -- it wouldn't matter to them what the prices were.

To do this they had to get publishers to agree to that model, which the publishers preferred anyway (because they didn't like Amazon devaluing book prices). Apple negotiated with them separately to get those agreements. Nothing wrong with that on either side.

Afterwards Amazon stopped selling ebooks at a loss (nominally selling them for $9.99 but paying $12.50 wholesale). So yes, prices went up, but do you think Amazon was going to sell ebooks at a loss forever? They had about 80% market share and no one wanted to get into the market to compete with them because no else wanted to burn money like that. Once Amazon became the de facto sole source for ebooks they could start charging even more than prices are now. You were going to pay higher prices sooner or later. The uproar over this is just because it happened to be sooner.

You're not right in your assessment either.
 
Apple negotiated with them separately to get those agreements. Nothing wrong with that on either side.
Except that this is not what was determined during the trial: Apple was found to have knowingly and directly participated and facilitated a horizontal price fixing conspiracy. The court opinion is pretty clear on these points:
For the reasons described earlier in this Opinion, there is abundant direct and circumstantial evidence, and this Court has found, that Apple knowingly and intentionally participated in and facilitated a horizontal conspiracy to eliminate retail price competition and to raise the retail prices of e-books. Apple made a conscious commitment to join a scheme with the Publisher Defendants to raise the prices of e-books.
Furthermore:
The finding that Apple engaged in an illegal conspiracy is based not simply on a finding that the “conspiratorial explanation is more likely than not,”; it is based on powerful direct evidence corroborated by compelling circumstantial evidence.
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Afterwards Amazon stopped selling ebooks at a loss (nominally selling them for $9.99 but paying $12.50 wholesale). So yes, prices went up, but do you think Amazon was going to sell ebooks at a loss forever? They had about 80% market share and no one wanted to get into the market to compete with them because no else wanted to burn money like that. Once Amazon became the de facto sole source for ebooks they could start charging even more than prices are now. You were going to pay higher prices sooner or later. The uproar over this is just because it happened to be sooner.
Also this point is questionable. First of all Amazon was selling selected titles below price as loss leaders, but as far as I understand it was overall profitable in the ebook market. It's debatable whether loss leaders sales should apply with book titles but as far as I know nobody questioned the legality of this practice yet. This means they could have kept selling ebooks with this strategy forever since the strategy was actually profitable.

Furthermore, even assuming Amazon operating at loss, the predatory pricing scheme you describe to be actually illegal requires the market to have a barrier-to-entry so that when the "predator" increases prices competitors would have difficulties in getting back into the market they left. I doubt this would be the case with ebooks.
 
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Apple's iBooks is crap anyway, limited only to Macs & iOS devices.

Amazon may not be perfect, but the content is available on all the platforms, as it should be.
I wouldn't call them crap, but being limited to Apple only platforms is definitely a negative. IBooks and the books I bought all work great. But I read a lot and my two most preferred platforms are Kindle and Nook for the reason that they work on practically anything.
 
How does Amazon have a monopoly? Publishers are free to set what ever price they want to sell to Amazon (and Amazon is free to set what price they want to sell to readers). Publishers can sell where ever they want.

Apple wanted all books to be same price across all platforms and all stores (Apple can't compete on price so they wanted to force it with an illegal contract), and got a large group of different publishers together at the same time to discus this (illegal).

Edit: and just having a monopoly isn't illegal.
Having a monopoly is not illegal, correct. Using money from other areas of your business to sell a given category of product at a loss so as to prevent entry of new competitors and to financially ruin existing competitors, however, is illegal. That's what Amazon does when they enter a market, and that's why I'm surprised Apple's actions were deemed illegal. They increased competition and the health of the market in significant and measurable ways.
 
Having a monopoly is not illegal, correct. Using money from other areas of your business to sell a given category of product at a loss so as to prevent entry of new competitors and to financially ruin existing competitors, however, is illegal. That's what Amazon does when they enter a market, and that's why I'm surprised Apple's actions were deemed illegal. They increased competition and the health of the market in significant and measurable ways.

And they did so by colluding. Which is illegal. I'm unclear why you are surprised.
 
What a corrupt legal system we have where Amazon is rewarded for being a monopolist and publishers are punished for fighting back. Surely this wasn't what the authors of the Sherman Act intended?
 
What a corrupt legal system we have where Amazon is rewarded for being a monopolist and publishers are punished for fighting back. Surely this wasn't what the authors of the Sherman Act intended?

They aren't being punished for fighting back. They are being punished for colluding. I think that's pretty clear. There's nothing stopping publishers and other companies that want to enter the industry from going against Amazon and other competitors. However, they should be doing that within the confines of the law.
 
Using money from other areas of your business to sell a given category of product at a loss so as to prevent entry of new competitors and to financially ruin existing competitors, however, is illegal. That's what Amazon does when they enter a market, and that's why I'm surprised Apple's actions were deemed illegal.
Again, as far as I know this is not what Amazon was doing with ebooks: Amazon was selling selected titles as loss leaders but they were not losing money in the ebooks market.

Furthermore it's actually not illegal to engage a predatory pricing scheme if competitors re-entering the market would likely prevent the "predator" from recouping its losses.

On top of that, the impact on the market plays a role only if the business practice is to be evaluated under the rule of reason to find out whether it violated the antitrust act or not. Business practices evaluated under the rule of reason can be either legal or violations depending on many factors including the impact on the market.

This is not the case with Apple's business practices, which were found to be per se violations of the antitrust act. In per se violations the actual impact of the business practices on the market is irrelevant and the practice is illegal period.
In the United States, illegal per se often refers to categories of anti-competitive behavior in antitrust law conclusively presumed to be an "unreasonable restraint on trade" and thus anti competitive. The United States Supreme Court has, in the past, determined activities such as price fixing, geographic market division, and group boycott to be illegal per se regardless of the reasonableness of such actions. Traditionally, illegal per se anti-trust acts describe horizontal market arrangements among competitors.
 
Considering all the shady crap that Amazon pulls constantly, I'm disappointed that Apple would be the one to be called out on this. Furthermore, the iBooks Store is pretty small compared to the entire market. IMO it hasn't really ever gained much traction, despite coming installed on hundreds of millions of devices. But sure, fine them hundreds of millions of dollars.
 
Apple should not have paid this fine.

Regardless of what the law may say, they were morally right in this matter, and Amazon were the culprits.

This is the same US government that wishes to trample on our freedom and snuff it out forever.
They now have no choice but to pay the fine, however this whole eBooks case does not pass the 'smell test'.....
 
Considering all the shady crap that Amazon pulls constantly, I'm disappointed that Apple would be the one to be called out on this. Furthermore, the iBooks Store is pretty small compared to the entire market. IMO it hasn't really ever gained much traction, despite coming installed on hundreds of millions of devices. But sure, fine them hundreds of millions of dollars.

This logic is faulty. Apple is a mega-billion dollar company - but they shouldn't be penalized because their iBookstore isn't a huge money maker?

Perhaps if Apple opened up their iBook to be available cross-platform, it would be a better value for people to purchase their books.
 
Perhaps if Apple opened up their iBook to be available cross-platform, it would be a better value for people to purchase their books.

That's a consequence of the DRM, not Apple's fault. Even if Apple wanted to, there's no way to make their books available on the e-ink kindles since that's a totally closed platform.
 
That's a consequence of the DRM, not Apple's fault. Even if Apple wanted to, there's no way to make their books available on the e-ink kindles since that's a totally closed platform.

They could create an iBooks app for android and for the amazon store though... just like they allow Amazon to have an app in their store...
 
While I'd like to see that happen, it would be very un-Apple like IMO.

You are forgetting about the Apple music app for android devices, and before that itunes for windows. The original iPod was mac only. The ipod didn't really sell well until it was compatible with MS Windows.
 
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Apple should not have paid this fine.

Regardless of what the law may say, they were morally right in this matter, and Amazon were the culprits.

This is the same US government that wishes to trample on our freedom and snuff it out forever.

Apple commits a crime. The SCOTUS confirms that a crime has been committed. You say
'Apple should not have to pay the fine'. Wow, really? They broke the law. And for the non-lawyers like yourself, 'morally right' has nothing to do with being legal or, in Apple's case, illegal.

Apple is a great company. It has great products, but they are not perfect. And occasionally, they screw up, as they did in this case. This has nothing to do with 'trampling on our freedom'. This is a legal issue, and, Apple broke the law and it was confirmed by the highest court in the land. Period.
 
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