Novus John
macrumors regular
you're the expert, boss.
Apple TV 4K does not support 24.000fps playback
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you're the expert, boss.
andrewstirling
macrumors 6502a
It’s simple maths really. How many 24s are in 60? Broadcasters for years have been implementing a 3:2 pulldown which involves doubling up some frames to get a 24 frame per second source to match a 60hz output. This insertion of frames is what causes the judder and people can notice it when a doubled up frame is displayed.
Some newer TVs can do a reverse 3:2 pulldown and extract a judder free image from a 60hz signal. They tend to output the final image at 120hz which is a multiple of 24. The Mac certainly doesn’t do that though so 3:2 pulldown judder will absolutely be present.
AVBeatMan
macrumors 603
I’m still confused about the refresh rate. What have you guys set it at? Read this article but still not sure.
http://4k.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-4k-tv-refresh-rates-in-one-post-15371-2/
http://4k.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-4k-tv-refresh-rates-in-one-post-15371-2/
Mac 128
macrumors 603
Depends on the source, that's why this is a problem. It takes 10-14 steps to manually switch back and forth between formats.
For me, it's 4K 24Hz HDR for HDR encoded movies (SDR for non). There's not generally enough non-movie 4K content I watch, but I suppose some TV series offered in 4K and especially streaming 4K sports are likely offered at 60Hz (region dependant). 1080p 60Hz SDR for most common sources, like OTA TV and streaming. I'd switch to 1080p 24Hz SDR for 1080p movies, but Apple doesn't even offer it. In some cases, depending on the original source, I'll switch to 720p 60Hz SDR as my TV can improve the picture over Apples upres.
AVBeatMan
macrumors 603
Thanks for your reply. You’d think that Apple would be able to sort this out to auto-select.
Mac 128
macrumors 603
They can, but the reality is, this is likely intentional, as this box is aimed more at the average TV viewer than the home theater enthusiast. They'd rather cut down on the lag time while the box or TV switches to the proper format. It also guarantees the best overall picture, or at least consistent picture regardless of original source for most viewers, even if it's fake HDR.
My mom used to like the old CRT color TV turned up so that reds over saturated the screen, and everything looked garish, but she insisted she bought a color TV and wanted to see the color. The sad part is, most will turn on HDR and not realize their picture is actually worse on some content. Or if they do, they will turn it off, and not realize they aren't getting it on movies that have it.
andrewstirling
macrumors 6502a
I only use the box to display 4k iTunes content so mine is permanently set to 4k HDR 24hz.
AVBeatMan
macrumors 603
What I want to know is is it better to leave at HDR 24hz or HDR 60hz?
For most movies it is 24hz.
That's my thing, for me it is going to be for movie rentals, 4K HDR and 1080p HD. I am just going to leave it on 4k/24 HDR, and then if the movie I rent is HD only, I'll change it to 4k/24 SDR.
I just got my 32gig last night, and when I selected 4k/24 HDR, it told me it was going to output 2160p UHD 24hz HDR-10 422, which is just fine.
Novus John
macrumors regular
Unless your tv has 120hz refresh rate you might not even bother with it. Also some films have 25fps and 120 is not an integer multiple of it, so the results would be crap again.
vipergts2207
Suspended
As far as I know, 25 fps is only common in Europe and is just 24 fps sped up by 4% to account for their different panel refresh rates. The ATV does 25 Hz output for those use cases anyway.
BODYBUILDERPAUL
Suspended
Just rented The Last Face from iTunes this evening. Charlize Theron was stunning in it. Great film but incredibly dark and sad whilst being beautiful at the same time.
The audio was poor tough and we were turning the volume up and down. Sadly watched on ATV4 with no 24p mode. There was a lot of panning throughout the film both horizontally and vertically and the judder was dire - absolutely awful, I reckon the worst that i've ever seen on a film. Anyone who is over aware of judder would be very upset. I can't believe that things like this haven't been taken into consideration with modern design. It really spoils a film.
The audio was poor tough and we were turning the volume up and down. Sadly watched on ATV4 with no 24p mode. There was a lot of panning throughout the film both horizontally and vertically and the judder was dire - absolutely awful, I reckon the worst that i've ever seen on a film. Anyone who is over aware of judder would be very upset. I can't believe that things like this haven't been taken into consideration with modern design. It really spoils a film.
Mac 128
macrumors 603
Do you mean no 24p HD mode? There is a 24p 4K mode, on the second page (via "more") of format options. That's what I use, but my complaint is I don't care for ATV's upscaling of 1080p movies, my Sony does a better job.
-Gonzo-
macrumors 68000
ATV4 was mentioned which doesn’t do 24p full stop.
Mac 128
macrumors 603
I see. More to the point of this article the ATV4K still doesn't do 24p in HD, only 4K. And yes, it's hard to believe "that things like this haven't been taken into consideration with modern design".
Apple may be relying on the TV to handle judder, which my Sony 900E does very well, regardless of the frame rate. Though native 24Hz is far preferable, since the motion settings have to be slightly adjusted when doing a pulldown from a higher frame rate.
BODYBUILDERPAUL
Suspended
GUYS! Your prayers have been answered! I'd like to see everyone happy please. Atmos is on its way. So c'mon time to smile and damn well ENJOY that movie with friends, laughs and cheer because let's be honest, that's what movie time is all about isn't it!
vipergts2207
Suspended
Based on the newest beta firmware, it looks like Apple decided to listen to the ‘home theater tweakers’ on this one with an option for native mode.
Not anymore.
With tvOS 11.2 beta Apple listened to a lot of tech sites and to a lot of the their customers. Thx Apple to not be on the dark side of the force anymore.
Can't say I've noticed that on my 2016 B6 OLED.
What settings are 2016 LG B6 OLED owners using with this new 11.2 beta release. I have Match Dynamic Range and Match Frame Rate turned on and that seems to be taking care of the dreaded soap opera effect. However I only see HDR being used when using the ATV UI. I am curious what it is doing for 4K rentals and Netflix content for example. No sure what resolution it is actually showing since the matching is turned on.
Mac 128
macrumors 603
Wouldn't your TV now tell you exactly what resolution it is showing with Matching is turned on? How you currently get picture information on the TV should be source accurate now with matching. Previously my TV only reported what resolution the ATV 4K was set to, regardless of the source. But matching should now report to your TV the exact resolution of the source.
Thanks. There isn't a real intuitive way of showing what resolution the TV is displaying. Something simple like a "info" button. In any event for those who care if you click on the screen with the TV remote to get the cursor you can then hover over the input in the top left and click on it to see the resolution. Still going to use TV apps for Netflix as they will take advantage of HDR and ATV 4K can't with my TV. 4K rentals don't utilize HDR either but still better than 1080P. Thanks for the reply.