Apple Transitioning Macs to Custom Chips With 'Incredible' Performance Starting Later This Year

[HiRez]

Right now, with a big.LITTLE design, Apple's 8 core A12Z chip is also only getting that 1327 on four cores (4/4). We got a demo that the A12Z is clearly good enough for macOS (that I never doubted), but we got nothing that Apple is ready to scale this stuff up.

The 1327 is only single-core performance, not multi-core. For comparison, the 2019 A12Z iPad Pro gets ~4600 multi-core, while the 2020 13" MacBook Pro (4 cores) gets ~4500 mult-core. So very close, and in a much more challenging environment (no fans in a much smaller, lighter enclosure).

There's no doubt they are going to design chips that take advantage of each range of device's needs, so a 5nm laptop or desktop A13 (or whatever they call it) running with a lot fewer constraints is going to smoke those numbers whether they increase cores or not.

 

[iBug2]

Or just natively run under Windows.

Yes, but I doubt that most Mac users bought their Macs to run Windows. I did it for a while to play games as well but then stopped. This will hurt some people, but not many.

 

[cppguy]

Do Apple silicon (ARM) Macs with macOS 11 Big Sur support virtualization of Windows?

Windows ARM is completely irrelevant, only a few people use that. When we say Windows, we tend to mean Windows x64, and that's not going to run on any ARM processor, let alone Apple's. Unless Microsoft make a Rosetta of their own. I doubt Parallels or VMware are capable of doing that, when even Microsoft couldn't do it.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Yes because all apps on windows already run on X86, they can be easily ported to intel Macs. But even more about that is true today. All major software houses already write their software for intel and for ARM. We have an ARM photoshop for a year now. This time the transition will be even easier for developers I think.

But that's a big difference, don't you see? The transition from PPC to Intel allowed software that didn't then exist on Mac at all. Will the transition from Intel to ARM offer any new software that has never been on a Mac previously? Everyone keeps mentioning ARM versions of Office and Photoshop, but we already have Office and Photoshop. That's not new.

 

[MacOH21]

While this isn't the crowd for this argument, you could say Chromebooks have proven -- at some level -- that the operating system is irrelevant. I would suggest that Chromebooks are cheap and that's why they're popular, but there's also a whole generation of kids learning computers on Chromebooks, iPads, and iPhones long before they ever know about macOS or Windows.

 

[djjeff]

Microsoft was ready with an ARM based Windows in 2011, the industry and Chips were not. I am sure Windows support is coming.

IMO Windows on ARM is a non-starter. What is also required is for Windows applications to migrate to ARM. Something that I can't really see happening given the huge installed based of x64 software

 

[damphoose]

The choice of processors in 2021 could present a challenge for consumers making purchase decisions.

I think you are overestimating the level of information the average consumer gathers before making a purchase. Even one as “big” as this.

 

[scaramoosh]

I have two problems with this....

1. Compatibility will be killed
2. Apple keeps raising the price of their hardware to the point it isn't worth it any more.

I used to buy Macs and they were never the most powerful, but they were a good price to performance ratio and no one else made Laptops like Apple. However now everyone is making great Laptops, and you can buy way better for a later of the price these days. It's all well and good Apple saying their new ARM chips will powerful, but you can bet legacy support wont be there and no more bootcamp.

I've found myself pushed away, I'm still using this Mac atm from 2015 but it's the last one I will ever buy, and I wont ever update the OS as I want 32bit support. The one good thing about Windows is Microsoft have kept support across the board, even though Windows supports ARM now. They still support 32bit programs and you can always find someone who has made software to fix any issues.

Now I just think no Apple I'm done.

 

[pankajdoharey]

Could the new silicon that Apple will release by the end of yr for Macs outperform Intels? I would like to see that.

 

[mindquest]

I wonder how they will fragment their lineup. Usually the biggest difference was processor speed. Will they have different versions of the Mac A14 version?

I am thinking the same thing! Or does the A15 show up in the mix to surprise us all!

 

[citysnaps]

Few of us here are "old enough" to remember 68k to PPC, lol.

I still have my Mac Iici. With a Moto 68030 clocking at a blistering 25 MHz.

 

[Stephen.R]

making this machine eventually useless

All computers of every kind are eventually useless. Not that different to people really.

 

[jvlfilms]

I was going to replace my 2013 rMBP that's starting to show its age with the 2020 10th Gen 1TB as another 5+ year machine.

Now do I drive this into the ground for probably another year minimum until ARM MBPs or MBAs are out and stress tested; or grab an i5 Air as a bridge machine, deal with occasional throttling for my use, and maybe go ARM iMac and keep the i5 as a floater?

I had a Late 2013 rMBP which I updated last summer to the last 15" with an 8-core i9. This thing gets loud and hot when under a full load in something like Premiere.

The 16" is still a very good machine, especially coupled with the new 5600M. The benchmarks look quite outstanding but the i9 itself is the problem that I don't see changing anytime soon, although the i9 thermal throttling was definitely improved over the 15 I have (and a much better keyboard)

 

[motomotomoto]

I would not accept such benchmarks. Too many variables to draw any meaningful conclusions.

agree with that, whatever chip is used in the first Macs will be substantially modified and improved from that chip

 

[dspdoc]

Don’t get the Developer Transition Kit if you need Thunderbolt support. I just looked up the specs of the Mac mini they are using for that kit. It does not have Thunderbolt, only USB 3 (probably 3.1 gen 1 and gen 2 as it says 5Gbps and 10Gbps speeds). That doesn’t surprise me since Intel owns the rights to TB3. I don’t know what the commercial Macs will have. Is USB4 ready yet for consumer use? I haven’t seen anyone sell a USB4 product yet. FYI, the Transition Kit with Mac mini running an A12Z is $500 with priority given to those who already have a Mac app in the store.

This is terrifying for those of us with loads of TB3 devices. How is this going to pan out? Intel could always say piss off to Apple in regards to Thunderbolt.

 

[iBug2]

But that's a big difference, don't you see? The transition from PPC to Intel allowed software that didn't then exist on Mac at all. Will the transition from Intel to ARM offer any new software that has never been on a Mac previously? Everyone keeps mentioning ARM versions of Office and Photoshop, but we already have Office and Photoshop. That's not new.

Software development today is done more for ARM and less for intel. Probably there are 10 times more developers, maybe 100 times, developing for ARM. So bringing the mac to the ARM ecosystem should attract even more software development. If you have people working for you, developing for ARM already, using them for a Mac project is easier now since they don't have to learn how to develop for intel.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

How the hell did they run Tomb Raider for the INTEL MAC on an iPad SoC that fluently? That looks insane.

Again, they are running an emulated game, which is already a taxing game on Mac chips, on an iPad SoC???!??!!?!?

Because all those visuals run on the GPU, not the CPU. When you strip away the visuals, it's probably impossible to tell if the game is newer than 2004. The scripting logic isn't terribly taxing - it's often written in an interpreted language like lua because the performance matters so little.

 

[Hastings101]

I thought the way they introduced ARM chips was well done. Hopefully the real-world performance matches what was demonstrated to us and it wasn't just done up for show.

Also, finally goes to show 100% beyond a doubt that iPads are being held back by the OS and wimpy developer support. If the hardware can run freaking Tomb Raider in emulation it should be running any professional software or PC AAA game out there.

 

[djjeff]

Yes, but I doubt that most Mac users bought their Macs to run Windows. I did it for a while to play games as well but then stopped. This will hurt some people, but not many.

They may not have bought them to run Windows but the fact they can run Windows is a huge benefit. It's my opinion a lot of people run Windows on their Macs.

 

[pankajdoharey]

IMO Windows on ARM is a non-starter. What is also required is for Windows applications to migrate to ARM. Something that I can't really see happening given the huge installed based of x64 software

Windows also has a Binary Translation technology like Rosetta, it might work, I mean when the Industry and chips are ready Microsoft would do a good job. I agree the job they did on Surface X was not good but the ARM chips weren't ready either.

 

[djjeff]

Could the new silicon that Apple will release by the end of yr for Macs outperform Intels? I would like to see that.

That's the million dollar question. It's my opinion Apple wouldn't be doing this if they couldn't.

 

[iBug2]

Because all those visuals run on the GPU, not the CPU. When you strip away the visuals, it's probably impossible to tell if the game is newer than 2004. The scripting logic isn't terribly taxing - it's often written in an interpreted language like lua because the performance matters so little.

That Mac did not have a dGPU, it's only using A12Z. So it's even more impressive.

 

[oneMadRssn]

I think they did a good job of explaining:

Faster performance, and I can run every single iOS app on my Mac. YES PLEASE. That’s like millions of apps, not thousands.

If that's the sell, I'm not sold. Running iOS apps on an iPad is already terrible, I can't imagine how much more horrible it will be on a Mac.

Now, if millions of iOS developers start releasing Mac versions of their apps, I will be very interested. But as far I can see, all the best iOS apps already have Mac apps.

But look at the list of the top 100 iOS apps. Take away every app either already has a native Mac app (e.g., Office), or the iOS app is just a way to access a cloud service that is already doable in a browser on Mac (e.g., Netflix), and what are you left with? Not much.

 

[NickName99]

I’m looking forward to finding out exactly what was meant here:

“Rosetta 2 on Apple Silicon Macs offers fast performance and translates your apps at install time.”

There’s evidently something more than just emulation going on here. My first impression was that maybe it’s some sort of decompile+recompile process, but that seems far fetched.

 

[iBug2]

Could the new silicon that Apple will release by the end of yr for Macs outperform Intels? I would like to see that.

2018 iPad's are faster than 2020 13" MBP's. Their chips already outperform intels.