I get that you would prefer your tv to do the upscaling....I would to. But I actually think the Apple TV is decent at upscaling so it’s not that big a deal to me. And I’m someone who gave up on the shield TV because of its poor upscaling and inability to switch resolution.
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Apple TV 4K does not support 24.000fps playback
- Thread starter ActionableMango
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I get that you would prefer your tv to do the upscaling....I would to. But I actually think the Apple TV is decent at upscaling so it’s not that big a deal to me. And I’m someone who gave up on the shield TV because of its poor upscaling and inability to switch resolution.
benji888
macrumors 68000
Apparently. ...on a similar note, while iPhone 8 & X, 2017 iPad Pros play HDR10 & DV video, older devices with the same panels won’t do it...the 8 has exactly the same screen as the 7...it seems only A11 or A10X devices have the needed hardware.
Mac 128
macrumors 603
The main problem I have with the inability of the ATV to match native output of the source, is that every TV is different and has different requirements and needs. If Apple made the TV, then they could control the situation however they like. One issue for me are that my Sony 900E will not allow me to adjust the screen dimensions of a native 4K signal, so I cannot use the wide stretch or zoom feature, when in 4K. There are various other settings no longer available to me with a native 4K signal, with which I can otherwise fine tune a 1080p signal. Moreover, you may think the ATV 4K does a decent job at upscaling, but understand I paid a premium for one of the best upscaling TVs around, and therefore am taking a step backward unless I manually adjust it. Until Apple controls the entire experience, as with most of their other products, they need to offer the customer as many options as possible to adapt the technology to their particular TV.
Why on earth would anyone want to zoom or stretch the image? This actually upsets me. Haha.
I have a 65” Oled TV which has an excellent upscaler but I’m pretty happy with the upscaling qualities of the Apple TV. I do think there’s an element of personal preference however. For example, if I have one criticism of the Apple TV upscaling, it’s that it seems to mildly sharpen the image. If I wander over to the Infuse forum however, there’s a thread full of people criticising the Infuse upscaler (it uses its own) as it doesn’t seem as sharp as the native player.
That being said, there’s no doubt that an option to auto switch resolution would be the best option. I can’t see any reason why they don’t add it to be honest. Maybe if the tech press applied the same amount of pressure as they did over dynamic range and frame rate switching then they’d get it done.
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I'm not convinced the Apple TV 4K outputs proper 24p, even when set to frame-rate match. I'm getting the occasional frame-skip in playback that's peculiar, and I can't quite put my finger on why. And it's nothing to do with bandwidth or a stream-itself issue. Just feels like the Apple TV is outputting 23.972 or somewhere "around" 23.976fps, but not exactly.
Anyone else notice such a thing?
Anyone else notice such a thing?
Scott Davilla
macrumors regular
Are you sure, though? Can you explain the frame skips in “Dark?”
And what is “pretty” exact? What did you time it to be EXACTLY?
Scott Davilla
macrumors regular
60000/1001 ~= 59.94005994005994
Debug Print: -[MainController displayLinkTick:]: displayRate = 59.940060
I'd say that's pretty exact.
Debug Print: -[MainController displayLinkTick:]: displayRate = 59.940060
I'd say that's pretty exact.
Scott Davilla
macrumors regular
my bad 🙂 24 is the same deal;
24000/1001 = 23.976023976023976
Debug Print: -[MainController displayLinkTick:]: displayRate = 23.976024
Interesting. Thank you. So I wonder why "Dark" is having issues in Netflix, - though I must be honest I haven't watched anything else. Do you have a way to see what frame-rate that is in?
Scott Davilla
macrumors regular
Come to think of it, I noticed that last night watching "Dark" too, it did not look like a frame rate issue, more a encoder or decoder glitch. Would freeze for a fraction of a second then jump and continue. Frame rate mismatches don't look like that.
I can snoop it tonight. The console log shows the requested and obtained display range and rate and other interesting info.
I can snoop it tonight. The console log shows the requested and obtained display range and rate and other interesting info.
Ahhh glad someone else noticed it. I don't seem to be able to recreate it easily, and certainly not at the same time-stamps. Be very interested in what your snooping reveals! Thank you!
Scott Davilla
macrumors regular
Got nothing for you, head back to camp 🙂
One glitch after watching three episodes. But by then I was bored watching log (it gets quite large) and missed it. Near very end of final episode. Also not reproducible.
But Frame rate switch was correct.
One glitch after watching three episodes. But by then I was bored watching log (it gets quite large) and missed it. Near very end of final episode. Also not reproducible.
But Frame rate switch was correct.
I've got the same issues watching Dark on netflix. And I think the Apple TV is not supporting 24hz.
Don't get this wrong, I'm not talking about 24/1001p or 23.976p. Some German (or European) movies or TV shows are produced with exactly 24 fps! I'm to lazy to calculate this, but you will get a frame skip after about 45 seconds when you play 24fps content with 23.976fps.
When I activate "match content" I see the following list wiht my 1080p TV:
1080 - 60hz
1080 - 50hz
1080 - 30hz
1080 - 25hz
1080 - 24 hz (film)
So one entry is missing: 23hz or 23.976hz or 24hz. I think the 24hz entry in the list is 23.976hz and the real 24hz is missing. Apple as an US company may have missed something here for the European customers.
Can someone check this? My Yamaha receiver always shows 24hz, doesn't matter if it is 23.976hz or 24hz.
Don't get this wrong, I'm not talking about 24/1001p or 23.976p. Some German (or European) movies or TV shows are produced with exactly 24 fps! I'm to lazy to calculate this, but you will get a frame skip after about 45 seconds when you play 24fps content with 23.976fps.
When I activate "match content" I see the following list wiht my 1080p TV:
1080 - 60hz
1080 - 50hz
1080 - 30hz
1080 - 25hz
1080 - 24 hz (film)
So one entry is missing: 23hz or 23.976hz or 24hz. I think the 24hz entry in the list is 23.976hz and the real 24hz is missing. Apple as an US company may have missed something here for the European customers.
Can someone check this? My Yamaha receiver always shows 24hz, doesn't matter if it is 23.976hz or 24hz.
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Guys, this is TOTALLY OVER OBSESSIVE as it's truly out of your control! Crazy. Stop looking for faults and enjoy what you have! 🙂 I'm so glad you didn't live through VHS, grainy analogue satellite and old CRT TV ) 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
I did live through the analogue TV and VHS times, it was horrible 😉
I'm an IT guy and I just see these things, can't do anything about it 🙂
I'm an IT guy and I just see these things, can't do anything about it 🙂
This actually makes a lot of sense. The key would be finding out if "Dark" is supposed to be 24fps or 23.976fps. Even so, I'm getting a frame skip far, far less often than every ~41 seconds (it's 41 seconds for the 23.976 vs 24.000 mismatch).
I know when I use the built-in Netflix app on my LG OLED C7 TV, I get zero frame-skips at all playing "Dark," or any other material. It would make sense that the TV app would play both 24fps and 23.796fps material without trouble.
*EDIT*
Confirmed. "Dark" is a 24.000fps - i.e. 24hz exactly TV show. So that appears to me the Apple TV is outputting the wrong refresh rate (in this case - 23.976hz is incorrect), which is causing the frame-skips. So I guess we need to file a bug report with Apple...
[doublepost=1513115638][/doublepost]I filed a bug report and speak to an adviser. Of course this is the first they've heard of this... go figure.
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Scott Davilla
macrumors regular
Interesting, tried a 24.000Hz sample. My Samsung UHDTV can do both 24.000Hz and 23.976Hz
displayRateSwitch request: refreshRate = 24.00, dynamicRange = SDR
displayModeSwitchInProgress == YES, refreshRate = 24.00, dynamicRange = SDR
[MainController displayLinkTick:]: displayRate = 23.976025
displayModeSwitchInProgress == DONE, refreshRate = 23.98, dynamicRange = SDR
So we asked for 24 but got 23.976025. Opps Apple 🙂
displayRateSwitch request: refreshRate = 24.00, dynamicRange = SDR
displayModeSwitchInProgress == YES, refreshRate = 24.00, dynamicRange = SDR
[MainController displayLinkTick:]: displayRate = 23.976025
displayModeSwitchInProgress == DONE, refreshRate = 23.98, dynamicRange = SDR
So we asked for 24 but got 23.976025. Opps Apple 🙂
Wait, so you confirmed that the Apple TV is outputting 24.000hz when fed a 23.976hz signal?
Scott Davilla
macrumors regular
The opposite, the app asked for a frame rate of 24.000Hz but got a frame rate of 23.976Hz.
Apple's frame rate API is a request, you might not get what you asked for. The reason is there is no public API that returns the possible display frame rates. But you can see them in the console log when a hdmi device connects and the EDID is probed.
It’s the app. It doesn’t use the native video player so needs an update. Both infuse and mrmc have updated their apps so it looks like plex are slow off the mark