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...And if they get the tax holiday, they can then aggressively invest that money in new infrastructure, stores, product development etc.
Hopefully the tax holiday you want turns out better than the last one a few years ago.


Tax Holiday Fail
Congress should not endorse another big tax break for overseas corporate profits because the last one in 2004-2005 was a costly failure, said U.S. congressional investigators in a report released on Monday.
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The subcommittee's report found that the last repatriation tax holiday cost the Treasury at least $3.3 billion in net revenue lost over ten years and that it "produced no appreciable increase in U.S. jobs or domestic investment, and led to U.S. corporations directing more funds offshore."
This issue will always be a point of contention between those who understand how real economics works, and those who think money grows on trees.
If money grew on trees it wouldn't be such a big deal that companies stashed money in select tax havens instead of paying taxes on it, but, hey, only the little people pay taxes, right?


Lethal
 
Uh, forget MS--we need to focus on Apple's self-serving publicity stunt that MS would never do!

MS releases their paid job studies, so they can be examined for mistakes. Is there a link on Apple's website for the study they paid for? Thanks!

Speaking of other companies, this skeptical article in the Financial Press points out that Apple isn't subtracting out the negative job effects it has caused:

The author notes that Apple's success has caused decreasing jobs related to competing products. E.g. How many RIM sales, support and programmer jobs in the US have been lost because of Apple? How many Windows Mobile or Win CE related jobs?

Perhaps it's just a wash. Perhaps RIM and WM programmers moved over to iOS and Android, and we've basically kept the same number. Dunno. Interesting question.
 
MS releases their paid job studies, so they can be examined for mistakes. Is there a link on Apple's website for the study they paid for? Thanks!

Speaking of other companies, this skeptical article in the Financial Press points out that Apple isn't subtracting out the negative job effects it has caused:

The author notes that Apple's success has caused decreasing jobs related to competing products. E.g. How many RIM sales, support and programmer jobs in the US have been lost because of Apple? How many Windows Mobile or Win CE related jobs?

Perhaps it's just a wash. Perhaps RIM and WM programmers moved over to iOS and Android, and we've basically kept the same number. Dunno. Interesting question.

Someone made the claim
"What if Microsoft ever attempted to claim "they" have created millions of jobs - just because millions are employed in the Windows software development ecosystem. They would be called out as luddites.
and I nicely ;) directed them to exactly what they claimed didn't exist.

That's the only purpose of that post.
 
Wow..really? App development that bad? Some make app dev biz the new gold rush. I can see how the app market is overcrowded. I'd like to see a survey on this

Am I being counted as one of the 210K people in app development?

Because I consider myself unemployed right now and am looking for a job. iOS is a fun hobby that happens to bring in about $10/day; it's no where near enough to sustain me.


----------

Yes, high paying retail jobs (sarcasm). That is like being excited when another McDs opens up... :rolleyes:

Apple is one of the few U.S. companies that have been actually adding stores and adding jobs since the 2008 recession hit. Most have been closing stores and furiously laying off people up until recently. Props to Apple on that.
 
...And if they get the tax holiday, they can then aggressively invest that money in new infrastructure, stores, product development etc.

Anyone who owns a business for more than one day understands that businesses do not pay taxes. They write the check for taxes--and then they pass them on to their customers built in to the price of their products and services.

That doesn't mean that a CEO or other high level exec doesn't pay taxes on their own income, that's not the issue here. It's the corporate entity. Apple is doing quite well as it stands. They aren't in fact using that money for anything. It's literally just sitting there waiting to be brought home. If the current administration isn't capable of doing the simple math required to justify welcoming these billions of dollars into our economy, then the next one will. Apple knows this, as does every other large corporation that is doing the same thing.

Investors want a dividend right? Well, in order to pay one in the US, the company needs to bring the money home first. That means they'll pay an arm and a leg in taxes before a dividend can be distributed. That will equate to a massive devaluation of the company's cash holdings and the dividend would be reduced--if even still a viable option.

This issue will always be a point of contention between those who understand how real economics works, and those who think money grows on trees.

The economy is more than just Apple. Now why would a tax holiday generate better results than the last time? It seems like these ideas fail horribly, and they just wait until people forget to propose them again.
 
Just because the US doesn't manufacture anything anymore, doesn't mean you couldn't do it very successfully even with 'high' labor costs. Ever been to Germany?

I LIVE in Germany LOL. What you're saying is true it can't be done by one company (let alone the government) overnight. You need the economic infrastructure first, like Germany built itself since the last 60 years.
 
Its not that simple...

I see Apple's cash balance and their off shore production situation as protection from an extremely fast moving industry.
Having all that manufacturing done in the US by hundreds of thousands of workers would kill apple if iphones and ipads suddenly stopped selling.
They would be in the same position that GM were in. You cant just wind down the staff you have if their your employees.

In the scenario that iphones and ipads arent as popular anymore Apple just amend the contracts with foxconn and cut down there production without having to deal with employment law and redundencies that companies like GM have to.

The tech industry moves far faster than the car industry (look at RIM and Nokia and how quickly they fell) so having their own assembly line workers would be bad news.

Finally, I'm sure that if there was a company like Foxxconn in the USA with the ability to guarantee millions of products built on time, Apple would use them. In fact so would Dell and Microsoft. The fact is there isn't a foxconn over here and its not apple's responsiblity or expertise to be a foxconn.
I'm sure apple isnt averse to having its products built in any particular company (Brazil have just started their plant) but its up to the US government and private investors to make such a firm like "foxconn usa".

It really is unfair to single out Apple for doing business in exactly the same way as everyone else in their field, simply because they are more succesfull than everyone else. Any journalist mentioning Apple in any negative consumer electronic manafucturing stories should make sure that Apple share the headline with MS, Sony, Samsung, Dell, Asus etc.. Otherwise the story is just crap.
 
Am I being counted as one of the 210K people in app development?

Because I consider myself unemployed right now and am looking for a job. iOS is a fun hobby that happens to bring in about $10/day; it's no where near enough to sustain me.


Make a good APP then? I mean JESUS CHRIST people... and i'm not just attacking you dude... but attacking the attitude...

"Hobby that happens to bring in"


Like we are placing BLAME on iOS?? If you make a great app, people are going to buy it, PERIOD.
 
Talk to a farmer.

farm•er |ˈfɑrmər|
noun
1 a person who is asked to feed the world yet paid less than it costs to feed his family

I wonder if any of the workers in China get thousands of $$ in subsidies like the US farmers. And last time I checked, the crops weren't exactly picked by hand. This isn't 1850 anymore.
 
They will create same 514,000 more jobs if they bring back those manufacturing jobs sent to China by them.
 
I see Apple's cash balance and their off shore production situation as protection from an extremely fast moving industry.
Having all that manufacturing done in the US by hundreds of thousands of workers would kill apple if iphones and ipads suddenly stopped selling.
They would be in the same position that GM were in. You cant just wind down the staff you have if their your employees.

In the scenario that iphones and ipads arent as popular anymore Apple just amend the contracts with foxconn and cut down there production without having to deal with employment law and redundencies that companies like GM have to.

The tech industry moves far faster than the car industry (look at RIM and Nokia and how quickly they fell) so having their own assembly line workers would be bad news.

Finally, I'm sure that if there was a company like Foxxconn in the USA with the ability to guarantee millions of products built on time, Apple would use them. In fact so would Dell and Microsoft. The fact is there isn't a foxconn over here and its not apple's responsiblity or expertise to be a foxconn.
I'm sure apple isnt averse to having its products built in any particular company (Brazil have just started their plant) but its up to the US government and private investors to make such a firm like "foxconn usa".

It really is unfair to single out Apple for doing business in exactly the same way as everyone else in their field, simply because they are more succesfull than everyone else. Any journalist mentioning Apple in any negative consumer electronic manafucturing stories should make sure that Apple share the headline with MS, Sony, Samsung, Dell, Asus etc.. Otherwise the story is just crap.

Will you please stop making sense?
It is not appreciated on MacRumors.

Just look at the repeated dumb comments of producing in USA.
 
What if Microsoft ever attempted to claim "they" have created millions of jobs - just because millions are employed in the Windows software development ecosystem. They would be called out as luddites.
That is what I would expect from such calculations. It is to show how important an industry, a company or a product is for the ecenomy.
 
They will create same 514,000 more jobs if they bring back those manufacturing jobs sent to China by them.

Nope. Either the products will become too expensive. Nobody will buy them. Apple will go bankrupt and there will be no jobs. Or Apple will become unprofitable. The stock price will drop like a rock. Retired people living off their APPL investments will feel poor and stop buying stuff. The companies selling to retired people will go bankrupt. And then there will be less jobs.

Why do you want to put so many people out of work by bringing these manufacturing jobs back to where there aren't enough junior manufacturing engineers ready and waiting?
 
With that kind of mentality it's going to be a very common wage (adjusted for inflation) in 10 years from now as well. Enjoy how good you have it then and keep spitting on people who actually give a crap instead of those who have bullied you into these conditions...:rolleyes:

The point is that economies and wages adjust to be in sync. We're not starving here, we are just fine. You have no idea. Who's to say that our economy is not the right one and yours is the one that's out of whack? You Americans, jeez! Stop trying to make everyone else just like you because you think you're so much better than us.
 
The media and the public is asking for stuff like this -- listen to almost any politician or journalist talk about jobs, and you will hear total nonsense.

And by the way, I agree with Apple that they have helped create jobs, I just don't think these kinds of claims are necessary, and people can obviously disagree about whether these numbers are meaningful.
 
I wonder if any of the workers in China get thousands of $$ in subsidies like the US farmers. And last time I checked, the crops weren't exactly picked by hand. This isn't 1850 anymore.

So what you're saying is you have no clue as to the realities of (independent) farming?

Thanks for clearing that up.
 
Minimum wage in the US is $7 an hour. I make $10/day programming, or $70 a week. Thus it's the equivalent of working a minimum wage job 10 hours a week. To be equal to a full time minimum wage job, I'd need to be making at least 3 times as much as I do. Not up to a minimum wage, full time job means I'm unemployed by most standards, I think.

Some math:

Apple is paying out to iOS devs at a rate of over $2B per annum. Divided by the average full-time software salary in the U.S. of $80k/year, $2B is enough for 25,000 full-time software jobs. Divided by the national minimum wage, it's enough for over 135,000 full-time jobs. Or enough for 26 hours of minimum wage pay for 210,000 workers.

But the App store pay-out rate to devs has been increasing, so it might get to the equivalent of 40 hours soon.

Obviously it's not paid out equally to all developers. But the developers who in the higher percentiles, as well as a lot of the development companies, are employing lots and lots sub-contractors (development, artwork, game music composition, marketing, customer support, and etc.). Many in my locale.

Since you're only getting 10 hours worth, you will need to write more apps, or market them better, to bring yourself up to at least the mean average for iOS developers of 26 hours of minimum wage income.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

To be fair it's now a multi-national...
Why should all or even more jobs be in the USA? I'm actually quite annoyed that all the testing goes on in the USA because it prevents Apple from finding certain issues with "international" machines.

They have NEVER, and will NEVER fix the widespread international Wi-Fi issue. Try buying a Mac in Australia, bringing it to the USA (the Wi-Fi branding INSTANTLY changes to USA... hard coded into the memory!) take it to Japan for 5 years... then come back to Australia where channels 12 and 13 are not only legal, they're ESSENTIAL!!!!

There is no way to change your internal Airport back to "Australian"... so mine's now as if I'd bought it in the USA. Testing will never admit/find this issue (although they admit it is 100% likely due to US + Japanese laws banning channel 12 & 13) because all the Wi-Fi testers are in Cupertino.

Consequently I don't take my computer and Airport Express to the USA or Japan anymore (although I own property in all 3 countries and travel regularly) becaaaaaause travel has broken the internal Wi-Fi cards on a LOT of my MBSs.

Bring more jobs to Australia!!! Not because our economy needs them, but because it will improve the testing & bug fixing!!!!
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

The USA is a funny country... people seem to get so conservative and protective!!!

If you want a production line job in a silicon factory then move to China. Why should everything be in the USA? Absolutely no reason for a multi-national!!!
 
Are people still worry about their jobs or getting jobs, really pathetic. Have yet to be unemployed, get your lazy self and upgrade your skill in real careers and knowledge and stop taking those Psychology classes. :rolleyes:

Since when knowledge turns itself into money and employment? This is what your employer wants to convince you.
 
Make a good APP then? I mean JESUS CHRIST people... and i'm not just attacking you dude... but attacking the attitude...

"Hobby that happens to bring in"


Like we are placing BLAME on iOS?? If you make a great app, people are going to buy it, PERIOD.

I'm not blaming anyone for it not bringing in money. I'm saying that Apple can't say that I'm employed. I would imagine at least 90% of registered developers bring in under $10K/year and similarly consider it just a hobby.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

To be fair it's now a multi-national...
Why should all or even more jobs be in the USA? I'm actually quite annoyed that all the testing goes on in the USA because it prevents Apple from finding certain issues with "international" machines.

They have NEVER, and will NEVER fix the widespread international Wi-Fi issue. Try buying a Mac in Australia, bringing it to the USA (the Wi-Fi branding INSTANTLY changes to USA... hard coded into the memory!) take it to Japan for 5 years... then come back to Australia where channels 12 and 13 are not only legal, they're ESSENTIAL!!!!

There is no way to change your internal Airport back to "Australian"... so mine's now as if I'd bought it in the USA. Testing will never admit/find this issue (although they admit it is 100% likely due to US + Japanese laws banning channel 12 & 13) because all the Wi-Fi testers are in Cupertino.

Consequently I don't take my computer and Airport Express to the USA or Japan anymore (although I own property in all 3 countries and travel regularly) becaaaaaause travel has broken the internal Wi-Fi cards on a LOT of my MBSs.

Bring more jobs to Australia!!! Not because our economy needs them, but because it will improve the testing & bug fixing!!!!

USA tries to open other countries borders for its goods, but denies immigrants and goods from other countries. This isn't anyway aligned to its liberal discourse. We need real, worldwide liberalism, the real globalization and not "one-way" globalization.
 
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