Apple Trying to Torpedo Spotify's U.S. Launch?

[Killyp]

Thats true but it is free to listen to as much as you want (apart from the BBC licence fee in the UK) and theres nothing to stop you from recording the tracks you like

There NEVER has been anything to stop people from recording tracks of the radio except the legality and moral issues (stealing), it's just become considerably easier to achieve the same thing with modern technology (the internet).

If it became much easier to walk into a store and steal a CD, would you start doing it?

But how many albums nowadays use live session musicians compared to 20 years ago?

That's a whole new debate in itself, but the answer is 'still heck of a lot of them'. We'll end up going into the whole 'artistic direction dictated by money' (which is currently worse than it ever was in many ways).

And how many albums nowadays are worth the purchase? Its mainly a few good tracks and filler.

I've bought three fantastic new albums in the last few weeks.

Andreya Triana - Lost Where I Belong
Bonobo - Black Sands
Gorillaz - Plastic Beach
Jamie Lidell - Compass

There are a couple of other albums I'm looking at getting, and others I'm looking forward to this year. There have been loads over the last year or so.

I would argue that its also not possible because the talent to make such good records isn't there either. The problem with some record labels is they see what is selling and try to mimic it. Throw 2-3 singles on it and make the rest of the album out of cuts that are throwaway

That's the way some albums have been made, and some albums always will be made. Not all albums (in fact most) aren't like that as soon as you start to look past most mainstream trash...

Yet look how much she sells. And to what market, young teens i would bet. These guys dont care if an album has fantastic artwork and has been recorded using the best equipment and talent available. They just want to listen to their catchy pop tunes on their mp3 players at 128KBPs on their bundled iPod earbuds

Agreed, the problem is that goes for a large number of people. I study at a music conservatoire, and most of the students here still listen to Spotify instead of buying CDs.

Give most people the choice of paying for something or having it for free, and they'd rather have it for free...

 

[j-traxx]

Go Apple Go Apple Go Apple! I Dont Want Free Music!

As a music producer i am especially paying close attention to this issue. Itunes has giving the majors and independents a wonderful platform for distribution and sales. It's a simple formula for profit and mutual financial gain by all parties involved. its fairer than the old cd sales model with costs taken out for "breakage" and "loss". Anything free, threatens the livelihoods of everyone in the music industry, independent or major. I dont want spotify giving my stuff away at all. i want apple and walmart and target and amazon to fight over it, for a fee. Everyone wants everything for free and everytime that happens an artform or an industry gets destroyed.

think of it. what do you do to make a living. imagine some company out of the blue offering it for free. After you worked on it. like you sell cars and you go through all you have to and make the sale and when the customer is about to get the keys, the boss says "he'll be doing this for NO COMMISSION at all. enjoy!

 

[Nordichund]

Spotify is great. It is like the iTunes store but instead of hearing 30 seconds of a song you hear the entire version for free. Never ONCE have I heard it crash or lag or just hang. You type in the song or artist or album and there it is.

I am not surprised aPple are worried.

 

[henrikrox]

Can't believe some people.

Mindless apple zombies. Spotify is the best music service ever. Used it for a year and it's freaking amazing. Offline streaming on iPhone or on 3G or wifi.

So in other ways. Fu apple

 

[adrian.oconnor]

I don't see any concrete evidence in that article about anything, except Spotify haven't got any deals with the four big US labels (and even that isn't concrete). It looks to me that an enthusiastic journo or their editor is stretching some vague rumors to breaking point so that they can get Apple in the story, because they know it'll drive more traffic. What is the source of their Vagas meeting quote that they base all of their Apple statements on?

And you know, even if the rumor is true Apple are entitled to have an opinion on whether ad-supported free streaming will work. They are experts in the field after all, and the source suggests they were giving the labels their opinion. The line they mustn't cross is co-ercing the labels to do something by using iTunes' dominant position as a bargianing tool (e.g., sign up to spotify and you can kiss goodbye to your iTunes millions). If they did that they would be no better than Microsoft at their most evil -- but realize there is absolutely no suggestion that Apple are doing this, and I don't think they ever would.

To me, this is just sensational journalism and has no value. I love Spotify, I love iTunes. I listen to Spotify 8 hours a day and happily hand over £10/$16 dollars every month for it. I really hope they make it to the US, but I won't be at all surprised if they don't because, as we've seen so many times, digitial music start-ups don't historically have much success.

 

[Akula971]

Fooey!

Oh dear how sad "I'll not be going into music because it won't pay" Real artists, who create music that people want to hear, Tour. They make their money from performing in front of people who will pay to see them. So if you are any good, people will pay to see you. The days of the record "Industry" are finished, it just has not sunk into their tiny brains yet.

The only scam doing the rounds now is the create star shows like the X factor and "name country" gots talent, where the likes of Simon Cowell pluck innocents off the street, exploit them and move on.

Apple just don't like competition do they? Go Spotify !!!!

 

[adrian.oconnor]

As a music producer i am especially paying close attention to this issue. <snip>

You know, I didn't realize how much of an issue it was until I saw this visual that somebody else here posted:

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2010/how-much-do-music-artists-earn-online/

If that chart's accurate, then these streaming services are already on borrowed time unlesss they can really quickly adapt to be as profitable as single-track downloads for the artists. They can't live off back catalogues alone, and even those will dry up if artists are only making pennies from 1000s of listens a day.

 

[Henriok]

Apple should be afraid

Here in Sweden, iTunes use have dropped like a stone when Spotify came. Even die hard Mac evangelists find it hard to justify using iTunes instead of Spotify, so Apple should really pay attention.

I think their pitch to the music industry is correct though. Artists don't get paid nearly as much as they do through iTunes. I don't think that the prince point at which Spotify offers its services to their customers is viable. It's too cheap.

It stifles piracy somewhat but it reduces the sales for music even more. I think that the record labels are seeing the European Spotify launch as an experiment before they allow a launch in the US, and I really don't think that they are happy with what Spotify offers.

One of Sweden's most popular artists blogged that he wouldv'e gotten more if he stood 20 minutes at a street corner, than what he got from Spotify in a year. And as previously stated, Lady GaGa (who was the most listened to artist in Spotify) only got a couple of hundred dollars for a whole year. That surely can't be something that would attract the labels?

This might change if Spotify would launch on a greater market, where ads really could make an impact, but I don't think so.

 

[covisio]

Am I correct in thinking that it isn't possible to just get a free account on Spotify in the UK? I think you have to get an invite from a premium account holder? Someone correct me if this is not the case. I think the iOS app only works with a premium account also?

I use free Spotify. I like it. There is some key music missing from it, but there's stuff on there you would struggle to find elsewhere.

I can also see the issues though. Spotify is different from radio in that you can choose a particular track and play it as often as you want, i.e. much like owning the track, but...without....paying....for....it.

If it's offered for free (legally), then I will have it for free. It would be stupid not to. It's up to the labels/artists to negotiate reasonable terms for their product. Having free Spotify doesn't stop me using iTunes or paying for content from iTunes when I feel I would benefit from owning the track.

I can see why Apple see it as a threat, but competition is good. Apple can be very proud of what they've achieved in opening up digital music sales. They've sold a ruck of content and given revenues to labels and artists that they would have struggled to generate themselves. Not to mention all the back catalogue content that has been bought through iTunes.

However, they were never going to have it all to themselves for ever.

 

[wirelessmacuser]

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go apple!

You prefer less options?

It's Apple Voodo, Steve wants _all_ the money, and his minions are lining up with open wallets.

 

[chatin]

It sounds like 1984 all over again only Jobs is the black and white oldster on the screen demanding obedience.

 

[3583582]

No it really isn't! Read up a bit...

Yes, it is. You read up on it and learn how not to think wrong.

 

[wirelessmacuser]

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This sucks, but it makes sense Apple would want to protect their business.

As long as there is an iOS app, which there is, I think it would help their business. Apple doesn't really make any money from the store.

Yeah right...

 

[eldaria]

This is GREAT news in my, perhaps selfish, opinion.
I'm a studio based recording artist and I can tell you that Spotify pays almost zero to the artists it features.

Here's an article for you
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/apr/13/spotify-songwriters

I write music because I love music, but if I can't pay my bills at the end of the month, then i'll have to stop and do something else.

See this is where it goes wrong.
Making money is not a right, it's a benefit.

If you can't pay your bills with the job you do, you either made a bad deal, or you are in the wrong business in regards to your performance.

This goes for all professions.
I don't get why Artists, labels etc, think that just because you produced something, all of a sudden you should get payed?

If Spotify pays crap to the artist, artists should leave and find alternative revenue sources, just as I will leave Spotify if I can't find the music I want.

 

[3583582]

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Yeah right...

Yes, right. How many times do we have to go through this? iTunes Store and App Store is not making a lot of money (for Apple). Try to google "iTunes revenue" or "App Store revenue" and see for yourself. It's no secret. The value in these services is not in revenue but in the value they add to Apples products.

 

[wirelessmacuser]

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Don't be evil Apple.

I'm glad I don't live somewhere like that where freedom is defined by corporate interests. Spotify rocks!

Too late.

 

[AAPLaday]

There NEVER has been anything to stop people from recording tracks of the radio except the legality and moral issues (stealing), it's just become considerably easier to achieve the same thing with modern technology (the internet).

If it became much easier to walk into a store and steal a CD, would you start doing it?

No im big against piracy. A few months ago when the extent of the App store piracy was revealed i got into a few heated debates with people on here who used cracked versions of games and software for iOS. Im not saying you should have access to every album ever made for nothing. Im saying that a monthly fee and the ability to listen to music is a lot better than having people torrent these albums for free.

As you know the free Service Spotify offers has lower kbps tracks and don't sound CD quality. People are required to pay for achieve greater audio quality listening. I would hope this would encourage people who like an album to either buy it or upgrade to a subscription.

Getting people off pirating has to be worth trying does it not?

That's a whole new debate in itself, but the answer is 'still heck of a lot of them'. We'll end up going into the whole 'artistic direction dictated by money' (which is currently worse than it ever was in many ways).

I've bought three fantastic new albums in the last few weeks.

Andreya Triana - Lost Where I Belong
Bonobo - Black Sands
Gorillaz - Plastic Beach
Jamie Lidell - Compass

There are a couple of other albums I'm looking at getting, and others I'm looking forward to this year. There have been loads over the last year or so.

This is why Spotify is so good for me. Being from the UK and being a massive Hip Hop fan means that i don't get any other way of trying out new artists without services like Spotify. The 30 second sample on iTunes doesn't cut it. I have wasted a few £s buying albums because i only liked a few tracks to find out the rest was garbage.

Thanks to Spotify i have added in the last month alone 7 albums that i wouldn't have bought if i didn't have the opportunity to listen to them a few times through to make sure i liked what i was getting. This is often the case with many experimental albums where it does take a few listens to get into and fully appreciate what the artist is trying to do.

That's the way some albums have been made, and some albums always will be made. Not all albums (in fact most) aren't like that as soon as you start to look past most mainstream trash...

And that is what Spotify helps us do. Appreciate and seek out new artists without worrying about buying an album we wont like.

Agreed, the problem is that goes for a large number of people. I study at a music conservatoire, and most of the students here still listen to Spotify instead of buying CDs.

Give most people the choice of paying for something or having it for free, and they'd rather have it for free...

I myself wish that SACD has taken off. I have a gorgeous little Denon mini system which i love but i have to admit that most of my music playing is done through my iMac nowadays. I think major changes are needed to the way music is recorded. How many people when buying a hifi/stereo simply go out and buy a big bulky 80s looking thing because it has a big booming bass and very little clarity? Do Lady Gaga and Spice Girl records really need so much work put into them? Couldn't the labels produce them cheaper by cutting a few corners? Would the majority of their listeners notice/care.

Maybe they should offer 2 versions for sale. A medium and a high fidelity version? I don't know im just throwing ideas about but i think something needs to change

 

[*LTD*]

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\"Free\" always means someone key to the success of the service isn\'t getting paid. Which is always suspicious, and certainly unhealthy over the long term. We\'re not talking about volunteers here or pro bono organizations. We\'re talking about a business model which doesn\'t offer any incentives to the very people creating the content.

Hate to break it to you guys, but Apple is right.

 

[Killyp]

Yes, it is. You read up on it and learn how not to think wrong.

Oh dear how sad "I'll not be going into music because it won't pay" Real artists, who create music that people want to hear, Tour. They make their money from performing in front of people who will pay to see them. So if you are any good, people will pay to see you. The days of the record "Industry" are finished, it just has not sunk into their tiny brains yet.

That's an INCREDIBLY idealistic view on music. As a performing AND recording musician I can assure you that things are not that straight-forward.

Firstly, do you realise how much of a leap there is between being able to make it as a recording artist and a performing musician? This will just make the whole 'top-to-bottom' divide even larger. I'd have to be gigging every night of the week at the moment to make it pay for food, rent, clothes, a car to bring my kit in, somewhere to stay when away from home (there's no way there are enough live music venues in Cardiff to survive off gigs in local venues). Even fairly well known artists go on huge world tours and don't make that much money off it...

Touring isn't as lucrative as many people like to think it is, it's only when you get to the very top-end of the game that you can really start making a living off it.

Apple just don't like competition do they? Go Spotify !!!!

It's not just Apple that doesn't like Spotify - those of us who are trying to make a living from music don't like it either.

 

[Daveoc64]

Doesn't mean that Spotify is sustainable. It isn't actually. 20 hours for free a month are worth 297 US dollars if one song is 4 minutes long and costs 99 cents. I'm having hard time believing that they get that kind of money from ads to cover "free 20 hours a month".

You're assuming people buy $300 of music to listen to every month.

Most people clearly don't.

Most people also listen to the same music over and over, not 20 hours of "unique" music.

I'm using my Spotify subscription right now to listen to a song that I listened to with Spotify yesterday.

IMO it makes so much more sense to get a tiny amount of money from a lot of people using Spotify, than absolutely nothing from people who are downloading music illegally or getting it from somewhere else that doesn't charge for it.

 

[3583582]

It's not just Apple that doesn't like Spotify - those of us who are trying to make a living from music don't like it either.

Wow, classy to put my name on someone else's quote dude. Keep up the good work!

Spotify has a business model that long-term will work out great for both artists and customers. Your problem is that you don't think outside of the box. There are plenty of ways to increase profit other than the way you think about it. Increase volume, increase target group, sell add-on services, not to mention the fact that it'll be a more fair playground, where marketing becomes less important and people will be able to grow their own music style. In long term Spotify has the potential to be awesome for everyone.

But I guess all you can spit up is another three question marks.

 

[AAPLaday]

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\"Free\" always means someone key to the success of the service isn\'t getting paid. Which is always suspicious, and certainly unhealthy over the long term. We\'re not talking about volunteers here or pro bono organizations. We\'re talking about a business model which doesn\'t offer any incentives to the very people creating the content.

Hate to break it to you guys, but Apple is right.

Well then should Youtube not start charging for viewing music/videos/music videos?

 

[spcdust]

Having being an early adopter of Spotify I can whole heartedly recommend it and think it's a great shame it's US launch is being lobbied against by Apple. The Spotify team have got it so right in terms of GUI, simplicity of use, sharing playlist and having group playlists. When Spotify was launched in Beta it went some way in filling the gap left when Pandora were forced to withdraw their European service.

I'm a very long time Apple user and likely will continue to buy their computers HOWEVER, let's not kid ourselves - Apple are / have become an equivalent to Microsoft in their anti competitive business model. Users are all but forced to only consume media sold by Apple and their hardware is "crippled" to achieve this unless you jailbreak / homebrew. The iPhone, iPad and especially the new Apple TV are just devices consumers pay for but ultimately are just a means for Apple to continue to sell you media sanctioned by them and provide Apple with very lucrative revenue streams.

It's a genius PR trick that Apple still retain the image that they're the "groovy, alternative" to the corporate Microsoft - it really is a case of a "Wolf in sheeps clothing".

 

[calb]

There are two groups of people in this thread who a really rubbing me up the wrong way:
1) those who claim they are in the music business and don't like Spotify;
2) those who are praising Apple for their Christian actions.

In the case of 1, take it up with the labels. Ask them to stop making deals with Spotify. If it really is unsustainable, the deals will stop and Spotify will be dead in the water. If your label is letting people stream your music for diddly squat, take it up with the intermediary in the whole picture.

In the case of 2, Apple is not trying to save the music industry or do what is right. Apple wants to remain the most popular player in the market. If Spotify has a bad business model, labels will not do deals. If labels are doing deals, then for Apple to badmouth a legitimate service is ridiculous.

I'm a university student in the UK and (to the best of my knowledge) Spotify is used by most of the student body on a regular basis. It's far more flexible than iTunes when you have friends round, because for 99p you can construct any sort of playlist you want... including lesser-known artists that don't fit into iTunes' mainstream ambit.

I have friends who like classical music, but I certainly don't have any classical albums on my computer. Spotify really does come into its own. It certainly encourages people of my age to keep away from file sharing, so the model works for us. Does the model work for the industry? At the moment, yes... or surely Spotify would not have any content.

FWIW, I use both iTunes and Spotify extensively. iTunes houses my collection of music and I do buy albums quite regularly. Spotify (and Last.fm) let me check out and experiment with new artists, in addition to providing a huge library of content to cater to my friends' tastes.

NB: Recent popular releases often aren't always available on Spotify Free for some while. To listen to mainstream album releases you have to use a Premium service.

Edit: As an observation, there seems to be a split between Europeans (who have and support the service) versus North Americans (who think it's hell on earth). I wonder why that could be.........

 

[netdog]

I am amazed at how cr@ppy Spotify's offerings are in the UK.

Sorry, but what they're giving away for free is in now way equivalent to a music store with broad to complete offerings from almost every major artist and loads and loads of lesser known artists to boot.

It may be cool to like Spotify, but Spotify just isn't that cool. Sorry kids.