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The potential of desktop chips in an iMac fits nicely with the rumoured possibility of the iMacs getting bigger (30"?) screens. The extra 6 diagonal inches equates to a hell of a lot more space inside. That's space for cooling and bigger components, n'est ce pas?
 
So what? They were still incredibly slow.

It is pretty well known that Intel's Core chips have been able to run near 4 Ghz on air for a while. With liquid cooling over 4 Ghz and with phase change cooling at or around 5 Ghz.

Intel doesn't have any competition forcing them to up the clock rate. Now it is all about how many cores one can stuff on a die. Intel so far can do 6.
 
So are there any "rumors" as to when the new iMacs will be sold? And will they be simply an upgrade to the current one, or a completely new design?

I want to switch from a Windows XP system to a Mac + get Windows 7 in dual boot when that comes out, but have been holding off due to the rumors of the new iMacs being right around the corner.
 
I personally can't see a desktop core 2 cpu fitting into the imac, although the mobile quads are still under the core 2 moniker, the latest desktops have gone from core 2 to i7 (nehalem) now. I'd say if anything the rumors got the versions muddled up and if there is a quad its the mobile c2q not the desktop.

The other option is (as brought up in an older topic) is maybe a variation on the mac pro that uses just 1 cpu.
Theres a dual socket motherboard (skulltrail iirc) that used 2 'desktop' processors (it was basically a rebadged xeon system focused more on gaming etc) and there are 'consumer' xeon chips (same socket as c2d/c2q). So its entireley possible that Apple may diversify the mac pro a little and cater for the imac isn't what I want but the mac pro is too much crowd with a single chip mac pro tower - just a different board or just 1 cpu fitted (most dual sockets can run with just one cpu)

I'd say the mobile quad in the imac and/or a single cpu mac pro is the most likely outcome.
 
Mac Midi tower

could this be a sign suggesting a Mac Midi tower to sit in between the mini and the pro, latest rumors of a mac mini with an Atom/Ion config would leave a wide open space for this machine :)
 
Are you sure you don't mean 4 Ghz? My girlfriend's ancient (c. 2004) laptop has a cpu of 3.06 Ghz (as does the top end imac). In fact, Prescott processors reached 3.8 Ghz before intel regressed to the Pentium III design to launch the core range.
The limit seems around 3 GHz in that most systems peek at somewhat above 3 GHz (3.06, 3.2, 3.4 GHz depending on which processor line you look at).
Or, to be accurate: 3.x GHz seems to be maximum with 4 GHz the unreachable number (outside of the world of overclocking).
 
I think we will see quad cores in iMacs, and very soon too. I'm not sure I understand why there is a perceived cooling issue. I think the idea is to have a processor that has slower clock speeds but better use of multiple cores through Grand Central? Would that not equal cooler? My iMac has a 2.8 Ghz. Core2 Duo, but, if I had Grand Central and a 2.66 or 2.4 Ghz quad core, would that not equate to more "power"?
Anyway, I think we will see quad cores in the iMac.

Rich :cool:
 
I could see a high-end 24" iMac with quad-cores coming. I don't see all iMacs going quad-core right now. The price points don't make sense.

Just to have all the facts, here, I'd like to point out that the current iMacs are using cpus with a TDP of 55W and that those low-power quad cpus have a TDP of 65W.
1- I believe that with a slightly better cooling system, at least the 24" iMac could receive those cpus.
2- nvidia also has desktop versions of its single-chip 9400 chipset, in two flavors 9300/9400
3- IMO, the price points of the current mobile quad-core cpus don't make sense in the iMac line-up. While the quad 2.00GHz is "just" $348 (but more expensive than a mobile dual-core 2.66GHz), the 2.26GHz model is $851 (same as the current dual-core 3.06GHz) and the quad 2.53GHz is $1,038. Apple will not replace the top-of-the-line dual-core 3.06GHz iMac, with a quad at 2.26 (or even 2.53GHz).

If Apple can use the 65W quads in the iMac, the cost savings on the cpus would allow other refinements without changing the current price structure:
- LED-BL displays
- more RAM
- better dedicated GPUs
- more storage
I even think that it could lead to price cuts in the high-end, using the 65W 2.66/2.83GHz quads at $320/369 vs the mobile 2.93/3.06GHz duals at $530/851.

I wouldn't mind (if possible) this kind of iMac line-up:
$1199/1299 LED-BL 20" iMac quad 2.33GHz, 2GB RAM, 9600/256 or better...
$1499 LED-BL 20" iMac quad 2.66GHz, 2GB RAM, 9600/512 or better...
$1699/1799 LED-BL 24" iMac quad 2.66GHz, 2GB RAM, 9600/512 or better...
$1899/1999 LED-BL 24" iMac quad 2.83GHz, 2GB RAM, 9800/512 or better...

in bold the current iMac prices.

It would probably make also more sense to offer:
- dual-core mac mini (updated)
- quad-core iMac
- dual quads Mac Pro (probably by the end of the quarter)
as a simple desktop line-up.

Grasbak said:
I guess that is why they are developing snow leopard - making the most out of lower powered chips.

Not exactly, they are developing snow leopard to make the most of multiple cores (on any kind of chips: cpus or gpus). Also, I don't expect SL to be released before the WWDC (june-july 2009).
 
It continues to blow my mind how much power you get for so cheap. Either of the cheaper 2 Core i7s, or any of these Core 2 quads are just such a bargain.
 
I think "New Product" means "New Product." I suspect Apple is going to release an upgradeable mid tower so many people have been clamoring for.

Yup, all twelve of them :D

The iMac is good for a lot of people but not for people that want to have the ability to upgrade their video card or people that want more then two memory slots.

If that's the case, then the solution is a Mac Pro. If you can't afford a new one, then simply do the same thing that people who want a Porsche for 1/2 the MSRP: buy used.

The Mac mini pretty much has the same issue, hasn't been selling well and has the same form factor as Apple TV (another product that's not doing that well.) The Best thing for Apple would be to release a Mid Tower and then put an optical drive in AppleTV and have the Apple TV and OS X GUIs (installable option) available as two different users.

But if the problem is canabalization, then not reducing the total number of 'close contenders' will solve the problem ... how?

Traditionally you would think that a mid tower would cannibalize iMac and/or MacPro sales, but with so many people moving to portables it would help to galvanize Apple's position on the desktop for a lot of people that have major complaints about Apple's desktop strategies and go about building Hackintoshes to attempt to resolve those problems.

But you've just walked right past why Apple's desktop position can't really tolerate even more fragmentation: with 50-70% of consumers buying laptops, the remaining piece of the pie is already divided into 3 major slices (mini, iMac, MP) and to add the proverbial xMac to the lineup would invariably have to canabalized *something*.

Similarly, while we keep in hearing about huge demand for people who want the ability to upgrade video or more RAM slots, the reality is that over half the market is voting with their wallet for laptops, which offer neither of these upgradability features.


I've never understood Apple's desktop strategy...

The general issue is that desktops are the " yesterday's horse & buggy" that has been overtaken by laptops. From there, its merely a question of how to handle a transition without too much vulnerability...just look at Film vs Digital to see how things can move a lot faster than the marketplace suppliers could have expected.


If I could plot a graph of xMac likelihood, I reckon it would be peaking right about now, albeit at around 25%. Between intel's roadmap, the recession, and the conflicting rumours about the mac mini getting bigger/smaller with less/more features and power, the promised land cannot be far away.

By some reports, up to 70% of all sales are already laptops. To then add the xMac as a "slice-of-a-slice-of-a-slice" of the desktop simply can't result in numbers as high as 25%. To split the share up equally four ways (mini/TV, iMac, xMac, MP) would result in a ~7% share.

And when you realize that http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/01/31/HNindianotebooksales_1.html stated (2 years ago) the following:

"Business buyers accounted for 77 percent of desktop sales during the period, with home users accounting for the remaining 23 percent."​

...it wouldn't then be unreasonable to assume that since Apple has very low market penetration in the Enterprise that the percentages of consumers choosing notebooks is even higher, which means that you have even a smaller pool of potential desktop buyers to offer an xMac to. As per the combination of the above, it seems reasonable to project that the total consumer desktop market is 23% of ~30%, which is 7% of the total, which is currently split up amongst the mini/TV, the iMac, and the MacPro ... which if we then split it down further by adding the xMac means that each gets around 2%.

Thus, the business case question is if you're going to design, build & support a new product that's going to only be worth 2% of your business, or if you're going to ignore the 'opportunity lost' so as to better focus on the bigger items in your portfolio?


The fact is that something drastic has to happen to apple's desktops now anyways, purely because of the way nehalem is being rolled out...there is no way apple can twiddle their thumbs waiting for mobile variants whilst dell gets a 6-month lead on this generation of processors.

Sure, but the current Mac Pro is now a year 'stale' and Dell still hasn't really beaten it on price/performance.

Come fervent product-line-gap-denying zealots, fanbois, protesters of cannibalism and even the few rational observers of apple's nichey marketing strategy (by which I mean you, Tallest Skil): heap your venom upon us. For my own part, i'm used to it.

FWIW, I'm not denying that there isn't a gap, but merely that the market forces are such that I don't see the viable business case to try to bother to plug it.

In addition to the desktop --> laptop trend, we need to keep in mind that the common underlying reason for the xMac fan club is because its customer demographic is one of frugality through extension of the useful lifespan of their hardware by pulling DIY upgrades.

Since this customer gives less money to Apple in the long run (because the upgrades won't be bought from Apple, nor will they be buying an entirely new Apple system as frequently), the business case you're trying to argue that Apple should pursue is to take action to cut their own revenues.

Of course, "never say never". Sure, I'd love to have one too, but I simply don't expect it to realistically happen, unless there's some reason, such as a profound legal surprise in the Pystar litigation and Apple needs a rear-guard action to counter a potential explosion of Dell-distributed Hackintoshes.

-hh
 
Just to have all the facts, here, I'd like to point out that the current iMacs are using cpus with a TDP of 55W and that those low-power quad cpus have a TDP of 65W.
1- I believe that with a slightly better cooling system, at least the 24" iMac could receive those cpus.
2- nvidia also has desktop versions of its single-chip 9400 chipset, in two flavors 9300/9400
3- IMO, the price points of the current mobile quad-core cpus don't make sense in the iMac line-up. While the quad 2.00GHz is "just" $348 (but more expensive than a mobile dual-core 2.66GHz), the 2.26GHz model is $851 (same as the current dual-core 3.06GHz) and the quad 2.53GHz is $1,038. Apple will not replace the top-of-the-line dual-core 3.06GHz iMac, with a quad at 2.26 (or even 2.53GHz).

and lots of other stuff that is logical and seems plausible...

What you've written is pretty much my own thoughts on the whole situation.

One thing I don't see happening (and you seem to agree, but others don't) is Apple offering dual core and quad core options in a single range (the iMac). At least I can't see them offering the choice of 3.06GHz dual core or 2.83GHz quad core.

The all-in-one market is growing; Digitimes were spot on with their information on the processors so there is no reason to doubt that these are specifically intended for all-in-ones and that as the biggest manufacturer of that type of system Apple won't be using themin the iMacs.
 
Is Apple waiting for this chip for the Mac Pro too? Because it's way more overdue for an update than the Imac.
 
Is Apple waiting for this chip for the Mac Pro too? Because it's way more overdue for an update than the Imac.

No that is waiting for the Xeon 5500 series to be released which may not happen until the end of March,so we may not see new Mac Pros until early June.
 
The potential of desktop chips in an iMac fits nicely with the rumoured possibility of the iMacs getting bigger (30"?) screens. The extra 6 diagonal inches equates to a hell of a lot more space inside. That's space for cooling and bigger components, n'est ce pas?

Oooohh. I like your thinking!;)
 
Another thing to consider on the heat issue is that we don't actually know the thermal envelope of the iMacs.
 
By some reports, up to 70% of all sales are already laptops. To then add the xMac as a "slice-of-a-slice-of-a-slice" of the desktop simply can't result in numbers as high as 25%. To split the share up equally four ways (mini/TV, iMac, xMac, MP) would result in a ~7% share.

What he said was that because of general interest, roadmaps and rumors, he pegs the likelihood of a release at 25% -- not that it would account for 25% of sales.

Read it again:
If I could plot a graph of xMac likelihood, I reckon it would be peaking right about now, albeit at around 25%. Between intel's roadmap, the recession, and the conflicting rumours about the mac mini getting bigger/smaller with less/more features and power, the promised land cannot be far away.
 
I think Apple is preparing the iMac to use the Core i7 CPU and the Mac Pro to use the Gainestown Xeon CPU, since both machines don't have to consider space issues. Expect them to be announced in late March 2009 for April 2009 delivery, where the new machines will include a major discount coupon for upgrade to MacOS 10.6 ("Snow Leopard").
 
Another thing to consider on the heat issue is that we don't actually know the thermal envelope of the iMacs.

Although it would probably be safe to say under 100W total. With the most of the budget going towards cooling the CPU (which is only really needed when under heavy load).

Would it be safe to say the PSU rating would also be the largest amount of draw the system could pull (and thus) the most heat the system could generate?

Another thing to remember is although the CPU says 65W it is possible that it doesn't put out that much heat at all. That rating is the max for that line of CPU's. The fastest CPU availible with the same TDP is more likely to get near it than the slower CPU.
 
Why, just 2 years ago most of this forum was adamant that there would never be a multitouch fullscreen video ipod, because it would cannibablise iPhone sales, even tho the iPhone hadn't even come out yet and the iPod had an 85% marketshare to protect.

Were there really people who said that? Morons. :p

I couldn't care less about the cannibalism idea, personally, so I don't know where you're coming from singling me out.

This is why there won't be an xMac anytime soon:

Remember the Macintosh 128k? Heard of the iMac line? Do you know why they were all-in-one computers?

This is from the mouth of a (really) old Apple engineer, "Because Steve Jobs didn't want the end-user messing around with his (Jobs') hardware."

A computer with user-expandability goes against Jobs' business model.

...where the new machines will include a major discount coupon for upgrade to MacOS 10.6 ("Snow Leopard").

That's REALLY funny. I mean, SERIOUSLY funny.
 
Holding out for a Core i7 iMac, so going to be a while yet!!!

Yeah really. I know it's early but I would've thought that aapl would move on to the X58 chipset by now on their 24" iMac's. At least a i7 920.

I'm going to hold out.
 
Would it be safe to say the PSU rating would also be the largest amount of draw the system could pull (and thus) the most heat the system could generate?

I believe the power draw usually peaks at about 80-90% of the TDP, but yes no more than 100%.
 
I think Apple is preparing the iMac to use the Core i7 CPU and the Mac Pro to use the Gainestown Xeon CPU, since both machines don't have to consider space issues. Expect them to be announced in late March 2009 for April 2009 delivery, where the new machines will include a major discount coupon for upgrade to MacOS 10.6 ("Snow Leopard").

Hmmm, lets see, according to the email from Stevey , ummm NO, no discounts :apple:
 
Yeah really. I know it's early but I would've thought that aapl would move on to the X58 chipset by now on their 24" iMac's. At least a i7 920.

I'm going to hold out.

Those processors just run too hot for an all-in-one. Probably won't see a Nehalem iMac (and it won't be i7, maybe i5 or i6) until 2010.
 
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