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Apple to Upgrade AirPlay to Allow Wireless Streaming Without Wi-Fi?

Westyfield2 said:
Isn't this just a Peer-To-Peer network?

Whilst it'd be good for some people, I'm happy with how it is. My Aiport Expres connected stereo, and HTPC that's pretending to be an Apple TV, are both connected via gigabit ethernet. My iPhone/iPad then just connects via WiFi to the strongest access point, and a couple of switches later the packets arrive at the AirPlay device. Far more reliable than peer-to-peer would be!
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Kinda what I was thinking, just adhoc wifi, not particularly innovative. Not really sure what extra would be required, DHCP server on idevice? Surely that's not rocket science?

Although if it can do it whilst still being connected to infrastructure wireless, that would be clever.
 
Drunken Master said:
Really?

I've not tried AirParrot yet, because I had read of so many issues with it.

But then again, there's a lot of people complaining about products online. Reading these forums you'd think most devices out there don't work for squat because of all the weird glitches, errors and defects a few people get.
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I tried it just for the trial amount. I have my iMac in the same room as a 32" 720p TV and hooked my ATV up to it. There was maybe a half-second delay. But it wasn't really a big deal. Maybe the official OS X version has zero delay and uses much less in terms of resources, but I'm not going to buy a new iMac because of a stupid GPU. I have a 3.06Ghz processor and 12GB of RAM. I kind of have the extra juice to power that stuff over WiFi.
 
Skoopman said:
Hold your horses guys, Apple will never ever transmit sound or video via bluetooth because it sucks. Have you ever listened to bluetooth speakers? The sound is horrible.
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Well then you're misinformed, because AirPlay over bluetooth has been working since about 1901.
 
HarkyBaby said:
AirPlay over Bluetooth definitely already exists...
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Technically it's not AirPlay, but it looks exactly the same when using it. I don't understand why Apple just doesn't make improvements based on the bluetooth standard (streaming AAC and MP3 instead of SBC). But I guess they want their own proprietary solution instead of delivering the best possible experience with all bluetooth speakers.
 
mex4eric said:
It doesn't use Bluetooth, it doesn't use NFC, it says clearly it uses "wifi direct". Wifi Direct is a new feature on the wifi spec and it is what is used for AirDrop, which also doesn't need a wifi "network" but just wifi and "proximity". The Macs which have the right wifi chips are exactly those for whom AirDrop works, which is only relatively newer Macs. No idea which iDevices have the same wifi chip, but I am sure Apple will let you know, and some one with knowledge of the parts, such as iSupply, will be happy to let us know sooner.

So old AirPlay uses wifi with a router, but AirPlay Direct uses the newer wifi chips, hence works with devices that have those newer chips.
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Well said.
 
Skika said:
So...what will it use then? Bluetooth 4.0?
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Its still wifi. I think its more of not using WIFI with a base station but direct peer to peer. or Ad hoc connections. :confused: Confusing title.

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danielowenuk said:
Kinda what I was thinking, just adhoc wifi, not particularly innovative. Not really sure what extra would be required, DHCP server on idevice? Surely that's not rocket science?

Although if it can do it whilst still being connected to infrastructure wireless, that would be clever.
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Next time Apple will make magic just for you.

Its innovative in that it will be seamless and no real need for user setup. That is what Innovative is. Revolutionary no but if you can invent something better we are all ears. :rolleyes:

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*Calypso* said:
Technically it's not AirPlay, but it looks exactly the same when using it. I don't understand why Apple just doesn't make improvements based on the bluetooth standard (streaming AAC and MP3 instead of SBC). But I guess they want their own proprietary solution instead of delivering the best possible experience with all bluetooth speakers.
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Or maybe just maybe they want something better than your PC can deliver with windows. :rolleyes:
 
BlueParadox said:
Meanwhile, too bad video streaming via AirPlay on 10.8 is limited to Macs of the last 14 months!!! :mad:
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It's frustrating, I know, but I think that it's due to an actual hardware limitation, not an arbitrarily imposed software limitation. The newer Macs have hardware support for decoding/encoding H264 video (or something like that) that is necessary to process the mirroring that the old computers just can't do fast enough. Even so, on a brand new MBP, mirroring is too laggy for anything really useful.
 
iMacFarlane said:
It's frustrating, I know, but I think that it's due to an actual hardware limitation, not an arbitrarily imposed software limitation. The newer Macs have hardware support for decoding/encoding H264 video (or something like that) that is necessary to process the mirroring that the old computers just can't do fast enough. Even so, on a brand new MBP, mirroring is too laggy for anything really useful.
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Even over a wired connection to the Apple TV?
 
Iconoclysm said:
Airplay already works that way - it only uses WiFi to establish the two devices, then creates an adhoc wireless network connection between the two.
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Are you certain about that?

If so, that means the iPad/iPhone (or perhaps the AppleTV) must be on two Wifi networks at the same time: your Wifi network to download content from the Internet and the adhoc 'direct' network for communicating between the two devices. I didn't think that was currently possible.

Since you can access the internet & use Airplay at the same time, I assumed both iOS device & AppleTV are communicating via the router; which probably contributes to the latency in Airplay gaming. I was hoping a direct Wifi would alleviate this greatly.

The other possibility, for Airplay gaming you will - in the future - be able to download a copy of the app to the AppleTV, and only the 'controls' need to be transmitted. That would definitely improve the latency enormously, and would be possible over Wifi & Bluetooth.
 
kiljoy616 said:
Or maybe just maybe they want something better than your PC can deliver with windows. :rolleyes:
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How is it better that I would have to buy a new "AirPlay Direct certified" speaker instead of just using my current Bluetooth speaker with iOS finally being able to stream AAC and MP3? Apple should make the most out of existing standards before coming up with new ones, especially if they are half-proprietary.

What's next? AirPort Express only supporting Apple (certified) hardware? Spending $1000 more on your next car just to have an AirPlay Direct sound system that renders useless if you should ever switch to Android?

Not everyone wants to get caught knee deep in Apple's proprietary ecosystem!
 
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I'm thinking bluetooth would be used to find devices and initiate the connection easily and all the traffic would be done via ad-hoc wifi. This would be great for auto manufacturers. Imagine having cars with just displays (for the back seaters) and you can just flip any video to any of them. No need to have actual dvd players anymore.
 
Sounds interesting, but what if my neighbor has it too? Do I have to listen you his music? lol
 
danielowenuk said:
Kinda what I was thinking, just adhoc wifi, not particularly innovative. Not really sure what extra would be required, DHCP server on idevice? Surely that's not rocket science?
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The mobile hotspot feature already provides a DHCP server on iOS devices.
Although if it can do it whilst still being connected to infrastructure wireless, that would be clever.
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As several people in this thread have claimed that AirPlay already uses a direct connection between the sending and the receiving device while naturally maintaining the connection to main WiFi router. But I don't know at the moment whether that claim is correct.

What this most likely does is just to automate the set-up (no need to switch on the mobile hotspot feature) and make the discovery automatic.

Not owning an Apple TV (only an Airport Express), I don't know how complicated it is to set up a an ATV to connect to mobile hotspot but automatic must clearly beat any procedure in terms of ease of use.
 
CrAkD said:
its wifi direct kinda....looks like the ipad or iphone will CREATE the network itself then connect to it and airplay like normal.
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Which by the description seems different that just bluetooth connection.


How long is this Sept 12th presention going to be?
between ios features, ipad mini, airport, 13"inch retina, and finally iPhone how long will I have to wait to pre-order :)
 
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manu chao said:
Not owning an Apple TV (only an Airport Express), I don't know how complicated it is to set up a an ATV to connect to mobile hotspot but automatic must clearly beat any procedure in terms of ease of use.
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Not complicated, but if you have to enter the network password using the ATV remote it's slooooow. Particularly if you have a secure password.
 
The A2DP Bluetooth profile is not AirPlay over Bluetooth. Apple made the interface seamless (so it at least feels the same as AirPlay), which was a good job but apparently has some of you fooled.

That being said, I don't think that A2DP is as high of quality as AirPlay. But this does sound like a type of Bluetooth technology that Apple is making proprietary.

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manu chao said:
As several people in this thread have claimed that AirPlay already uses a direct connection between the sending and the receiving device while naturally maintaining the connection to main WiFi router. But I don't know at the moment whether that claim is correct.
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I don't think that is true for 2 reasons:

1. There are (jailbroken) apps out for iOS that turn it into an AirPlay server. There are also apps for Mac OS X and I think Windows that turn your computer into an AirPlay server. This has to work over the connected network. I find it hard to believe that if a direct connection was required that these other device would work at all as AirPlay servers because of that hardware level tweaking that would be required.

2. My ATV 3rd gen is connected via Ethernet and I don't think that the WiFi is even on. I'm pretty sure all my streaming is routed through the Ethernet and not beamed directly to it's WiFi antenna (but I could be wrong).
 
faroZ06 said:
Whatever. What I want is for AirPlay to work with my phone line.

1. Connect Airport Express or Apple TV to phone line.
2. Enable some kind of home phone AirPlay mode on an iOS device.
3. Make calls and receive calls on your home phone line using your iOS device.

Also, I miss the ability to connect the phone line to your computer and make calls on it.
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What's a phone line?
 
Nickerbocker said:
2. My ATV 3rd gen is connected via Ethernet and I don't think that the WiFi is even on. I'm pretty sure all my streaming is routed through the Ethernet and not beamed directly to it's WiFi antenna (but I could be wrong).
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Same here.

When I heard someone say that current Airplay implementations use an AdHoc WiFi (after using infrastructure for discovery) that didn't sound correct.

In fact, our AppleTV and the VSX-1021 receiver are both on a wired connection (we have a GB 8 port switch under the TV rack), and are both Airplay'ed to (from iOS and OSX) and note the VSX AVR doesn't have any WiFi ports, only one wired ethernet port.

***

I always thought a neat idea for device adhoc would be something like "AirShare" for broadcasting/subscribing to a feed of music meta-data from another local device. So as someone was playing music, you could get a feed of the artist/title, store it in a local queue, then have integration into iTunes so you could follow up and buy.

Not unlike Shazam, but no listening/analytics needed.
 
Nickerbocker said:
The A2DP Bluetooth profile is not AirPlay over Bluetooth. Apple made the interface seamless (so it at least feels the same as AirPlay), which was a good job but apparently has some of you fooled.

That being said, I don't think that A2DP is as high of quality as AirPlay. But this does sound like a type of Bluetooth technology that Apple is making proprietary.

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I don't think that is true for 2 reasons:

1. There are (jailbroken) apps out for iOS that turn it into an AirPlay server. There are also apps for Mac OS X and I think Windows that turn your computer into an AirPlay server. This has to work over the connected network. I find it hard to believe that if a direct connection was required that these other device would work at all as AirPlay servers because of that hardware level tweaking that would be required.

2. My ATV 3rd gen is connected via Ethernet and I don't think that the WiFi is even on. I'm pretty sure all my streaming is routed through the Ethernet and not beamed directly to it's WiFi antenna (but I could be wrong).
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Wifi is always on. That's how airplay works. I have mine in the ethernet too but I can stream from any ios device. My Mac Mini is my itunes media hub and it's wifi only.
 
The WiFi doesn't bother me as much as not being able to send music to multiple rooms at the same time. I hope that gets fixed with this update as well.
 
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