Apple TV 4K does not support 24.000fps playback

AVBeatMan

macrumors 68040
Nov 10, 2010
3,525
1,637
Are there any acknowledged Apple TV 4K settings for the UK?

I have mine set to; Dynamic Range and Match Frame rate to on. Then set format to 4K SDR and Chroma at 4:2:0. Are these the best settings?
 

Mac 128

macrumors 603
Apr 16, 2015
5,360
2,905
Are there any acknowledged Apple TV 4K settings for the UK?

I have mine set to; Dynamic Range and Match Frame rate to on. Then set format to 4K SDR and Chroma at 4:2:0. Are these the best settings?
You could have it natively set to 4K HDR, with auto-match, and chroma 4:2:2 again with auto-match. So your UI will be in the highest quality full 4K HDR, assuming your TV supports it, and the apps with automatically match native chroma when the programs start. If a program is not in DV or HDR, it will appear in native SDR.

I’ve found this works on all major apps, except DirecTV Now, and VUDU. You may have specific apps in the U.K. which similarly don’t support auto-match chroma for its programs, so this may not be ideal for you. But for any of the major streaming apps, it’s probably the best setting to get the highest performance out of your ATV at all times, especially if you use the spectacular arial screen savers.
 
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Andysedg

macrumors newbie
Apr 22, 2019
3
0
I have noticed this problem on several recent film purchases from ITunes - Local Hero, The Queen, An Education, Babette’s Feast all play with annoying stutter. I do not understand how Apple can sell these films but not able to playback them properly. Other films work fine on ATV. It seems more the European content affected, I have a 2018 OLED and Blu-ray’s work fine so unfortunately will go down this route until Apple fix. Does anyone know if Apple give refunds for these films?
 

bluraycinema

macrumors newbie
Sep 14, 2015
25
6
I have noticed this problem on several recent film purchases from ITunes - Local Hero, The Queen, An Education, Babette’s Feast all play with annoying stutter. I do not understand how Apple can sell these films but not able to playback them properly. Other films work fine on ATV. It seems more the European content affected, I have a 2018 OLED and Blu-ray’s work fine so unfortunately will go down this route until Apple fix. Does anyone know if Apple give refunds for these films?
Try switching manually to 50Hz etc.
 

Andysedg

macrumors newbie
Apr 22, 2019
3
0
Try switching manually to 50Hz etc.
Tried that already just makes the judder worse.

Phoned Apple - got through to technical support - they reckon it is a content issue not Apple TV limitation. Did not seem to know about 24.000 encoded films playing back at 23.976 - getting a refund though.
 

WilliamG

macrumors G3
Mar 29, 2008
9,041
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Seattle
Tried that already just makes the judder worse.

Phoned Apple - got through to technical support - they reckon it is a content issue not Apple TV limitation. Did not seem to know about 24.000 encoded films playing back at 23.976 - getting a refund though.
Yep. This is 100% on Apple. They just need to enable 24.000hz on the Apple TV. Can not believe they haven’t done it yet.

Wish someone would edit the thread title since it’s just misleading/false. It’s not fixed.
 
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bluraycinema

macrumors newbie
Sep 14, 2015
25
6
Yep. This is 100% on Apple. They just need to enable 24.000hz on the Apple TV. Can not believe they haven’t done it yet.

Wish someone would edit the thread title since it’s just misleading/false. It’s not fixed.
Mac OS does 24Hz.

But not 23Hz, like the Apple TV.

:(
 

KBJ55

macrumors newbie
Sep 22, 2017
7
3
Just an FYI, the Netflix title "In the Dark of the Moon" is encoded at a true 24 Hz framerate(not 23.967!) so if you watch Netflix content with frame rate Match On you'll notice the frameskip about every 40 secs or so.
 

One800J

macrumors newbie
Oct 12, 2019
1
0
I know I shouldn’t even... but wow this is the most messed up thread ever of people talking without knowing.

If you want to see content perfectly, get a broadcast monitor. Very few things should ever be fed true 24fps content which is always progressive by the way. There’s no 24i. Well. No in content but some TVs convert 24p to 48i.

Basically the only place for true 24fps content is movie theaters. DCPs, digital cinema packages have to be 24fps. Well now they can be anything with newer players but the international standard is 24. Not 23.98.

Now. Every other place from shooting to post production to home release formats should be 23.98. Audio is recorded to be played at 23.98. When we make DCPs we actually have to remake the master audio tracks and speed them up by .01%.

so. AppleTV is displaying content fine. If a 24fps version of whatever crap thing you’re watching, bummer. Not their fault. Lack of people understand tech is at fault. You all should relate.

Watching in 60p isn’t bad. It’s a pull down. Actually helps smooth things out while still getting the 24fps movieness.

and no Fing frame blending. That’s the worst possible thing you should ever do. And so what if it drops a frame every 40s. Would you rather have audio out of sync or audio that was degraded and pitch shifted? Those are your choices. Or buy a 10k pro broadcast monitor.

also. If you’re not looking at the original format like the uncompressed dpx files or openexr files then you’re already losing so much detail.

and most likely you’re watching some crap version you torrented that was encoded with VFR (handbrake does this by default for some unknown reason).

just. Be quiet. Unless you have a scope you’re connecting the ATV to and real test patterns at all frame rates.

bah!

Oh and you 50hz blokes... watching content that’s 25 in 30 or 60 is fine. Looks like 24. Adding frames is easy, taking frames out of content, say going from 59.94 to 25 or 29.97 to 25 is very hard to do without it looking horrid. One box does a decent job at it. The alchemist. About 100k. 150 with options. And don’t forget about the audio you have to mess with. When I have to mix 25fps things with 24fps projects, it can be annoying. Tell your people to just start shooting things 24. Especially films. I can’t tell you how many films I’ve received while helping out festivals, that were 25. 🤦‍♂️ And of course they won’t look right at 24 but they have to be projected at 24 because all the venues only have DCP players that will do 24 or every dumb big post production place in LA only knows how to make 24fps DCPs. Arggggggg.
 
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andrewstirling

macrumors 6502
May 19, 2015
383
154
Absolutely! Irrespective of whether content producers should or shouldn’t produce pure 24p content, the fact is that there is an increasing amount of pure 24p content and the Apple TV can’t handle it. Take the new breaking bad movie on Netflix for example. It frameskips throughout when played on the Apple TV. It’s perfect when played from my tv app.
 

xsmett

macrumors regular
Nov 1, 2015
137
77
There really have been a lot of 24p Content on Netflix lately. For those videos I switch to my Samsung UHD Player which can handle 24p and 23,976p without any problems. Really wish Apple will fix this problem. Maybe it helps to report this to Apple. I did.

 

colinw123

macrumors member
Jan 21, 2013
75
10
There really have been a lot of 24p Content on Netflix lately. For those videos I switch to my Samsung UHD Player which can handle 24p and 23,976p without any problems. Really wish Apple will fix this problem. Maybe it helps to report this to Apple. I did.

Can I ask what model of Samsung UHD player you have please, I might go down this route as well for both 24p and 23.976p, thanks.
 

bobof

macrumors newbie
Dec 1, 2019
4
7
so. AppleTV is displaying content fine. If a 24fps version of whatever crap thing you’re watching, bummer. Not their fault. Lack of people understand tech is at fault. You all should relate.
....
just. Be quiet. Unless you have a scope you’re connecting the ATV to and real test patterns at all frame rates.
Well, that Apple themselves support 24.0p and 23.976p in the HLS specification, that display manufacturers accept 24.0p input and display correctly, and that a host of other players are able to stream and play back this content correctly at 24.0p should tell you all you need to know about which fruity company's product is deficient here.

BTW I do have an Astro Designs HDMI protocol analyzer hooked up. If you'd like to see some test patterns Netflix have helpfully bundled a set (imaginatively titled "Test Patterns" - search for it from the UI). There you will find 23.976, 24, 25, 29.97, 30, 50, 59.94 and 60p test streams. The 24, 30 and 60p streams don't play back correctly on the Apple TV 4k, and play at the nearest fractional rate instead of the true matching integer rate.

Can I ask what model of Samsung UHD player you have please, I might go down this route as well for both 24p and 23.976p, thanks.
The Sony UHD players can also do this for 24.0p (you have to enable an option in the menus for streaming 24p support), but note they play 25p and 60p both at 59.94p. 25p looks quite tragic at 59.94p, so Sony aren't exactly covering themselves in glory there either.

The Samsung UHD players seem to have the best automatic implementation for any device for Netflix, with all rates automatically played back at correct framerate, albeit there is some odd wrapping of SDR in a REC2020 container which I've not been able to figure out (seems to be triggered on loading the Netflix app). I'm using a slightly newer player - a Samsung M9000. Note that you will lose Atmos playback though - if that matters to you. Shame they're obsolete & discontinued!

What a world we live in where something as simple as playing back all the frames of video in a stream at the right time is so difficult...
 
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bobof

macrumors newbie
Dec 1, 2019
4
7
The problem is that HDMI doesn't actually support true 24Hz, only 23.97Hz. It doesn't support true 60Hz either, hilariously enough. 24Hz/60Hz is just shorthand for the NTSC definitions of 23.97 and 29.97 frames per second (*2 to get the field rate of 29.97 = 59.94Hz).
I'm guessing a new Apple TV 4K will be coming this year sporting HDMI 2.1 with Variable Refresh Rate support (can output any frame rate), Quick Media Syncing (no blank screens when changing resolution/refresh rate) and Auto-Low Latency to automatically switch TVs into game mode. Probably an A12X chip too to give 'XBox One S' power. Of course, most of these features will only work with compatible TVs and I'm not aware of any TV that supports VRR, QMD and ALL (some 2018 Samsungs do VRR and ALL I believe).
Nothing to do with HDMI2.1 or VRR; and HDMI certainly does support 23.976 and 24.0p going WAY back.

Here is a copy and paste out of the HDMI Specification 1.4. There are many references to 23.976 (aka 23.98) and 24. See the specifics of the pixel rates in MHz and the vertical rate in Hz.

24vs23976.png

24vs23976_2.png
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Original poster
Sep 21, 2010
9,511
6,700
Yep. This is 100% on Apple. They just need to enable 24.000hz on the Apple TV. Can not believe they haven’t done it yet.

Wish someone would edit the thread title since it’s just misleading/false. It’s not fixed.
I'm happy to change it. What do you suggest? Quote me in the reply so I get notification--I don't normally come back to this thread.
 

KBJ55

macrumors newbie
Sep 22, 2017
7
3
I'm happy to change it. What do you suggest? Quote me in the reply so I get notification--I don't normally come back to this thread.
My suggestion would be to drop the (Correction - it does now) part as it definitely does not support true 24.0 fps playback. I would also make clear in the title, somehow without getting too wordy, that we're talking about true 24.0 fps content and not the more common 23.967 fps.
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Original poster
Sep 21, 2010
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Alright, if this problem IS fixed some day, then the title would have been wrong again. So I sort of made the title more generic.
 

WilliamG

macrumors G3
Mar 29, 2008
9,041
2,430
Seattle
Alright, if this problem IS fixed some day, then the title would have been wrong again. So I sort of made the title more generic.
Ugh. Well, now it implies...nothing. I think many us of would be happy if it was what we wanted I.e. “Apple TV 4K does not support 24.000hz playback,” and then someday IF Apple fixes it - we could get a mod to change the thread heading. Currently it doesn’t say anything at all, and quite frankly it’s a nonsensical heading.
 
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KBJ55

macrumors newbie
Sep 22, 2017
7
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Agree with WilliamG, that change doesn't say anything at all and makes no sense.
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Original poster
Sep 21, 2010
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It seems to me this thread is about a LOT things, not just the thing you want it to convey. But my level of caring about this is close to zero. Write the title as you desire it, and I will quote it exactly.
 

WilliamG

macrumors G3
Mar 29, 2008
9,041
2,430
Seattle
It seems to me this thread is about a LOT things, not just the thing you want it to convey. But my level of caring about this is close to zero. Write the title as you desire it, and I will quote it exactly.
The very first post in this thread is about this very thing, so I’m not sure what you mean? In any case, I think this would state the issue plainly and simply, but if others have any opinions...

“Apple TV 4K does not support 24.000fps playback.”