Apple to Stick with Samsung for A6 Chip Production After All?

[lilo777]

Apple is larger than Samsung, and Is their biggest customer, so absolutely.

Apple is not larger than Samsung. It has higher market capitalization but Samsung is bigger in many categories. Quote:


Samsung, though, is already bigger than Apple in terms of revenue. It's forecast to report $137 billion in 2010 revenue, more than double the $65 billion Apple took in during its most recent fiscal year.


And Samsung spends 10 times more than Apple on R&D

 

[kdarling]

Many people have small hands. Women tend to have smaller hands too. I doubt they'd make a phone with a larger screen.

Most of the people I know with Android phones are women.

They appreciate the larger screen sizes partly because they make it easier to use capacitive touch while having (even slight) fingernails.

 

[chrmjenkins]

Apple is not larger than Samsung. It has higher market capitalization but Samsung is bigger in many categories. Quote:


Samsung, though, is already bigger than Apple in terms of revenue. It's forecast to report $137 billion in 2010 revenue, more than double the $65 billion Apple took in during its most recent fiscal year.


And Samsung spends 10 times more than Apple on R&D

And represents 10% of South Korea's GDP. It's a monster company.

 

[*LTD*]

And Samsung spends 10 times more than Apple on R&D

Although from their mobile offerings, coulda fooled me.

However, they do much more than mobile, as we all know.

 

[shompa]

This article is probably not true. I put it amongst the Ipad2HD/Ipad3 rumors that was technically impossible to deliver this year.

To manufacture chips at Samsung/TSMC Apple needs to design 2 different chips. You can't take the tapeout from TSMC and manufacture it Samsung.

Apple have taped out a chip at TSMC and got back test wafers during the summer. It would be wasteful to redesign the chips to Samsung.

If Samsung is going to manufacture A6, we should already hear about a tapeout. You need 6-12 month lead time for a chip to be manufactured.

TSMC have said that they will start to deliver 28nm during Q4, under 3% of revenue. I haven't seen anywhere that Samsung is ready for manufacturing at 28 nm.

All evidence points to that TSMC will produce A6 ARM-15 SoC. Samsung will continue produce the A5 as long Apple products use it.

ARM15 quad cores will be real interesting. Faster then the first generation Macbook Air = fast enough for mass market. April it was reported that Apple is combining iOS and OSX into one operating system. This operating system is on the ARM prototype Macbook air that have been leaked.

 

[tigress666]

So let's just clarify this can we please?

You are publicly announcing you will not buy any future Apple phones if they increase the size of the current screen as you disagree with it being any bigger?

Just to clear this up.

He never said that.

I don't want a bigger screen either for not just the holding it in one hand, but also the fitting it into my pocket or purse. Or for that matter battery life. And honestly, they either don't change the resolution in which case I don't even see the point of increasing the screen (ooh the text got a tiny bit bigger) or they change the resolution and all the sudden you have developers having to worry about getting their apps to be compliant and having two versions or only catering to old iphones or the new ones.

That being said, it is one thing that might convince me to get a 4S over a 5 if they did put a bigger screen. But... I'm willing to see the 5's entire package and judge if it has other things that make up for what I consider a down side (if it isn't significantly sped up over the 4S and/or not better battery life or cheaper storage though I might consider just a 4S. It just depends on what the 5's entire package is). And who knows, maybe Apple will be able to put that screen in and do a good compromise for my concerns about a bigger screen.

But, honestly, if we are just talking screen size, I don't think the benefits of a slightly larger screen outweight the cons of it.

 

[johncrab]

My attorney believe there is more show than substance in this very public fight between the two companies. There is some real fire but by appearing to knock heads, companies can avoid run-ins with regulators a lot better if those regulators really believe there is knock-down marketplace competition taking place. So this could be good for Apple in the long run. An interesting angle.

 

[heisetax]

Bigger can be better

When will people let the "bigger screen" rumor die? There's a reason why it is the size it is and it shouldn't change—this is why. It's not a tablet and bigger isn't always better.

My Android smartphone has a bigger screen than the iPhone. The iPhone has a bigger screen than the BlackBerry. So your argument lost part of its only valid size pint even before we get started. At what point does a device go from a small portable phone to a table is really an answer that each person has to decide. Some fell that the old dumb phones are as big as things should be. They just take Apple's small & pretty is better.Those with larger screens may already be approaching the size than many people including some that do not think that the iPhone has a big enough screen.

I do not believe that Apple will make a bigger screen. I was thinking about getting an iPhone when my current contract is over with Sprint. This would require e to get a smaller screen size. As I have turned 65 a year ago, size does matter. Even though I have an iPad I still like my phone to be big enough to see & use easily. I know that my wife is not ready to give up her Android Smartphone for an iPhone. She use the iPad more than I do. Plus when the new iPad comes out we will have an early preorder. This is because size does mater. 9.7" works, but 10.1" would be better. But here it is only marginally better. With something as small as the iPhone the difference is big.

 

[Glideslope]

Well, this looks positive. Good for jobs in Austin, TX anyway.

Nice to see the line between Samsung Chip Fab/Samsung Mobile is still clearly planted. I retract my previous statement about no Samsung Chips in the iP 5.

While a business decision at heart, TSMC was not like a Bowl of Mashed Potatoes & Gravy.

It will be very interesting to see how this relationship pans out over the next 18m.

 

[bretm]

When will people let the "bigger screen" rumor die? There's a reason why it is the size it is and it shouldn't change—this is why. It's not a tablet and bigger isn't always better.

There's a also a good reason for 16:10 screen instead of 16:9. It works beautifully for handling 4:3 AND 16:9 video. When watching 4:3 video - say an old Twilight Zone on Netflix (my choice) I can zoom it to fill the screen. On a 16:10, it only cuts off a small part of the top and bottom to make it fill. If I do the same to a 16:9, it cuts off only a small part of the left and right to fill the screen. However, if you make the screen 16:9, then 4:3 footage has to be enlarged so much that it starts cutting off heads or important information.

I've pointed out the thumb issue before. Although obviously most people would be using their RIGHT thumb.

The thumb issue is also kind of personal. I mean, people with large hands (and big baggy pockets) might be more comfortable with a larger screen.

 

[Eugene-DL]

Why not manufacture their own?

Does PA Semi and Intrinsity have their own foundry? If not, who produces their chips?

 

[chrmjenkins]

This article is probably not true. I put it amongst the Ipad2HD/Ipad3 rumors that was technically impossible to deliver this year.

To manufacture chips at Samsung/TSMC Apple needs to design 2 different chips. You can't take the tapeout from TSMC and manufacture it Samsung.

Apple have taped out a chip at TSMC and got back test wafers during the summer. It would be wasteful to redesign the chips to Samsung.

If Samsung is going to manufacture A6, we should already hear about a tapeout. You need 6-12 month lead time for a chip to be manufactured.

TSMC have said that they will start to deliver 28nm during Q4, under 3% of revenue. I haven't seen anywhere that Samsung is ready for manufacturing at 28 nm.

Which may mean they were never on TSMC for 28nm. It's also possible Apple taped out on both foundries. When you're talking about moving millions of iOS devices, the cost of security may have been worth it to them (although I doubt it).

It's important to note that Samsung's 32nm process is up and running and can be converted directly to 28nm. Right, from Samsung's own white paper.

http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...nloads/systemlsi/Foundry_32-28nm_ds_final.pdf

Also, Samsung claims to have 28nm customer designs taped out:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...-outs-28nm-process-node-2ghz-smartphone-chips

All evidence points to that TSMC will produce A6 ARM-15 SoC. Samsung will continue produce the A5 as long Apple products use it.

ARM15 quad cores will be real interesting. Faster then the first generation Macbook Air = fast enough for mass market. April it was reported that Apple is combining iOS and OSX into one operating system. This operating system is on the ARM prototype Macbook air that have been leaked.

There's not any evidence one way or the other regarding which architecture they'll choose to utilize for A6. It's even possible they could go the Qualcomm route and make a core so custom that it is disingenuous to compare it to any specific ARM cortex iteration.

Does PA Semi and Intrinsity have their own foundry? If not, who produces their chips?

Whoever they contract to do so (and design to their process). Having a foundry is expensive and doesn't make business sense for apple.

 

[Laird Knox]

Apple should spend a billion dollars (of it's $70+ billion of cash on hand) and build its own chip plant here in the US, and be done with all of this back and forth.

Yeah, just like that. Why didn't they think of this before??

A quick stop at the local Fab-mart should do the trick. Might need help getting down off of the top shelf though...

 

[Glideslope]

Does PA Semi and Intrinsity have their own foundry? If not, who produces their chips?

Texas Instruments for PA.

 

[Ieo]

If the chips are already being manufactured state-side, labor savings isn't a factor....so why not just use some of the huge cash reserves they have and build/buy their own chip foundry? Save money by cutting out the middle man as well as the supply constraints, setbacks, etc associated with doing business with another party. They already design the chips themselves, and with the amount of iToys they sell they can certainly keep them busy and make it a worthwhile investment.

 

[bassfingers]

Apple should spend a billion dollars (of it's $70+ billion of cash on hand) and build its own chip plant here in the US, and be done with all of this back and forth.

Oh yeah, that's definitely less work and cheaper than just picking a supplier

 

[lilo777]

This article is probably not true. I put it amongst the Ipad2HD/Ipad3 rumors that was technically impossible to deliver this year.

To manufacture chips at Samsung/TSMC Apple needs to design 2 different chips. You can't take the tapeout from TSMC and manufacture it Samsung.

Apple have taped out a chip at TSMC and got back test wafers during the summer. It would be wasteful to redesign the chips to Samsung.

If Samsung is going to manufacture A6, we should already hear about a tapeout. You need 6-12 month lead time for a chip to be manufactured.

TSMC have said that they will start to deliver 28nm during Q4, under 3% of revenue. I haven't seen anywhere that Samsung is ready for manufacturing at 28 nm.

All evidence points to that TSMC will produce A6 ARM-15 SoC. Samsung will continue produce the A5 as long Apple products use it.

ARM15 quad cores will be real interesting. Faster then the first generation Macbook Air = fast enough for mass market. April it was reported that Apple is combining iOS and OSX into one operating system. This operating system is on the ARM prototype Macbook air that have been leaked.

Switching foundries is not such an easy thing. If Apple did that, they would not be able to deliver A6 next year. Besides, we know for a fact that Appe has not switched yet. Here is an article from Digitimes:

TSMC to visit Apple for more talks

Cage Chao, Taipei; Jessie Shen, DIGITIMES [Thursday 6 October 2011]

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) has sent a 60-member team, which includes staff from its IC design service partner Global UniChip, to Silicon Valley-based Apple for more talks about its upcoming A-series processor, according to industry sources. Issues including TSMC's 28nm process yields and patents will be discussed.

TSMC has declined to comment on the reports, citing client confidentiality.

The visit to Apple is to assure TSMC and Global UniChip's full support, the sources indicated. TSMC has a commitment to providing Apple mass production yields on 28nm for manufacturing the next-generation CPU used Apple's iOS devices, while ensuring licensed ARM IP to prevent infringement disputes.

Global Unichip announced in July that the company has licensed a broad range of ARM IP, including Cortex processor and Mali GPU cores, targeting specifically entry-level smartphones and low-cost tablets, high-performance tablets, and smart TVs.

Previous reports quoted industry sources as saying that Apple has signed a foundry partnership agreement with TSMC. Global Unichip reportedly will help TSMC handle printed circuit board designs for Apple's future processor.

 

[Nungster]

When will people let the "bigger screen" rumor die? There's a reason why it is the size it is and it shouldn't change—this is why. It's not a tablet and bigger isn't always better.

Amen brother! FFS If I wanted to put a tablet in my pocket I would grab my iPad! as it is, my 3gs inside an otterbox is one kick-ass hunk of tech in a large ass plastic element resistant structure.

Yes I said 3gs because AT & T Business Premier Fracked up my pre-order and now I am delayed for two weeks.

 

[OceanView]

Now just forget the lawsuits and start innovating.

 

[mazz0]

Start the haters complaining about having the same resolution on a bigger screen.

But then again, if Apple increased the resolution too, they'll complain about how developers would have to update their graphics.

What can I say? Haters gonna hate.

Maybe you just witness a lot of hate because you make stupid, obnoxious comments like that and it makes people hate you?

I disagree with you, I think increasing the screen size but keeping the same number of pixels (thus decreasing the actual resolution, in terms of DPI) would make an inferior experience and isn't something Apple are likely to do. Does this make me a hater? I usually get called a fanboy. I don't think I am a hater, so please don't call me one.

 

[ipoppy]

"Don't bite the hand that feeds"...ummm....but who feeds who?

 

[hstewart]

My thought is Samsung is not stupid,

They want Apples iPhone and iPad business - money talks

Also the problem is not with Samsung chip division but mobile division.

My guess is also Samsung is having some interesting inter-division talks.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Suppliers are suppliers.

And Apple will continue the lawsuits against Samsung on the mobile front, and Samsung will just roll over and continue to serve Apple's needs.

Sounds more to me like Apple is running back to Samsung because the grass wasn't greener.

 

[Thunderhawks]

2. Smaller docking connector. How about either a MagSafe and/or Thunderbolt docking connector, Apple? If the need to sync through a cable is truly gone forever, Apple could use a straight MagSafe connector for power only. You would just snap it on without needing to make sure it's facing the right way.

Or, if Apple wants to go all the way, iDevices could be inductively charged and there would be no need for any connector. Not sure how "green" that is. I think inductive charging tends to be physically hot, which indicates wasted energy. We'll see.

After so many iphone and iphone generations I am wondering why Apple doesn't at least make the plug in flexible, i.e. side connections.

I buy the cables 30 at a time and they always break at the connection where the cable goes in.

Also, I have to scratch up the correct side, so it can be felt, because when I am driving or it's dark it is difficult to look which way is the right side up.

Would be so easy to mold a bump or raised logo on that side.

 

[JHankwitz]

When will people let the "bigger screen" rumor die? There's a reason why it is the size it is and it shouldn't change—this is why. It's not a tablet and bigger isn't always better.

I totally agree with seanwes. The phone needs to be smaller (but not necessarily thinner), if anything. If you want the 3.5" screen to appear as 4", hold it 15% closer. It's the resolution that counts, not the screen size. If you need a larger screen, get an iPad.

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Apple should spend a billion dollars (of it's $70+ billion of cash on hand) and build its own chip plant here in the US, and be done with all of this back and forth.

Money does not a chip plant make. Apple's expertise is innovation and developing stuff that just works. Chip making is a far cry from that, focusing on bleeding-edge manufacturing technologies and controls. They need to continue doing what they do best.