Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple to Use Tesla's 'Megapack' Battery to Help Power Apple Park at New Energy Farm
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
That's the thing with nearly all reliability metrics--it's statistical. I have no doubt you're telling the truth, and your Teslas have been reliable, and more so than BMW, Mercedes, and Fords you have owned. I'm sure there are many thousands of Tesla owners with a similar experience.
But unless you're a fleet manager, that's an anecdote, not a statistic. Taken in aggregate--if the Consumer Reports and/or JD Power methodology is any good at all--they appear to be less reliable than other makes.
Which doesn't even mean you shouldn't buy one if you like it--millions of people knowingly buy cars from less-reliable marques for a variety of perfectly legitimate reasons. It just means that they're not all there when it comes to either quality control or longevity of design.
Of course, the condenser in a Model Y scabbed in at the factory with plastic trim from Home Depot was a bit disconcerting.
Last edited:
Every single BMW owner I know has ended up with major repairs, zero Tesla owners. Heck of an anecdote, I know.
On the not so anecdotal level, every ICE engine has close to 2,000 parts, an EV engine has three. Give me the anecdote free reason an EV engine is likelier to break down than an ICE engine. And sorry, but I don’t buy “because Consumer Reports said so”.
rezenclowd3
macrumors 65816
That's oversimplified.
What does need to stop is exclusive access to software tools to pair hardware together.
An example of this is BMWs EWS system which pairs the ecu to a key box that even bmw did not remove for the race team. At least some found it, where you change a digital word to any non 00 value.
It's not like it actually stopped engine theft as one could just steal the ews box as well.
My 2013-vintage model s has spent a lot of time in the shop. Multiple problems with the MCU (when it was replaced, my car was in the shop about a month. At least they gave me a loaner), TPS monitors, heater (which completely died), both visor mirrors, a bolt somewhere on the axle that came loose and caused my car to swerve all over the road (that one was early on in my ownership), lots of software problems, etc.
I love the car, but it’s certainly not been what I’d call reliable. We have had 2 BMWs in the same time period, and they’ve had no problems that I can recall. My prior car was a boxster, and it was far more of a problem that the Tesla (engine block cracked and the engine needed replacement a week before the extended warranty expired, electrical system had an undiagnosable problem that kept killing the battery, something died and caused smoke to poor out the back, which was the final straw for me, etc.).
For what you get Starlink is a bargain. It is not meant to compete for business from people living where they can get 100 Mbps from their cable or terrestrial services. It is meant for people living in underserved areas where even 5 Mbps download would an improvement. Unfortunately in the US this large parts of the country. For them going to 150+ Mbps download and 40+ Mbps upload is life-changing. And Starlink has relatively low latency because they are low-earth orbits and a laser connected grid of satellites. Compared to other satellite services they are many times faster and with much lower latency.
My 2016 BMW X3 had a number of minor but annoying issues. These included body rattles, unreliable A/C, and failures of the HUD and other displays. BMW gave up on fixing the rattles, said they all do that. The A/C compressor and dryer were replaced at 2,000 miles. The HUD computer at around 6,000 miles. This is was the 9th (and last) BMW our family has owned/ BMW's quality has slipped as BMW started making cars outside of Germany. I believe the X3 was made in South Carolina.
You seem to think that my being willing to believe both Consumer Reports and JD Power on Tesla vehicle reliability has something to do with EVs versus ICE vehicles. No such thing, and that didn't even occur to me--I despise ICEs, drive a plug-in hybrid that I barely use the ICE on myself, and my next vehicle (and all subsequent) will be a pure EV.
Now, it's entirely possible that when comparing only EVs from the companies in question, Teslas are actually more reliable. To my knowledge nobody's done a large-data-set survey like that, and if you're buying an EV it's what you really want to know.
Importantly, though, reliability ratings (as far as I know) don't specify the particular kind of reliability in either case. A lot of things can break on a car, and the engine is way down on the list on an ICE vehicle as well. I've known people with horrifically unreliable cars on which the ICE or even anything directly connected to it was never the problem.
So it's entirely possible that the reliability problems are with the fancy extra tech (like the power door handles) breaking, like is often the case with luxury cars, but it's nothing the prevents you from driving the car. That I don't know, and would like to.
I will point out, though, that the anecdote-free reason an ICE drivetrain might be more reliable than an EV drivetrain is that it's an extremely mature technology with decades of refinement. Electric motors are also extremely mature, but their use in a battery-powered consumer vehicle drivetrain much less so, and it's almost certainly not the electric motor that's going to break if something does.
As an engineer, I also take issue with the fallacy that number of parts corresponds with likelihood of breaking down. If that were the metric, huge jetliners would be exponentially less reliable than small prop aircraft, and they are demonstrably not.
A better analogy, though, is the stationary battery systems that Tesla makes. They compete directly with diesel ICE generators in many backup applications. A Powerpack system has just a handful of moving parts, and unless you count each battery cell very few overall. A diesel ICE is similar to a vehicle. But nobody reasonable, anecdotal or otherwise, is going to argue that a large diesel ICE genset is currently more reliable than a Powerpack, simply because it's an extremely mature technology.
This isn't a knock on stationary battery power--it's awesome, I want it to become ubiquitous, and my entire career currently centers on those as the core of a renewable power generation system. But as an engineer I'm not going to pretend the technology is at the same level of maturity, and number of parts has nothing to do with it.
I'll add that I don't treat Consumer Reports or JD Power as definitive in anything they say, either, but they certainly have more expertise than you or I, and a much larger data set than you, I, or probably anyone else outside the actual car companies themselves. All the rest of their vehicle marque rankings seem pretty reasonable, so I don't know why Tesla would be any different.
The ground antenna is effected by weather, it needs a matrix of low orbit satellite to provide this level of speed, bandwidth and service. We don’t need more objects orbiting in the sky when space junk can possibly hit it or a solar flare can interrupt or damage these things.
Its somewhat affordable to attract new users.
The Youtube videos I have seen show the antenna does pretty well in snow and even ice storms. The antenna is heated so it usually melts anything ice that lands on it.
At 140+ satellites being launched a month, the constellation have been forming pretty quickly. I was on the Iridium program way back in history and SpaceX is doing things LMSC could not even think of.
I was looking into StarLink for a friend and sure enough it mention heavy rain as an interference, not going to list them all. It’s possible that some versions of the antenna are not offered in some markets but the place I live we have snow and ice and did not see anything related to a heated antenna, maybe this is a new addition/feature.
I give them that it has seen a quick launch for sure, my friend has captured its deployment in the night sky. The key question here is maintenance cost of the entire system.
This guy's video show how it worked for him in the snow in Canada. There are many other similar videos. Here is an article from someone in Stove, VT about their experience in NE winter weather. Not perfect, but that is why they called it the "Better than Nothing Beta".
It may be that depending upon where you live they do or do not ship your antenna with heating. This article mentions that.
Also, I would expect some signal degradation during rain. But, it seems to be a reduction in speed rather than a complete blackout, like on older Iridium devices. Also, the constellation is less than 20% complete. I suspect the speed will be significantly faster and the connection more robust when it is completed in a few years.
Looking forward to the versions for RVs and large boats. Add a couple of Macs and you have the perfect setup for someone that wants to work remotely while on an endless road trip or sail.
Last edited:
Out of sight out of mind indeed... If you would put your own sights on apple’s climate website you would know that they are requiring carbon neutrality along their entire supply, manufacturing, and assembly line by 2030. They aren’t exporting their emissions, they are canceling them out
I believe StarLink will be in competing markets with 5G, granted the speed is no where near compatable but for many it comes down to price and stability. People usually have a mobile phone in remote areas and at times is simpler to deal with one bill and company. Only time will tell.
5G and all terrestrial-based systems are limited by the ability to get their infrastructure to networks. Starlink is not currently focusing on markets where strong interconnection already exists. But that may change as Starlink builds out and the speeds increase toward the 1 Gbps worldwide target. I think there is tremendous upside to their business and plan on making a sizable investment in Starlink stock when it is available.
With the possibility of drone delivery and dystopian surveillance State, StarLink is being primed for deployments such as those. Does not make sense to have so many low orbit satellites for those rural internet users the cost of operation to what is user affordable just does not make sense as many people reside in urban dense areas and traditional service providers have been expanding service and speed though it depends on many variables.