Apple to Stop Providing Unit Sales Data for iPhone, iPad and Mac Starting With December Quarter

[newyorksole]

You must be new here...
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You mean like they do already?
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Have a good time with the "Value" of that Android Phone (let alone TABLET!), or the resale value of the Windows computer (nevermind the baked-in Spyware!)
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So I don't get it:

Is Apple worth the "high price", or not. You have essentially argued both points, you realize, don't you?

By the way, what EVERYONE seems to forget is that there is a VAST DIFFERENCE between "Price" and "Value".

And, as you have yourself said "...the VALUE is definitely worth it,"
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I'd hardly characterize this as "Shenanigans".

Haha yeah what I said does seem confusing. Here’s my follow-up:

The increase in price is asinine, IMO. It’s insane how much more storage costs. The technology is becoming more advanced, but I mean... the original iPhone up until the iPhone 7 remained fairly the same in terms of price.

The iPhone 4 was MAJOR and we didn’t see a price increase. Same with the iPhone 6.

On the flip side, I PERSONALLY dont mind spending $1,000 for an iPhone because old phones hold their value extremely well. The ecosystem overall is worth it to be. Especially when I can pay over time. The phone does so much and I have virtually zero issues with my iPhones. The X and XS Max have done very well for me.

I COMPLETELY understand why people are frustrated with Apple when it comes to pricing. They don’t HAVE to increase prices every year, but they have been doing it since 2016.

I’m just wondering, when does the increasing stop? It seems to be getting worse and worse... Right now I can justify paying for the products I own, but I fear there will come a time where I just hold off.

 

[Superhappytree]

I feel personally that they've reached a point where the products don't offer enough value. Their stuff has always been expensive but it's now reaching such a high level that for the first time in almost twenty years I'm considering alternative products and ecosystems, I'm talking Windows + Android.

I'm not saying Apple is doomed, I don't think they're in trouble. But I do feel like they are entering this phase of their life where they're pushing a boulder up a mountain (high revenue and profit margins) and eventually it's going to get to the top and quickly go down the other side as consumers exit the brand due to it being too expensive and not offering the things Apple had been known for in the past (ease of use, functionality, great design and intuitiveness etc).

To me the company now more than ever cares about profit beyond all else. In the past I really truly believed they cared about making great products. Now I think they only care about making great margins and everything else is secondary to that goal.

I am not currently an Apple stock holder but I have been in the past. I think they're probably 75% of the way up that mountain I just spoke about, but this is all just my opinion I'm sure many here will disagree with me and that's perfectly fine.

I agree with every single point you made. Jobs knew it wasn't all about profit but rather putting out great products with an even greater user experience. He eerily predicted Apple's downfall over 20 years ago:

 

[ThatGuyInLa]

At least 12% of their Sales, are from Macs. And was it something like 20% are from "Services".

They don't have "All their eggs in one basket".

Give it a rest.

So your stock portfolio has 70% in one company? That’s good for you man. Goodluck.

 

[partsofspeech]

I’m crafting my anti-Tim Cook strategy.

Just a small suggestion that might create a difference: Don’t use Apple Pay. The cash flow coming from Apple Pay—via you—is what Wall Street hires TC for.

 

[mrex]

Apple is DOOOOOOOMED!

Been hearing it since 1983 or so.

been hearing from 1983 but never looked around?

in 1997 apple was dooooooomed (was it enough o’s?), but microsoft saved apple by making 150 million investment and Jobs thanked Bill for saving apple.

 

[alphaod]

Except that’s not the way profit margins work.

You do realize the components that go into iOS devices and most of the components in their macs are not off the shelf, their custom designed and manufactured to apple specification.

Yes, Apple tailors some things like custom screen resolutions to ensure uniform DPI on their "Retina" displays, otherwise basically every single chip on the motherboard except for the Axx CPU in the iPhone/iPad is off the shelf.

You can be sure the Mac mini uses off the shelf components. Yes Apple probably designed a custom motherboard and storage controller in their T2 chip, but the modules, networking, RAM, CPU, etc. all are off-the-shelf. The storage and RAM upgrades that's quadrupling the Mac mini price? Those chips don't cost thousands of dollars.

Don't kid yourself.

 

[x-evil-x]

Shorting stock is akin to gambling in my opinion. And I’m not sure what Snapchat does can compare to hat Apple does.

And going with the trend isnt gambling? Shorting is just part of trading you can make money both ways and both are a gamble...

 

[Sedulous]

THEN WHY DO YOU INSIST ON TROLLING THIS SITE?!?
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Look up the definition of trolling before insulting someone that has been a member of this site far longer than you. I am far from the only poster that finds Apple's direction to be wrong.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Yes, Apple tailors some things like custom screen resolutions to ensure uniform DPI on their "Retina" displays, otherwise basically every single chip on the motherboard except for the Axx CPU in the iPhone/iPad is off the shelf.

You can be sure the Mac mini uses off the shelf components. Yes Apple probably designed a custom motherboard and storage controller in their T2 chip, but the modules, networking, RAM, CPU, etc. all are off-the-shelf. The storage and RAM upgrades that's quadrupling the Mac mini price? Those chips don't cost thousands of dollars.

Don't kid yourself.

As you say most parts are off the shelf. But no matter how inexpensive the components may be, Apple gets to set whatever price they want for their products, including upgrades. Customers are free to buy or not.

If Apple charges “too much”, they won’t sell as many as they want. RAM and SSD upgrade prices are equal for iMac, MacBook Pro, Mac mini, Mac Pro etc. Yes prices are high but apparently not “too high” or quantities sold would be below Apple’s expectations and they’d be forced to lower prices (if they wanted to sell more units).

 

[Abazigal]

As you say most parts are off the shelf. But no matter how inexpensive the components may be, Apple gets to set whatever price they want for their products, including upgrades. Customers are free to buy or not.

If Apple charges “too much”, they won’t sell as many as they want. RAM and SSD upgrade prices are equal for iMac, MacBook Pro, Mac mini, Mac Pro etc. Yes prices are high but apparently not “too high” or quantities sold would be below Apple’s expectations and they’d be forced to lower prices (if they wanted to sell more units).

I have never understood this logic that an Apple product is overpriced just because it's selling for more than the combined cost of its components.

Even when you eat outside at a restaurant, the final price of a dish is definitely going to cost way more than the price of its ingredients. There are other costs to factor in - from the rental, to labour, and of course the shop has to be able to earn a decent profit at the end of it all to make their efforts justified. You are basically paying for the convenience, ambience and experience.

When I see a doctor, the money I pay for is many times more than the cost of the medicine dispensed. I am essentially paying for the doctor's expertise in knowing which medicine to prescribe.

Same logic here, IMO. Yes, an Apple product may sport many off-the-shelf parts, but who amongst us is able to just buy them off the shelf just like that and assemble them into the desired end product? That to me is what I am paying for when I buy an Apple product - Apple's expertise in being able to put all these parts into a product that affords me that unique user experience (made possible by Apple's control over their hardware and software) that no other company that provide.

That, amongst other things, include the underlying OS and the services accorded by the ecosystem (iMessage, Siri, Apple Pay, maps, amongst others). These are provided free, but cost money to maintain, and their costs have clearly been worked into the final price of the product).

As always, we will let the market vote with their wallet.

 

[Baymowe335]

This is great news for investors long term. We will see all the numbers we need and won’t have the nonsense of some useless analyst saying they should have shipped 78M iPhones instead of 77M.

Not like Kraft tells you how many blocks of cheese they sell.

Apple is a consumer products company who happen sell technology.

Revenue up 20% y/y...eps up 40% y/y. The company has NEVER been healthier.

That said, investors will panic for no reason in the short term. I say, let em panic. I’ll buy their shares.

 

[Baymowe335]

When nearly all your companies profits are from a single segment, the iPhone, you have to hide it. Having all your eggs in one basket just means a harder and faster fall if things ever go south. So, do what you can to mask it. Amazed it took one slightly off report to trigger it though. Shows they know how important it really is to their bottom line.

No iPhone and Apple is a Gateway 2000 at best.

And without advertising, Google is nothing and without oil, Exxon is bankrupt. And yet, they aren’t.

So what?

Apple makes more many than most companies the world on JUST their services business, so unit sales don’t matter so much there.
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Samsung doesn’t just make completed electronics though. Along with their parts business. (SSDs, RAM, etc,) they also make TVs, housing developments and military vessels. I don’t think Apple is quite as diversified as Samsung.

The question is, who would you rather be?

Sure, Samsung is diversified and many of their businesses are low margin, capital intensive, and largely commoditized like appliances.

Apple could get into a bunch of terrible businesses too just to be diversified, but they’d rather make money for their shareholders.

Remember, each of Apple’s non iPhone businesses are bigger than most entire companies.

Apple just made $60B profit in 12 months. That’s well over 2X as much as #2. Do you have any concept how insane that is?
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True.

But to be fair... Nokia or Blackberry never sold 200 million smartphones a year at an average price of over $700 each. It's a completely different scenario.

Blackberry's highest yearly revenue was $20 billion in 2011.

Apple can make three times as much revenue in just 3 months today.

I understand the point you're making though... it might be dangerous to rely on one product. But the amount of revenue being tossed around today is nothing like it was in previous years from other companies. It's extraordinary.

All that said... I do believe that iPhone sales will hit a peak. They have to. ALL companies experience this. There is no such thing as infinite growth.

It's funny though... no one ever mentions what happened to that other giant smartphone manufacturer.

4 years ago Samsung hit a sales peak of 88.5 million smartphones in a single quarter. But they've never reached that number again since then.

Perhaps it is possible to survive post-peak.

Apple is so strong, it’s almost unfair. $60B in PROFIT in 12 months, a record and 2X more than second place.

When did Microsoft reach peak Windows? Since then, Microsoft has become a services business with nearly a trillion dollar market cap themselves. Good companies can find new ways to make money and Apple is doing that already with its installed base.

Apple is also not done with iPhone...sales are not declining. Unit sales were up, not down in 2018 vs 2017, by 2M units. Not insane growth, but not declining and revenue was up 20%, showing their pricing power.

Apple will release more products in the years to come, likely related to AR.
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Pray tell, how is it that you think they are "growing the Mac"?
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The Pro license makes it a pretty good operating system, IMHO.

Easy. Every Mac they sell grows it...unless you think people that didn’t buy Macs just throw them away? Apple just announced the most active Macs ever at 100M.

 

[x-evil-x]

This is great news for investors long term. We will see all the numbers we need and won’t have the nonsense of some useless analyst saying they should have shipped 78M iPhones instead of 77M.

Not like Kraft tells you how many blocks of cheese they sell.

Apple is a consumer products company who happen sell technology.

Revenue up 20% y/y...eps up 40% y/y. The company has NEVER been healthier.

That said, investors will panic for no reason in the short term. I say, let em panic. I’ll buy their shares.

But when do things just keep going up up up. what happens. Healthy isnt a good word for it. Peaking is a better word for it. You expect apple to continue with these profits or to have a nice correction like any "healthy" stock should do...

 

[Baymowe335]

But when do things just keep going up up up. what happens. Healthy isnt a good word for it. Peaking is a better word for it. You expect apple to continue with these profits or to have a nice correction like any "healthy" stock should do...

Transitioning is how I look at it. Apple has changed as a company. Consumer products companies don’t report unit sales. You realize Clorox is a more expensive stock than AAPL?

Analysts need to focus on the business, not 51M iPhone sales versus 52M. They literally agonize over iPhone sales every quarter. It’s a joke. Services grows 30%, revenue grows 20% and EPS grows 40% but these analysts say, “Yeah, but they sold 800K fewer iPhones than I modeled.”

Apple has zero valuation concerns. They buyback $20B in stock per quarter, have $250B in cash, and make $60B in net income annually, which is over 2 times second place.

 

[Tech198]

This is just to protect Apple's interest. Fuzzy the clouds more. But gives Apple more room to do what they like with little to no evidence.

 

[x-evil-x]

Transitioning is how I look at it. Apple has changed as a company. Consumer products companies don’t report unit sales. You realize Clorox is a more expensive stock than AAPL?

Analysts need to focus on the business, not 51M iPhone sales versus 52M. They literally agonize over iPhone sales every quarter. It’s a joke. Services grows 30%, revenue grows 20% and EPS grows 40% but these analysts say, “Yeah, but they sold 800K fewer iPhones than I modeled.”

Apple has zero valuation concerns. They buyback $20B in stock per quarter, have $250B in cash, and make $60B in net income annually, which is over 2 times second place.

im not arguing that I'm arguing that in ALL stocks there needs to be a correction eventually. Its healthy to have a correction to continue to build.

 

[Tigger11]

Wallstreet is likely the most frustrated and only real impacted by this news, but I can understand why they'd be frustrated by it.

The best way to predict value is to see sales volume.

NO. The laziest way, especially these days, absolutely. The best way its not even close.

if you remove sales volume from their analytics, their job to predict becomes that much more difficult. Even to the point where Apple could potentially hide potential revenue problems until their actual financials are released.

If they are using sales volumes for predictions on apple to drive their analytics they were failing at the job anyways. Revenue is released at the same time as units for Apple through this quarter, so their is no hiding revenue problems by not releasing units how do you think that would work? Leaks and poor guesses of how well Apple is selling will come out all the time still. We have 3 today for instance. Its something Apple needed to do as they approach the less then 50% of their money made from iPhone future, which is going to happen in the next 12 to 18 months.
-Tig

 

[Frank Dalton]

NO. The laziest way, especially these days, absolutely. The best way its not even close.

It's an important metric that investors want to know. It isn't up to you or Tim Cook to decide what metric I *need* or *should* or *shouldn't* be using. This silly move by Cook is being appropriately reflected in the stock price.

 

[Tigger11]

It's an important metric that investors want to know. It isn't up to you or Tim Cook to decide what metric I *need* or *should* or *shouldn't* be using. This silly move by Cook is being appropriately reflected in the stock price.

Its not an important metric, its not provided by any other phone manufacturer. If its such an important metric why is Apple the only one providing it? Its a lazy metric, especially for a company that continues to climb in sales and profit per quarter but continues to make less percentage of it from the iPhone. Apple used to break things down much more then they do now. We used to see how many desktops, how many laptops etc. They stopped that and went to total computers, and now they are going to stop listing computer counts or iPhone counts, or iPad counts, etc and just tell us how much sales and profit from each of those divisions. This quarter, 1/6 of the money was from services. That number is going to continue to rise. If you deciding on whether to invest in Apple by a count of how many iPhones they are selling, you should sell now, that number is going to stay very stable quarter to quarter with just small changes, until 5G is out big, and when we get folding screens or something else that everyone is going to want. If you however are deciding to invest on how much profit its going to make next quarter, buy some more on the dip, they are going to have a record quarter this Christmas.
-Tig

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The public don’t get any bad impressions if you hide your sales data eh?

 

[Frank Dalton]

Its not an important metric, its not provided by any other phone manufacturer. If its such an important metric why is Apple the only one providing it? Its a lazy metric, especially for a company that continues to climb in sales and profit per quarter but continues to make less percentage of it from the iPhone. Apple used to break things down much more then they do now. We used to see how many desktops, how many laptops etc. They stopped that and went to total computers, and now they are going to stop listing computer counts or iPhone counts, or iPad counts, etc and just tell us how much sales and profit from each of those divisions. This quarter, 1/6 of the money was from services. That number is going to continue to rise. If you deciding on whether to invest in Apple by a count of how many iPhones they are selling, you should sell now, that number is going to stay very stable quarter to quarter with just small changes, until 5G is out big, and when we get folding screens or something else that everyone is going to want. If you however are deciding to invest on how much profit its going to make next quarter, buy some more on the dip, they are going to have a record quarter this Christmas.
-Tig

All of this is irrelevant. It's my business what metrics I want to take into account, not yours.

 

[Tigger11]

All of this is irrelevant. It's my business what metrics I want to take into account, not yours.

Yes, and despite what you said its Tim and the boards decision to not provide it anymore just like Samsung, Motorola and Google. If that makes you want to sell it off or not buy more, feel free. Apple will continue on and Apple will have a record Q1 2019.
-Tig

 

[The Game 161]

The sales will still get leaked

Nothing changes

 

[ftaok]

All of this is irrelevant. It's my business what metrics I want to take into account, not yours.

There are plenty of analytics firms that will fill the void. Starting next quarter, there will be exactly zero mobile phone companies that report unit sales. Prior to that, there was exactly one company that reported this data.

However, we have years and years of data available to rank all of these companies by market share. Even with so little actual reported unit sales numbers, investors have had enough data to make investing decisions.

IDC and Gartner must be loving it right now. They can say whatever they want, and no one will be able to challenge their numbers.

It's a non-story. The outrage was planned and will eventually pass. Be wise and buy in on the dip.

 

[Frank Dalton]

It's a non-story.

No, it's a story. One of papering over upcoming sales declines.
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Yes, and despite what you said its Tim and the boards decision to not provide it anymore just like Samsung, Motorola and Google. If that makes you want to sell it off or not buy more, feel free.

Good for Tim.

Apple will continue on and Apple will have a record Q1 2019.

That's nice.