Apple to Stop Selling iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 Models in Germany While Appealing Broader Sales Ban [Updated]

[az431]

Some key pieces of information left out from this article:

The court based the infringement holding merely on an allegedly insufficiently-substantiated denial by Apple, not on actual clarification of how the accused chips operate. It's all because Qualcomm alleged something and Apple couldn't deny it without violating Qorvo's secrets.
...

The eight complaints in which Qualcomm targeted Apple's Spotlight search will be adjudicated in late January, but given that iOS 12 almost certainly steers clear of infringement, the injunctive relief Qualcomm may or may not obtain then simply won't have any commercial impact--and damages, if ultimately due, would be very limited.


http://www.fosspatents.com/2018/12/qualcomm-wins-envelope-tracker-patent_78.html

 

[SBlue1]

iPhone 7 still available at the German online store.

 

[Emanuel Rodriguez]

Remember when just one iOS update would make your year-old phone sluggish? Keys remembers when he updated from iOS 4 to 5.

An iPhone 6S still is an absolute beast. I'd sooner use that over any Android phone.

This is fun!

Remember when iOS updated from 6 to 7 and the iPhone 4 was unusable? Emanuel remembers.

Heh heh heh.

 

[nwcs]

Reminds me of the Samsung/Apple lawsuit. It’ll take 5 years to resolve. Would be great if MacRumors gave us a filter option to hide all of these posts. Yes, I know, I can avoid clicking on it but I would rather not see it.

 

[keysofanxiety]

This is fun!

Remember when iOS updated from 6 to 7 and the iPhone 4 was unusable? Emanuel remembers.

Heh heh heh.

Sniff, yeah I remember. iOS 6 crippled my little iPhone 4. iOS 7 absolutely killed it.

 

[CarpalMac]

Remember when just one iOS update would make your year-old phone sluggish? Keys remembers when he updated from iOS 4 to 5.

An iPhone 6S still is an absolute beast. I'd sooner use that over any Android phone.

I still use my 6S and do prefer the size to any other phone I have owned but to me, to say it is a beast compared to my Pixel 3 would be wildly inaccurate. Only yesterday did I use it's camera against Googles Night Sight to show the how huge the difference is. The Pixel is literally Day vs Night better.

 

[Xenomorph]

Qualcomm may be dicks, but they're still the best. Apple's greed for more money has done nothing but hurt consumers and cause more headache for themselves.

The Intel modems aren't bad, they're just not as good as Qualcomm's.

Intel has made lots of progress, but they still don't perform as well as Qualcomm's offerings. Not only that, but Apple throttled the Qualcomm modems to try and make the difference between them and Intel's modems not so obvious.

Now with the newest product they don't even offer a Qualcomm option.

This all hurts consumers. They're stuck with lower-performing modems, or with a device that simply cannot maintain a connection with the same coverage they had before. At the same time, Apple has also increased the price of their top iPhone models by over 50%.

If Apple had just stuck with Qualcomm, the iPhone XS, iPhone XR, iPhone X, iPhone 8, and iPhone 7 would all have MUCH better modems. They'd all be Qualcomm, they wouldn't be as throttled, and they'd all have the best possible signal and connection.

But nope. Apple obviously needed more money. They spent less on components and raised prices - all the while crying about how much Qualcomm charges.

 

[Cosmosent]

RE: "In the U.S., the FTC is also taking Qualcomm to court next month over the alleged monopolistic behavior."

NO ONE should be surprised when the FTC takes AAPL to court over their Monopoly of "App Discovery" ... NOT the Argument that's currently being debated by the U.S. Supreme Court, which may have been valid in 2010-2012, but the real issue Here & Now, that of AAPL's Monopoly / Stranglehold on App Discovery !

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Qualcon is a patent trolling company who ripped off prior art. They will never ever get a penny from me, I wont buy anything with their **** in it.

 

[falainber]

It's just all good news about Apple these days. Hopefully they have inked another deal with some director I have never heard of for some original series such as "Lassie: the missing years." I need some cheering up.

One may spin it as a good news because this sale ban will increase ASP

 

[justperry]

Qualcomm may be dicks, but they're still the best. Apple's greed for more money has done nothing but hurt consumers and cause more headache for themselves.

The Intel modems aren't bad, they're just not as good as Qualcomm's.

Intel has made lots of progress, but they still don't perform as well as Qualcomm's offerings. Not only that, but Apple throttled the Qualcomm modems to try and make the difference between them and Intel's modems not so obvious.

Now with the newest product they don't even offer a Qualcomm option.

This all hurts consumers. They're stuck with lower-performing modems, or with a device that simply cannot maintain a connection with the same coverage they had before. At the same time, Apple has also increased the price of their top iPhone models by over 50%.

If Apple had just stuck with Qualcomm, the iPhone XS, iPhone XR, iPhone X, iPhone 8, and iPhone 7 would all have MUCH better modems. They'd all be Qualcomm, they wouldn't be as throttled, and they'd all have the best possible signal and connection.

But nope. Apple obviously needed more money. They spent less on components and raised prices - all the while crying about how much Qualcomm charges.

Or,....just maybe they are fed up with Qualcomm unfair pricing/shady practices.

 

[cmwade77]

Qualcoms playing Apples own game... dirty.

Not sure how it is dirty, they have patents and actual legitimate ones unlike a "rectangle with round corners" that Apple somehow got, Apple infringed on the patents, Qualcom took them to court and won.

 

[xnu]

Apple has lost $250B in market cap in the last few months, Qualcomm market cap is $70B. Just buy them. :/

 

[Fozziebear71]

Apple seems to be caught in a bad news cycle right now.

 

[BayouTiger]

The entire patent system is desperately in need of reform. The authorities do not have anywhere near the knowledge and experience to determine patent suitability. Hell, I saw the entire LED lighting industry held hostage in the US because some patent clerk issues a patent for mixing red, green, and blue leds to make colors! Even the designer for the company patenting it testified against it in a later suit and the court upheld it. It basically comes down to the interests of the jurisdiction where the suit is filed and seldom has anything to do with technology.

 

[CWallace]

This surely wont affect sales numbers

Average Sales Prices will be up, though*

* - (Since only the most-expensive models will be available for sale.)

Apple need to pay the Qualcomm tax and stop trying to dodge and weave.

Remember that Apple passes that tax on to customers via their MSRP so in the end, we're the ones paying it.

 

[BayouTiger]

Apple seems to be caught in a bad news cycle right now.

This has everything to do with the plethora of bad news on AAPL lately. It's not that any of the news is false, but watch how the investment houses release their ratings and analyses in order to keep the negative message on point.

I was with a company that went through this in the 90's and it was amazing the lengths that the shorts went to in order to keep the downward pressure on the stock.

Again, it's not that there has not been bad news on AAPL, but even when there is not anything in the headlines, you will quickly be able to google some story being released to keep the momentum going.

I would be curious to see when these positions start getting covered. Basically the bubble has been erased, but there will be a huge opportunity when this starts to flip. (but the stock is a topic for another thread)

https://www.thestreet.com/technology/most-shorted-stock-is-not-tesla-14711781

 

[Romeo_Nightfall]

The A12 crushes the snapdragon processors from all of what I’ve seen. Maybe that is androids fault but I haven’t heard people going on about how snapdragon will likely replace intel in the next couple years the way I hear people talk about the A series chips doing just that.
[doublepost=1545325921][/doublepost]

Yes. This gesture was developed and used ten years ago by palm

Both will do that. Qualcomm has already a working 5g beast

 

[IG88]

They really need to figure this crap out because this is getting worse by the day. From what I understand Qualcomm was charging unreasonable amounts for FRAND patents and Apple got pissed and now doesn't want to pay them anything. Bunch of companies acting like children—which seems to be a popular trend among many adults in our society lately. Qualcomm needs to get paid, Qualcomm needs to charge a fair amount for a standards patent, Apple need to pay it, end of story. It's not worth it to go thermonuclear when you could end up wrecking your worldwide sales—especially at a time where they seem to be in a weaker position than usual.

There are a few things going on here:

1. FRAND percentage - Qualcomm gets a % of the sale price of each phone, even though the only difference between the different options is storage capacity. Qualcomm makes more $ from a 512 GB phone vs a 64 GB phone, even though the modem is identical and has no increased functionality.
2. How FRAND payments worked - Qualcomm would hold the FRAND $$ Apple paid, and at the end of the fiscal year, as long as Apple was a good boy, Qualcomm would give them a "cash back" deal. Well if you're talking about a huge number, like $1B, and the cash back is several million $, that means that Qualcomm got to earn interest on Apple's $$. Apple was essentially being forced to overpay, and kind of put in a position where they were pressured to keep Qualcomm happy, or they might not get their cash back at the end of the year.

I don't find myself siding with Apple very often, but in this case, I absolutely side with Apple, with one exception. Where I think Apple made a mistake, is that they cut off all royalty payments instead of what I think they should have done, which would be to keep paying while they sue Qualcomm.

 

[mi7chy]

If you don't want your car repossessed then pay your bills as agreed to when you signed the contract.

Don't feel sorry either for Intel since they've abused their market dominance to screw AMD every chance they could.

In the end, consumers benefit as this will force Apple to offer the superior Qualcomm radio and the iPhone 7 with defective audio chip boot looping issue is taken off the market.

 

[Romeo_Nightfall]

Qualcon is a patent trolling company who ripped off prior art. They will never ever get a penny from me, I wont buy anything with their **** in it.

That’s just like, your opinion, man

 

[az431]

The entire patent system is desperately in need of reform. The authorities do not have anywhere near the knowledge and experience to determine patent suitability. Hell, I saw the entire LED lighting industry held hostage in the US because some patent clerk issues a patent for mixing red, green, and blue leds to make colors! Even the designer for the company patenting it testified against it in a later suit and the court upheld it. It basically comes down to the interests of the jurisdiction where the suit is filed and seldom has anything to do with technology.

That's not how the patent system works at all. You may want to take some time to learn about the patent system and how the granting and adjucation of patents works before chiming in.

• The people who evaluate patent application are all licensed attorneys with a degree in engineering or chemistry. In addition, they need to demonstrate knowledge and proficiency in their area of expertise by virtue of being a registered Professional Engineer, for example.
• Your example about LED lighting is nothing but bare statements that are probably far from the actual facts. The mixing of red, blue, and green colors that you describe could be part of a patent for an RGB monitor, and if that is the case, then not sure what is unsuitable or wrong about that.
• Where a patent lawsuit is filed can influence the outcome in patent cases because different venues have different procedural rules. This makes it more likely that a weak case will go to trial in some jurisdictions, but all juries apply the same laws to the facts of the case. It is not true that "the interests of the jurisdiction" are what determines the outcome, nor is it true that the outcome has nothing to do with the "technology" at issue.
• Regardless of where a patent suit is filed, all patent appeals are heard by the same court, the United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit. All decisions of that court are binding on all lower-level courts, including the jurisdictions you may find offensive to your pre-conceived notions about how the patent system should work.

The often-made complaint with the patent system is that people buy patents for the purpose of making money by litigating rather than using the patent (i.e., trolls). Reasonable minds can disagree with whether this should or should not be allowed, but so far Congress has decided to leave things as is. If you have a complaint, write to your Congressperson.

It is not up to the courts, nor can the courts, throw out patent lawsuits simply because a patent at issue is not being used. Nor is it up to the USPTO to decide whether a patent serves some worthwhile purpose or required that it be used prior to approval. Their sole function is to apply the law to the facts.

 

[GeneralChang]

Whoa, this is going all Samsung suit on us. Guess we'll be seeing periodic updates on this for the next decade or so.

 

[I7guy]

While Intel modems may be “second rate” I have no issue with the speeds.

 

[tooltalk]

There are a few things going on here:

1. FRAND percentage - Qualcomm gets a % of the sale price of each phone, even though the only difference between the different options is storage capacity. Qualcomm makes more $ from a 512 GB phone vs a 64 GB phone, even though the modem is identical and has no increased functionality.
2. How FRAND payments worked - Qualcomm would hold the FRAND $$ Apple paid, and at the end of the fiscal year, as long as Apple was a good boy, Qualcomm would give them a "cash back" deal. Well if you're talking about a huge number, like $1B, and the cash back is several million $, that means that Qualcomm got to earn interest on Apple's $$. Apple was essentially being forced to overpay, and kind of put in a position where they were pressured to keep Qualcomm happy, or they might not get their cash back at the end of the year.

I don't find myself siding with Apple very often, but in this case, I absolutely side with Apple, with one exception. Where I think Apple made a mistake, is that they cut off all royalty payments instead of what I think they should have done, which would be to keep paying while they sue Qualcomm.

1) Yep, if Apple can charge $400 more for 512GB storage in iPhone that costs only $130, why not Qualcomm? In all seriousness, Qualcomm has a cap on the royalty base and it recently reduced that from $500 to $400.

2) IIRC, Qualcomm's rebate was paid out quarterly, not yearly. They are not fighting over interest payment.