Apple TV 4K Listing Appears on Amazon as Prime Video Launch Nears

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Let me rephrase the dialogue:

Apple: “we have these devices that are perfect for your prime app”

Amazon: “no thanks, too lazy to develop the app. And because we don’t have the app, we don’t want to sell your product as it doesn’t benefit us.”

Apple: “...”

Yes, almost certainly Apple is the saint and anyone else is the devil. In some other universe it might have gone like this:

Amazon: "To make the Prime app available on AppleTV, we want the same special financial deal you gave Netflix, rather than pay the full amount right off the top"

Apple: "No, we like our fatter margins, even if you would be storing & streaming all the content that might be purchased through your app from your own infrastructure."

Amazon: "When you give us the same deal you've given Netflix, we'll be interested. In the meantime, since you are not willing to compromise on a mutual win:win, we'll stop selling your AppleTV too."

Apple starts developing a 4KTV while others are already long-since there. Those others also have mostly the same apps as Apple PLUS Amazon Prime. Apple wants to launch with as much 4K content as possible. Someone internally decides to grant Amazon the same special deal in exchange for some Amazon concessions like selling the product on Amazon.com again. Amazon accepts and starts developing the app.

Apple at WWDC announces the Amazon Prime app coming soon.

Amazon develops the app, re-lists AppleTV in the store and then launches Amazon Prime.

Apple is more competitive with other 4K boxes by adding the Prime app and Prime 4K content. Apple still gets a pretty lucrative cut of Prime revenue and realizes sales of AppleTVs through the Amazon store. Amazon gets exposure to millions of new prospective Prime subscribers and gets to actually make some added profit (per the special deal) rather than give that extra to Apple. Consumers can get the last major missing streaming service from their preferred STB device. Win:win:win.

Now, your scenario could be correct and mine could be wrong, but I generally think about it in a "follow the money" way. Your scenario has Amazon being too lazy to profit on some segment of millions of AppleTV owners and refusing the retailer profit on selling AppleTVs in their store to boot. I'll concede that Amazon could be "lazy"... or evil... even at their own profit expense. But I'd bet my scenario is much more likely than yours (even if it fails to cast Apple in a purely saintly vision).

 

[obiwan]

Let me rephrase the dialogue:

Apple: “we have these devices that are perfect for your prime app”

Amazon: “no thanks, too lazy to develop the app. And because we don’t have the app, we don’t want to sell your product as it doesn’t benefit us.”

Apple: “...”

I thought it was more a case of Amazon wanting to sell their own content through the Amazon Prime store, so don't want to sell a device (AppleTV) that will enable consumers to buy their media content elsewhere.

 

[NinjaHERO]

No Amazon prime was the primary reason I own a Roku and not an AppleTV.

 

[powaking]

Only thing I have hopeful for the ATV3 is if someone is able to get Kodi to run on it. Otherwise its about as basic of a video player as one can be.

 

[hinesmj]

This has probably already been answered in another ATV/Prime thread, but I'm still wondering, well, hoping for the best, expecting the worst...

Does anyone know if the Prime app will appear on ATV3s? I love my ATV3s, but I'd really like the Prime app too.

I think they said at WWDC that it would roll out to all models...

 

[Yonizzle]

Yes, almost certainly Apple is the saint and anyone else is the devil. In some other universe it might have gone like this:

Amazon: "To make the Prime app available on AppleTV, we want the same special financial deal you gave Netflix, rather than pay the full amount right off the top"

Apple: "No, we like our fatter margins, even if you would be storing & streaming all the content that might be purchased through your app from your own infrastructure."

Amazon: "When you give us the same deal you've given Netflix, we'll be interested. In the meantime, since you are not willing to compromise on a mutual win:win, we'll stop selling your AppleTV too."

Apple starts developing a 4KTV while others are already long-since there. Those others also have mostly the same apps as Apple PLUS Amazon Prime. Apple wants to launch with as much 4K content as possible. Someone internally decides to grant Amazon the same special deal in exchange for some Amazon concessions like selling the product on Amazon.com again. Amazon accepts and starts developing the app.

Apple at WWDC announces the Amazon Prime app coming soon.

Amazon develops the app, re-lists AppleTV in the store and then launches Amazon Prime.

Apple is more competitive with other 4K boxes by adding the Prime app and Prime 4K content. Apple still gets a pretty lucrative cut of Prime revenue and realizes sales of AppleTVs through the Amazon store. Amazon gets exposure to millions of new prospective Prime subscribers and gets to actually make some added profit (per the special deal) rather than give that extra to Apple. Consumers can get the last major missing streaming service from their preferred STB device. Win:win:win.

Now, your scenario could be correct and mine could be wrong, but I generally think about it in a "follow the money" way. Your scenario has Amazon being too lazy to profit on some segment of millions of AppleTV owners and refusing the retailer profit on selling AppleTVs in their store to boot. I'll concede that Amazon could be "lazy"... or evil... even at their own profit expense. But I'd bet my scenario is much more likely than yours (even if it fails to cast Apple in a purely saintly vision).

Is there any confirmation that you’ll be allowed to rent/purchase movies through the Amazon Video app? I’ve been assuming no, but that would make the whole delay pretty weird.

As it stands now, on their iOS app (and the Xbox version last time I checked), you can only watch videos that don’t require a purhase. That is, “included with Prime” ones, or things you’ve purchased/rented on the web. Presumably this is for the reasons you mentioned: Amazon’s providing the infrastructure to store and stream these and has their own payment system in place, so they don’t see enough value in what Apple provides via IAP to pay the percentage. Even if they get to 15% right away, that may completely ruin their margins.

Vudu just showed up on the Apple TV after being on iOS for a long time, and it has the same deal. They don’t use Apple’s In-App Purchase system, so if you want to buy/rent, you have to do it on the web. This coincidence makes it seem more likely to me that Apple was the holdup. That is, on iOS they required a cut of IAP revenue, but if a content provider wanted to make users have to open a browser to circumvent that, it was ok. But maybe they refused to allow this on Apple TV until now (especially since there’s no browser on the device)?

Have there been other apps that have a la carte purchases that you can’t do on device before now?

 

[npmacuser5]

Let me rephrase the dialogue:

Apple: “we have these devices that are perfect for your prime app”

Amazon: “no thanks, too lazy to develop the app. And because we don’t have the app, we don’t want to sell your product as it doesn’t benefit us.”

Apple: “...”

Apple...we only want 30% of your profits, and we will never put our apps or content on your lousy Fire TV's. How about it Amazon?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Apple...we only want 30% of your profits OFF THE TOP, and we will never put our apps or content on your lousy Fire TV's. How about it Amazon?

That's almost it. You forgot to slug in the part I added.

And is Apple's deal profits or revenues? I believe it's 30% of the revenues right off the top, which can be much greater than 30% of profits:

• If profits, that still leaves 70% of the profits for an entity like Amazon.
• If revenues, that could be up to ALL of the available profit or even MORE than the profit, leaving an entity like Amazon NOTHING... or even a loss on each transaction.

 

[tonyr6]

Come on already I want to get rid of my slow ad ridden 2nd gen FTV box and stick now.

Also the fact that the Apple TV Amazon video app will only have your purchased content, rip off add-on channels but anything on Prime you can watch no wow look at this recommended TV show wait it is a rip off $2.99 a episode.

 

[ignatius345]

Great -- can't wait to stop streaming Amazon through the god-awful PS4 interface.

 

[checker2010]

Apple and Amazon are friends again.

amazon "if you allow alexa on the amazon iOS Music app and amazon Prime on appleTV we will start selling appleTVs again"

apple "Yeh, okay!"

Synergy

LOL. There’s been third party Alexa apps in the App Store for a while. I doubt there had to be any agreement for an Amazon app to be approved. Amazon just couldn’t be bothered to make one for a competing platform.

 

[cliffster82]

That's almost it. You forgot to slug in the part I added.

And is Apple's deal profits or revenues? I believe it's 30% of the revenues right off the top, which can be much greater than 30% of profits:

• If profits, that still leaves 70% of the profits for an entity like Amazon.
• If revenues, that could be up to ALL of the available profit or even MORE than the profit, leaving an entity like Amazon NOTHING... or even a loss on each transaction.

I'm pretty sure (not 100% but pretty sure) that Amazon can't sell anything in its app on the ATV. This would be a moot point. ATV is just a vehicle to watch Prime stuff. Customers rent/buy videos on Amazon's website. It's a win for Amazon, I think, since lots of people own ATVs, so their app is about to get a boost of exposure.

 

[checker2010]

This has probably already been answered in another ATV/Prime thread, but I'm still wondering, well, hoping for the best, expecting the worst...

Does anyone know if the Prime app will appear on ATV3s? I love my ATV3s, but I'd really like the Prime app too.

I expect it to be only an app on the App Store for the 4th & 5th gen Apple TV boxes.

 

[deany]

LOL. There’s been third party Alexa apps in the App Store for a while. I doubt there had to be any agreement for an Amazon app to be approved. Amazon just couldn’t be bothered to make one for a competing platform.

I'm not sure whether the 3rd party apps give "full blown'' alexa functionality.
Have you tried the new amazon music iOS app https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/26/amazon-music-app-alexa-integration/ ? its like a dot/echo on your iPhone.

 

[George Dawes]

i hope the fan's not noisy

 

[ThatGuyInLa]

Now to get Apple to fix the lack of auto switching screen mode based on content source. It’s superbly frustrating.

 

[BeefCake 15]

If you order today, it'll arrive by Thursday in-time to watch the game on Amazon Prime streaming

 

[star-affinity]

Good news. Too bad I'm going to have to continue the inconvenient process of manually switching between 4K HDR and 1080p SDR, in order to keep from getting fake HDR and poor upscaling applied to most of the Prime catalogue of offerings.

I just learnt what you're talking about from this article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnar...tv-4k-review-13-reasons-you-shouldnt-buy-one/

Sad. Hope future software updates changes that.

 

[macTW]

Yes, almost certainly Apple is the saint and anyone else is the devil. In some other universe it might have gone like this:

Amazon: "To make the Prime app available on AppleTV, we want the same special financial deal you gave Netflix, rather than pay the full amount right off the top"

Apple: "No, we like our fatter margins, even if you would be storing & streaming all the content that might be purchased through your app from your own infrastructure."

Amazon: "When you give us the same deal you've given Netflix, we'll be interested. In the meantime, since you are not willing to compromise on a mutual win:win, we'll stop selling your AppleTV too."

Apple starts developing a 4KTV while others are already long-since there. Those others also have mostly the same apps as Apple PLUS Amazon Prime. Apple wants to launch with as much 4K content as possible. Someone internally decides to grant Amazon the same special deal in exchange for some Amazon concessions like selling the product on Amazon.com again. Amazon accepts and starts developing the app.

Apple at WWDC announces the Amazon Prime app coming soon.

Amazon develops the app, re-lists AppleTV in the store and then launches Amazon Prime.

Apple is more competitive with other 4K boxes by adding the Prime app and Prime 4K content. Apple still gets a pretty lucrative cut of Prime revenue and realizes sales of AppleTVs through the Amazon store. Amazon gets exposure to millions of new prospective Prime subscribers and gets to actually make some added profit (per the special deal) rather than give that extra to Apple. Consumers can get the last major missing streaming service from their preferred STB device. Win:win:win.

Now, your scenario could be correct and mine could be wrong, but I generally think about it in a "follow the money" way. Your scenario has Amazon being too lazy to profit on some segment of millions of AppleTV owners and refusing the retailer profit on selling AppleTVs in their store to boot. I'll concede that Amazon could be "lazy"... or evil... even at their own profit expense. But I'd bet my scenario is much more likely than yours (even if it fails to cast Apple in a purely saintly vision).

Writing lazy was more of a joke. It is on amazon though, not Apple. Likely they wanted to develop their own or thought they should get more money from Apple for their inferior product (in terms of Apple-seen value).
[doublepost=1506444318][/doublepost]

I thought it was more a case of Amazon wanting to sell their own content through the Amazon Prime store, so don't want to sell a device (AppleTV) that will enable consumers to buy their media content elsewhere.

Writing lazy was more of a joke on my part. I think it was more a combination of what you said plus amazon wanting a Netflix-style deal with Apple for an inferior product (in terms of customer usage rates).

 

[kenny2]

I can't wait to see what terrible new innovations they've brought to what is surely to be the worst imaginable version of the Amazon Prime Video app!

Can’t be any worse than the one on the PS3.
That is horrendous to navigate around.

 

[obiwan]

Great -- can't wait to stop streaming Amazon through the god-awful PS4 interface.

Yeah, there is that. It also has BBC iPlayer unlike my AppleTV 3rd Gen (a big deal for TV Viewing in the UK). I'm pretty sure I will upgrade to the 4K AppleTV, but I'll probably wait until Amazon Prime is available, and there is more news on whether the YouTube app will be updated to support 4K.

 

[Mac 128]

ATV3 is discontinued. There will likely never be any more apps for it or even updates.

But if there's a huge install base, there's nothing preventing anyone from adding apps to the ATV 3 feed, right? I feel like new apps have become available on ATV 3 since Apple dropped it, though I wasn't paying that much attention.

For Apple, there's every reason to stop supporting it and force upgrades to get the Amazon Prime. For Amazon, there's none really. The only thing they lose is a greater drawn on 4K bandwidth from their servers. Otherwise, it opens up Prime to all of their customers, an app which Amazon supports on all kinds of platforms, so what's one more, unless Apple refuses to upload it to the ATV 3 feed?

 

[Tarheels23]

Good news. Too bad I'm going to have to continue the inconvenient process of manually switching between 4K HDR and 1080p SDR, in order to keep from getting fake HDR and poor upscaling applied to most of the Prime catalogue of offerings.

What model display do you have? Are you saying the Apple TV doesn't upscale from 1080p to 4k that good?

 

[Mac 128]

What model display do you have? Are you saying the Apple TV doesn't upscale from 1080p to 4k that good?

I have a Sony 65X900E. Best upscaler I've ever seen. ATV is not as good in direct comparison. But it's not just the upscaling. I still have to switch into 4K HDR from 4K SDR, or the Apple TV will apply fake HDR to the upscaled 1080p picture, as well as any other non-HDR signal. Very little 1080p content is in HDR, and not that much 4K at present either. And by forcing my ATV to accept 4K settings, it bypasses other signal processing the Sony TV does when upscaling 1080p signals.

 

[mooeymoose]

Only thing I have hopeful for the ATV3 is if someone is able to get Kodi to run on it. Otherwise its about as basic of a video player as one can be.

I feel the 4 with the apps is so much more useful then a 3. Not sure what a 3 gets you that is not on the 4. I did side load kodi to the 4 and it worked fine however when you side load an app you need to keep "re-signing" it every week or so now and it is not worth the hassel.

I bought a fire TV for kodi and switch to it once in a while. Whole house is just used to the apple TV and the remote is so much better then fire TV( Just having the volume is huge) that the apple TV is used 98% of the time.