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Who cares? Nobody. Next story.

P.S. The reason everything is outsourced is because of UNIONS. (GREED)
Unions are created from people to lazy to work for themselves and live off your hard earned money.

Hmmm... It couldn't possibly be greed by another party? (I am not denying unions can greedy --- I do disagree with the lazy claim.) In any case, may I propose multiple parties are the driver behind outsourcing?

Of course, if you aren't pro-unions why would you be bothered about outsourcing?
 
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You wouldn't expect Apple to make just one size of laptops would you? Same thing with Ford and their pickups, different strokes for different folks.

I'm positive that Apple would rather make a single laptop for everyone. It makes things simpler for them, for developers, and for consumors. The problem is that the laptop market would never accept such a thing since it has been this way for years, while that is essentially how Apple has done things since the iPhone's inception. I don't think you can blindly compare markets like that.
 
Bigger batteries, more NAND, bigger antennas, bigger aperture/camera components, speakers. They could do some fantastic things with the larger dimensions.

That's right. Because everyone here wants bigger everything in the iPhone.

No thanks. I hope Apple keeps the dimensions as it is, as I think it's perfectly fine the way it is. Most users won't even need bigger cameras or speakers, etc.
 
The answer is "of course". Reason:
1. why would they turn away from money?
2. how else can they manage to put the chip in upcoming Gs?

Be careful. Many people "actually" believe the Galaxy II S' Exynos was a Samsung Design. And, that Apple likes to look at internal hardware for license violations, not blatant design architecture rip off.

Nice to see some people in here get Samsung Mobile. ;)
 
Why doesn't this surprise me?

Two companies chasing the dollar signs. Samsung's semiconductor business is booming and Apple has the cash to make you forget about any argument in a heartbeat. Money talks. Once Apple flashes the cash, Sammy reacts with a multi-billion dollar smile and wink. Sammy isn't stupid saying no to Apple's wallet and Apple isn't stupid going to another chip maker when they know Samsung is more reliable.

It just works. Like a bickering married couple. Can't live with them, can't live without them. Apple and Samsung are both in love and war. Frenemies like Apple vs Microsoft for so long and now Apple vs Google and Samsung.

Now that Steve is gone, I wonder how partnerships with others get handled now? Apple is an extension of his personality and vision. Would be interesting what things will be like for the next few years.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/tech_view.asp?newsIdx=96008&categoryCode=134
10-04-2011 14:51

Samsung's semiconductor biz looking up

A patent row between Samsung Electronics and Apple is ironically a favorable opportunity for the Korean chip giant to sharpen its edge in profitability in the advanced non-memory chip business.

``Samsung aims to reap at least $1.5 billion in revenue from our foundry business by 2015, up from last year’s some $400 million,’’ said a high-ranking Samsung executive, Tuesday.

Samsung is targeting an annualized 30 percent growth in its foundry business over the next four years.

Its foundry business is well categorized as part of the non-memory business.

The logic looks quite simple. A chipmaker just manufactures chips with the specifications outlined by a client. That business requires refined chip manufacturing technologies and is also labor-intensive.

Officials at Samsung’s chip sector don’t doubt that further expansion of its foundry business is a top priority and one Samsung source said that the company has set the ``fab-light’’ strategy as the industry’s new outlook, fueling optimism that its foundry service will strengthen.

Samsung Electronics extends the foundry service to Xilinx, Qualcomm, Toshiba as well as Apple, according to Samsung officials.

``The key point is that Samsung should overcome the chip industry’s cyclical ups and downs for corporate sustainability. The foundry business will become our new growth engine,’’ said Kwon Oh-hyun, the chief of the company’s device solutions division, in a recent meeting with reporters.

``Samsung was not initially active in the foundry business. But we’ve been continuously developing it since 2005 when Samsung entered the sector,’’ the semiconductor head said, expecting ``foundry pitches’’ to soon yield high returns.

As for the necessary technology, Samsung’s chip plant in Austin, Texas, has recently fully converted its production line to NAND flashes with large-sized 12-inch wafers, according to data obtained by The Korea Times.

The plant in Texas plans to adopt a finer 27-nanometer chip-making processing technology for flash memories from 35- to 32-nanometers and it’s been set to expand the foundry business in order to meet rising demand for such products, according to data from Gartner, a leading market research firm.

No backlash in patent woes

Apple and Samsung have been involved in a heavy legal battle over patent infringement claims this year.

Apple is known to have dropped Samsung in favor of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) for the next version of its custom design mobile processors used in its popular i-branded products.

But Samsung insiders and industry officials expect the switch will be ``short-lived’’ because Samsung has a proven roadmap in chip-making technologies and a reliable output commitment.


Samsung Austin Semiconductor (SAS) in Texas, tasked to handle mobile application processors (APs) for Apple, has an annual production capacity of 65,000 sheets, the latest Gartner report showed.

``Samsung is better positioned to clearly commit production volumes at reasonable prices because it has proven chip-making technologies. It is very unlikely for Apple to switch client basis suddenly, just because of patent diputes,’’ said another Samsung executive familiar with the matter.

``The Apple-Samsung fight is a totally different matter. We are reliable and trustable chip supplier to Apple. Apple knows that,’’ the executive added.

The so-called ``A6 mobile AP’’ will be used in advanced iPhones and iPads, which Apple plans to introduce next year. Analysts believe that Samsung already makes its predecessor, the A5, in Austin.

``Apple will stick with Samsung and its Austin factory to make A5 mobile chips rather than opt for rival supplier TSMC. Because TSMC's manufacturing process hasn’t gelled, the risk of going with it is too high,’’ said Ashok Kumar of Rodman & Renshaw in a note to clients.


``No other foundry can match Samsung’s capacity commitment, process road map and pricing,’’ Kumar claimed.


Steve Park, a senior Apple representative, declined to comment, as did Samsung Electronics spokesman Ken Noh.

Samsung plans to spend 4 trillion won for non-memories that include the foundry business and mobile APs, while 6.3 trillion won has been set aside for its traditionally-strong memory chip business, Samsung said.

Apple is going to buy over 8 trillion won or $7 billion worth of computer memory chips this year from its South Korean frenemy, enough to rank as Samsung’s biggest overseas client by the end of 2011.

As well as mobile APs, Apple buys large quantities of memory chips from Samsung for almost all its i-products.
 
When will people let the "bigger screen" rumor die? There's a reason why it is the size it is and it shouldn't change—this is why. It's not a tablet and bigger isn't always better.

Was that seriously the best you could come up with? How many people who were on the fence do you think you convinced with that oh so compelling argument?
 
When will people let the "bigger screen" rumor die? There's a reason why it is the size it is and it shouldn't change—this is why. It's not a tablet and bigger isn't always better.

Absolutely agree. I have had several customers who went with the big android, and when I ask them how they like it after a couple of weeks, they all say "my thumb is too short!"

It's like all those porn stars with a huge penis, I feel sorry for them.
 
Be careful. Many people "actually" believe the Galaxy II S' Exynos was a Samsung Design. And, that Apple likes to look at internal hardware for license violations, not blatant design architecture rip off.

Nice to see some people in here get Samsung Mobile. ;)


Would you enlighten us as to whose design Exynos 4210 was? And BTW, Samsung already has the successor (Exynos 4212) ready. I doubd Apple is in the same position. Here is the press release:


Taipei, Taiwan - September 29, 2011 : Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd., a world leader in advanced semiconductor solutions, today introduced the latest addition to its Exynos product family - the Exynos 4212 - a dual core ARM Cortex™-A9 application processor, designed on Samsung's advanced 32nm High-K Metal Gate (HK/MG) low-power process. With best-in-class performance, the dual-core Exynos 4212 offers mobile device systems architects a new solution designed to support a high-quality user-experience and energy-efficient requirements of smartphones and tablet devices. Samsung's new Exynos application processor is displayed at the eighth annual Samsung Mobile Solutions Forum held at the Westin Taipei.

"As innovative technologies appear on the mobile landscape, the market continues to embrace further developments and performance acceleration in mobile computing," said Seh-Woong Jeong, executive vice president of System LSI sales & marketing, Device Solutions, Samsung Electronics. "Samsung is addressing this trend with its powerful low-power Exynos family of processors based on its proven design technology and cutting-edge process technology for performance and power improvements at the system level."

Leveraging its deep sub-micron expertise in high-performance/low-power technology, Samsung designed the Exynos 4212 on its 32nm low-power HKMG logic process technology with dual Cortex-A9 cores. Samsung's 32nm HKMG process node is specifically tuned to offer a competitive, cutting-edge platform with double the logic density and a 30 percent lower power-level over the previous process generation.

In addition to the 25percent increase in processing power, the new processor features an enhanced graphics processing unit (GPU) that is capable of delivering 50 percent higher 3D graphics performance over the previous processor generation from Samsung.

The Exynos 4212 incorporates a rich portfolio of advanced codec accelerators that support digital still images, video recording and play-back at 1080p full-HD resolution, an image signal processor and an on-chip HDMI 1.4 interface.

Samsung's new Exynos 4212 application processor will be sampling to select customers in Q4 2011.


Apple can still ask Samsung for forgiveness and try to get those 4212s :D
 
^ screw that! I say Apple works with Texas Instruments for a custom silicon on insulator chip design and manufacturing for the A6 .. bring about Cortex A16 (?) and Quad-Core.
 
I totally agree with seanwes. The phone needs to be smaller (but not necessarily thinner), if anything. If you want the 3.5" screen to appear as 4", hold it 15% closer. It's the resolution that counts, not the screen size. If you need a larger screen, get an iPad.

Do people actually understand what a dumb-ass argument that is? It's like saying "I'd like to go from a 11" Laptop to a 13" and then someone saying "Hey, 11 is fine, If you want a bigger screen by a TV!" I personally think that 4" is the sweetspot for smartphones, but that's just me.

And as for your quip about resolution being more important than size. I call BS on that. Of course high res screens are nice but the majority of people don't have perfect eye sight (I myself have terrible eye sight) and can't tell the difference unless you look really close, and if you're looking really close you're obviously not 'using' your phone...
 
Be careful. Many people "actually" believe the Galaxy II S' Exynos was a Samsung Design. And, that Apple likes to look at internal hardware for license violations, not blatant design architecture rip off.

Nice to see some people in here get Samsung Mobile. ;)

A truly sad attempt at feeding the sheep something to eat up. Does it really hurt you that much to know Samsung are world leader in semiconductor. So upset at the fact that Apple just can't leave them. Does the news they are sticking with Samsung crush your theory that Apple don't need Samsung, and that Samsung need Apple. You know, that theory you blind follower like to believe. Apple is not a true OEM, Samsung is. Just accept the fact, Apple will always have a dependency on a supplier. And that supplier would be that company you blind followers like to call a copy cat who makes cheap plastic phones (that can withstand more of a beating than your precious iPhone.)
 
^ screw that! I say Apple works with Texas Instruments for a custom silicon on insulator chip design and manufacturing for the A6 .. bring about Cortex A16 (?) and Quad-Core.

Too bad TI does not have its own fabs anymore.
 
There's not any evidence one way or the other regarding which architecture they'll choose to utilize for A6. It's even possible they could go the Qualcomm route and make a core so custom that it is disingenuous to compare it to any specific ARM cortex iteration.
What do you think the chances of that are, both for the A6 and for the longer term?

It always seemed to me that Apple must have built up a very significant in-house design team with the PA Semi and Intrinsity teams being added to whatever they had in house before and have recruited since. I saw some press after the PA semi acquisition about some key staff not hanging around at Apple but even so they must have a team that has the skills and funding to tackle some pretty major design projects now and a ground-up implementation (if it's a good one) would be a powerful differentiator.

- Julian
 
Absolutely agree. I have had several customers who went with the big android, and when I ask them how they like it after a couple of weeks, they all say "my thumb is too short!"

It's like all those porn stars with a huge penis, I feel sorry for them.

I'm coming to believe that Android phones, some not all, are following the path of Boom Boxes. Someone elsewhere stated Tail Fins.

This is what happens when a small group of users, lets call them technophiles, out of a huge number of consumers, have decided that bigger is indeed better. By shaping the media message, technophiles have set up a race amongst Android OEM's, where More and Bigger is the key meme. More RAM, more hz, more storage, more screen, more battery, more features.

From Techcrunch 0ct 18.

"According to Android HDBlog, these are the specs we’ll be seeing on the Samsung Galaxy Nexus:

Dimensions: 5.4in x 2.7in x .35in (which is insanely thin, however the blog also mentions that its .45 inches at its thickest part)
Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich
1.2GHz dual-core TI OMAP 4460 processor
4.65-inch 720×1280 AMOLED HD display (which may just be the Italian translation for Super AMOLED Plus)
5-megapixel CMOS rear camera with LED flash, capable of video capture in 1080p
1.3-megapixel CMOS front-facing camera
NFC!!
1GB of RAM, 16/32 GB of on-board storage"

The iPhone has no 4G and no NFC and has only a 3.5 inch screen in a package 4.5 inch x 2.31 inch x .37 inch. That's undeniably small by comparison and lacking some of the features of the Nexus.

So there's the choice. I'm guessing that now would be a good time for those that can't find value in the iPhone 4S to move on.
 
I'm just projecting into the future....

An A6 quad-core processor, LTE, and a 4-inch screen on the next iPhone? There's going to have to be some major battery upgrades on that phone! :D

Not if the fab process drops down to 28nm, which is expected. They won't go to quad-core with 45nm. They already have to clock the dual-core down to 800Mhz to keep it within thermal and power limits in the small as hell iPhone.

LTE will suck power like a mother regardless of form factor.

And the screen power draw will in all likelihood drop or stay the same. Apple is still using a 2+ year old screen technology in its phones. There have been a few advancements in LCD display tech in that time. There have been many more in LED, AMOLED, etc though. So it would be interesting to see if they finally jump to a SAMOLED variant.

----------



I'm coming to believe that Android phones, some not all, are following the path of Boom Boxes. Someone elsewhere stated Tail Fins.

This is what happens when a small group of users, lets call them technophiles, out of a huge number of consumers, have decided that bigger is indeed better. By shaping the media message, technophiles have set up a race amongst Android OEM's, where More and Bigger is the key meme. More RAM, more hz, more storage, more screen, more battery, more features.

From Techcrunch 0ct 18.

"According to Android HDBlog, these are the specs we’ll be seeing on the Samsung Galaxy Nexus:

Dimensions: 5.4in x 2.7in x .35in (which is insanely thin, however the blog also mentions that its .45 inches at its thickest part)
Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich
1.2GHz dual-core TI OMAP 4460 processor
4.65-inch 720×1280 AMOLED HD display (which may just be the Italian translation for Super AMOLED Plus)
5-megapixel CMOS rear camera with LED flash, capable of video capture in 1080p
1.3-megapixel CMOS front-facing camera
NFC!!
1GB of RAM, 16/32 GB of on-board storage"

The iPhone has no 4G and no NFC and has only a 3.5 inch screen in a package 4.5 inch x 2.31 inch x .37 inch. That's undeniably small by comparison and lacking some of the features of the Nexus.

So there's the choice. I'm guessing that now would be a good time for those that can't find value in the iPhone 4S to move on.

The "technophiles" as you call them are irrelevant for the most part in the "Android arms race". The devices depend on sales. "Technophiles" by your own admission make up a very small portion of the consumer base. They can campaign for "bigger, better, more" all they want. Manufacturers keep building the devices because their customer base (a majority of whom don't even know the technophile stance on various specs) keeps buying the devices. They are building the devices for the majority portion of their consumer base, not the minority.

The "technophiles" haven't decided bigger is better, the consumers have. 4"-4.3" screens seem to be the sweet spot among Android smartphone purchases. As long as the devices stay slim (and in some cases slimmer) than the iPhone form factor, the other dimensions are irrelevant (to a point).

Lots of people will trade an few millimeters in height/length in order to have a much larger display than the positively tiny one on the iPhone.
 
What do you think the chances of that are, both for the A6 and for the longer term?

It always seemed to me that Apple must have built up a very significant in-house design team with the PA Semi and Intrinsity teams being added to whatever they had in house before and have recruited since. I saw some press after the PA semi acquisition about some key staff not hanging around at Apple but even so they must have a team that has the skills and funding to tackle some pretty major design projects now and a ground-up implementation (if it's a good one) would be a powerful differentiator.

- Julian

Well, they've gotten progressively more custom from the A4 to the A5, so it stands to reason that the A6 could be just as custom if not more custom than the A5. The good thing is that they know exactly what they want the OS to do going forward, so they can tailor the silicon to those functions and not have wasted functional units. Additionally, those functional units should be largely transparent to developers for all but the most demanding applications/games as it will all be hidden by Apple's APIs that they interface with.

We may also see this team branching out and start doing chips for Apple's logic boards. I don't know if I buy an ARM core as the main CPU for any of their Mac products for the foreseeable future, but the talent is there to do something like that if they wish.

As far as how aggressive they will be with the A6 design, the A5 is a good sign. It holds its own with all but the newest of SoCs out there. Exynos 4210, OMAP 4xxx, Tegra 2; it's as fast if not faster than all of those. None of those SoCs can touch its GPU performance. The A4 was also a class leader.

So, worst case in terms of computing power, the A6 is essentially a die shrink of the A5 design in order to save power for LTE. They could also keep the same basic design but double the core count to make it a quad. There would probably be a modest clock bump with both of these. However, I don't really see the core increase as too advantageous in the mobile space right now.

Should apple decide to do another fully custom core that isn't derivative of the A5, I would expect them to deliver a dual core cortex A15 based design on a 28nm node. This means we wouldn't see the design before summer likely (due to the design and validation lead time of an A15 core, not 28nm readiness). This also means that if the iPad 3 comes and uses A6, it may be a little later than Spring. However, Apple has demonstrated a short time to market with their A5 processor. IIRC, it was essentially the first major brand tablet to market with a cortex A9 chip at its heart. (Tegra 2 based tablets from the big names didn't appear until later).

Cortex A15 designs aren't expected until H2 2012, but since Apple is its own vendor, it doesn't have the normal lead time you would have for a company like Motorola waiting to sample its vendor's SoC, which is why Apple can deliver a little earlier.

When it comes to GPU, it's a little cloudier. The 543MP2 they have right now is still the best out there, but that won't be the case this time next year. They could simply sit on the 543MP2 design for the A6, or they could be rather aggressive and incorporate one of ImgTec's new 6 series "Rogue" cores. These things are monsters. Approximately 75% of the xbox 360's GPU power in a handheld. Only one company, ST Ericsson has announced a core with this GPU in it, the A9600. That chip is supposed to sample in 2011. So if they can sample in 2011, so can Apple (assuming fab delay wasn't an issue), which makes mid 2012 deployment a possibility.

I think Apple will stick with ImgTec even though ARM offers the Mali GPU now. They have around 12% stock in ImgTec IIRC so they are probably in it for the long haul with them.

So, worst case is just a die shrink of A5, best case is dual core cortex A15 with Rogue core.
 
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