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Apple TV 4K Reviews: Expensive But With Cheaper 4K Movies, Some Limitations Like 1080p YouTube
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Non 4K content on an Apple TV 4k won't look the same as on a regular Apple TV because the 4k version adds fake HDR to non-HDR sources. This will look ok or terrible depending on the source, but it's always wrong because the non-4k source wasn't mastered for HDR.
Not to mention that there is no current standard for fully calibrating HDR modes and it works to a different gamma. So for people who have their TVs calibrated they need to make do with a completely inaccurate picture. I’m actually more inclined to believe the reviews have got this wrong. I cannot believe any manufacturer would make this decision.
I didn't say it did, I was writing about 4k support and someone suggesting it's a YouTube limitation that the Apple TV doesn't do it. It's an Apple TV limitation.
Shield supports HDR and from what I've been reading, YouTube HDR support is in the works.
More importantly, the Shield supports Amazon Prime Video, works fine on it, in 4k with HDR.
YouTube HDR is not in the works for any current shield hardware. It’s impossible for it to be added at this stage. As it is for the Apple TV. The shield is one of the worst devices I’ve ever owned if I’m being honest. But I’d still rank it far higher than the new Apple TV
For movies the standard is 24fps and 180 degree shutter. Upping th refresh rate for displays in general is beneficial, but for movies i believe it would be best to keep 24fps. I agree with what you have to say that resolution is not the only important characteristic. I was directly responding to his comment about 4k resolution. You are corrext about our visual acuity and that is why i said 8k would be the point at which it doesnt matter
If your Pioneer receiver accommodates 4K pass though, then that is the perfect option. That's what I also did with my non-4k apple TVs.
However, if your receiver is a little older, and supports less than hdmi 2.0, then your receiver will only pass 1080p (or less) on through to your TV - so that's defeating many of the advantages of a 4K apple TV.
I love mine, we use it all the time, I think it's one of the best devices we bought. It's fast, works flawlessly for Netflix/Prime/Crunchyroll/etc. I stream PC games on it too, it's great for newer titles that have controller support. Feels like having a much more capable PlayStation (I have an 1080Ti on the PC) with better graphics and cheaper games.
I think you might be wrong about YouTube HDR, you just make some assertions there, but in any case YouTube HDR is the least of my worries - HDR is worth it for movies and we have never watched a movie on YouTube. I'm not even aware of movies, HDR or not, on YouTube. In fact, while we've seen the occasional short clip, I cannot think of any instance of us sitting down in front of the TV to watch YouTube for the evening. So, non-issue.
Yeah. Lack of YouTube support is a non event for me too. The reason I’ve fallen out with my shield tv is that refresh rate switching is fairly patchy and it simply won’t auto switch screen resolution. If you set it to 4k it does a horrendous job of upscaling 1080p content so I constantly need to switch back and forward depending on what I’m watching. It also doesn’t support Netflix at 24fps so it’s not as good as my in built tv app.
I’ve just ordered a Vero 4k to replace the shield. I had hoped to replace it with an Apple TV 4k but the design decisions by Apple have destroyed that particular plan!
I’m thinking you mean pass through period. What would prevent pass through of 4K?
An incompatible amp? Sorry...don’t mean to be a smart arse but only the newest amps can pass through 4k with HDR. My guess is it will need to support HDCP 2.2 in order to pass through films from the Apple TV as they’ll be copy protected
You've got to check you Pioneer's specs, or even name:
For example - if you have this one: Pioneer - 5.1-Ch. 4K Ultra HD A/V Home Theater Receiver, you'd be good. That box would handle 4K.
Older AV receivers wouldn't handle 4K because the HDMI stands they were built to (at that time) were never written to handle that much data. The apple 4TV would sense that av receiver limitation - and keep everything working by send such an AV receiver something less than 4k. That in turn, would mean your Television would get something less than 4K.
I think most Pioneer receivers are relatively modest in price. Upgrading your receiver and getting a host of additional features along the way is probably a better option than the $150 a capable splinter would cost.
Other folks have hdmi1.3 av receivers that cost $2K or more. In those cases, replacing with a comparable receiver would cost another $2K - so the splitter buys that crowd more time out of their original hardware.
pm me with your receiver model number if you want and I can answer your questions with specifics...
swingerofbirch
macrumors 68040
I'm not sure what the Samsung software is called, but it's been an upgrade for me over my third generation Apple TV. You can browse the media offerings of various apps without leaving what you're watching, and live TV from antenna/cable/satellite is just another app. It's very intuitive to me.
Also, if you connect a 4K box like the Apple TV, there are certain settings you need to get right to get 4K and HDR and make sure you have the right cables, etc. That's not a problem per se, but it's less of an "Apple" solution than the all-in-one package that a 4K HDR television offers out of the box. I never found the Apple TV to be particularly intuitive, especially with text input. I know the Apple TV now has voice control, which is something I like on the Samsung TV.
I think web OS is pretty good if I’m being honest. Regardless however, I do think interface is far less important on a smart tv than it is on a phone....mainly due to the percentage time using it. In most cases on a phone, you use apps for a brief time and you spend a lot of time navigating between them or even interacting between them. Here a good interface is vital and a consistent design language significantly helps the core experience.
Considering a tv platform, in most cases people use it briefly to navigate to what they want to watch and then spend a huge percentage of time watching the actual content. The problem I have with apples design choices is that it makes the content watching extremely poor in comparison to the competition. In Netflix, for example, I’d be watching programmes poorly upscaled, at the incorrect framerate and with fake HDR conversion going on. On my LG oled tv, the programme will have none of these issues. This clearly overshadows the few seconds I’d spend using Apple TVs slick interface. Especially when you consider that the Netflix app interface is identical between the two platforms. I’d literally spend 2 seconds selecting the Netflix icon before my interface experience reached parity with the Apple TV!
Of course I could fix the framerate and fake HDR conversion by manually selecting the video mode before selecting Netflix but surely this is an unnecessary step which takes away from the functionality of the interface. Furthermore, my understanding is that I can’t select 1080p at 24fps so I have a choice between horrendous upscaling or incorrect framerate.
Also, I know I’ve focussed on Netflix here but you could extend that to most other apps. The inbuilt movie app on the Apple TV, for example, is hardly an example of a great interface. It focuses on films it can sell you ahead of films you own. It is time consuming to navigate large collections. It doesn’t show trailers for films in your collection. It doesn’t give you the option of grouping movies into collections and it frequently sorts titles incorrectly and gives you no option to override these errors. Compare this with plex for example, or a properly skinned kodi and there really is no comparison.
Put simply, I cannot justify purchasing something which gives me a slicker menu which I’d use for a matter of seconds, when the content I’ll spend the vast majority of time watching looks far worse. Essentially I’d be purchasing something which is worse than what I already own.
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I feel the same, I think ATV 4K and Infuse will replace my power sucking HTPC and Kodi, especially when Atmos is enabled (hopefully in the future......)
I agree. Even if Apple enable quick picture Format changing with Siri, I'd be OK with it. But even that assumes I know what my picture source is. As it is, I have to know, and then dig down through he settings menu and navigate to the proper setting for the movie. It's just pointless and unnecessary.
I doubt Apple is going to fix this, and either way if they don't fix it by the end of my return period, it's going back. I'd rather stick with 1080p upscaling on my TV, which is far superior, and do without 4K HDR on my Apple library, while using the sluggish, built-in 4K HDR Android apps.
Has some advantages and some disadvantages.
To which AppleTV are you comparing it in terms of speed, etc.? How much did you pay for it? It seems from all the benchmarks I can find that the A10X is quite a bit faster than the Tegra X1 in the Shield TV. The version that they sell for the same price as the Apple TV 4K has 16GB and no game pad. From their specs, it does not seem that they support DolbyVision.
I am not sure what kind of applications you want, but I have seen quite a few interesting new games and fitness apps, including many that are exclusive to the platform.
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Based on what do you say it is impossible to add it to the new AppleTV? Nothing prevents Google from producing a YouTube app that includes a VP9 codec.
What makes it one of the worst devices you have owned? What makes it better than the AppleTV 4K?
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Roku Ultra does not support Dolby Vision, and is just over half the price of an AppleTV. It has some options that the AppleTV 4K does not, but lacks many features and applications available on the AppleTV 4K (chief among them access to iTunes content). While I expect VuDu to lower their 4K content price at some point, they have not yet done so. They may also upgrade all purchased content to 4K/HDR as it becomes available, but to date, they have not even offered the option to pay to upgrade that content. The same is true for all the other UltraViolet retailers.
Answer to the first part of your question...the shield TV doesn’t auto switch resolution and the in built scaler is horrendous. It is supposed to auto switch refresh rates but it doesn’t work consistently and when it fails to switch refresh rates it needs a reboot before it starts working again otherwise you’re stuck at 60hz. When you manually switch video mode, it defaults to an incorrect colourspace and you need to manually change this. It also plays Netflix at 60hz whereas my in built tv app plays at the correct native refresh rate depending on content. I don’t think any of this is forgivable on a media player.
In answer to your second question. Pretty much all of the above also applies to the Apple TV 4k (awful scaler, no resolution switching etc). Add to that, the Apple TV’s conversion of SDR material to HDR (utterly stunned at this!), its failure to auto switch refresh rate at all, its inability to bitstream DTS and its inability to bitstream Dolby True HD, DTS Master HD and Dolby Atmos. The shield TV can at least manage all of that.
I’m struggling to understand why these tech companies keep getting it wrong. I kind of just want my streaming boxes to do what my Blu Ray or Ultra HD player does only with streamed material rather than physical discs. Maybe we need Panasonic or Onkyo to create a device rather than Nvidia or Apple.
I’ve actually ordered a Vero 4k which apparently manages to avoid all the faults I’ve listed. It should arrive next week so I’ll see what it’s like then. Fingers crossed!
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You've got to check you Pioneer's specs, or even name:
For example - if you have this one: Pioneer - 5.1-Ch. 4K Ultra HD A/V Home Theater Receiver, you'd be good. That box would handle 4K.
Older AV receivers wouldn't handle 4K because the HDMI stands they were built to (at that time) were never written to handle that much data. The apple 4TV would sense that av receiver limitation - and keep everything working by send such an AV receiver something less than 4k. That in turn, would mean your Television would get something less than 4K.
I think most Pioneer receivers are relatively modest in price. Upgrading your receiver and getting a host of additional features along the way is probably a better option than the $150 a capable splinter would cost.
Other folks have hdmi1.3 av receivers that cost $2K or more. In those cases, replacing with a comparable receiver would cost another $2K - so the splitter buys that crowd more time out of their original hardware.
pm me with your receiver model number if you want and I can answer your questions with specifics...
Cool! Thanks for the valuable info! Two questions — One ... can’t I just set it to “pass through “ the receiver unprocessed to my in this case projector? Second - what about going directly to projector and bypassing receiver except for sound?
No unfortunately you can’t just set to pass through. Part of the problem is the copy protection which requires all HDMI ports carrying the signal to be HDCP 2.2 compliant. The media won’t get through without your amp being able to cope with this. And unless you bought your amp within the past couple of years, it will pre-date HDCP 2.2
Regarding the bypassing of the receiver except for sound, I don’t see how you can do this. Most ultra HD players have dual HDMI outputs for this purpose. One carries the sound to the receiver, the other carries the picture. Unfortunately the Apple TV only has one output.
I got my Apple TV 4K on Friday and besides the lack of automatic/dynamic output switching it has been great. The fact that I own a LG OLED B6-series which only supports 4K Dolby Vision at 30Hz is causing some awkwardness..
The UI is obviously meant for 50/60Hz. It feels much more sluggish at 30Hz. And by not having any kind of dynamic switching I'm forced to have YouTube videos (most of those I view are 60Hz, which looks much better compared to 30Hz) playing at 30Hz. The only way to avoid this is to run the out as 4K HDR10 60Hz or 4K non-HDR 60Hz and manually switch every time I'm going to play some Dolby Vision content.
Some good news on the other hand is the fact that Infuse Pro can do local playback of "Good Game Episode 5" which is a YouTube Red series that I have stored locally in 4K and it's encoded using Google's VP9 codec. So just like ProTube on iOS it seems like Infuse Pro on tvOS have no issues with adding software decoding of the VP9 codec and it plays without any hiccups. As Infuse have no transcoding capabilities whatsoever it has to have some kind of VP9 decoder within the app, otherwise playback wouldn't be possible. Just like I'm still able to playback 4K content on YouTube on my iPad Pro using ProTube.
This comes as no surprise to be honest. All kinds of software has always been able to add software decoding of various codecs. Just like Windows 10 itself barely supports any kind of video or audio codecs natively you are still able to have tons of apps supporting all kinds of codecs. And just like iOS does not support playback of codecs like Opus, Flac (until iOS 11) we have still had various applications on iOS fully capable of playing back these codecs. Apps like Mumble are even doing recording and encoding it using Opus.
The only question remaining is whether or not Google is going to update their YouTube-app with support for decoding VP9 so we get 4K playback.
The UI is obviously meant for 50/60Hz. It feels much more sluggish at 30Hz. And by not having any kind of dynamic switching I'm forced to have YouTube videos (most of those I view are 60Hz, which looks much better compared to 30Hz) playing at 30Hz. The only way to avoid this is to run the out as 4K HDR10 60Hz or 4K non-HDR 60Hz and manually switch every time I'm going to play some Dolby Vision content.
Some good news on the other hand is the fact that Infuse Pro can do local playback of "Good Game Episode 5" which is a YouTube Red series that I have stored locally in 4K and it's encoded using Google's VP9 codec. So just like ProTube on iOS it seems like Infuse Pro on tvOS have no issues with adding software decoding of the VP9 codec and it plays without any hiccups. As Infuse have no transcoding capabilities whatsoever it has to have some kind of VP9 decoder within the app, otherwise playback wouldn't be possible. Just like I'm still able to playback 4K content on YouTube on my iPad Pro using ProTube.
This comes as no surprise to be honest. All kinds of software has always been able to add software decoding of various codecs. Just like Windows 10 itself barely supports any kind of video or audio codecs natively you are still able to have tons of apps supporting all kinds of codecs. And just like iOS does not support playback of codecs like Opus, Flac (until iOS 11) we have still had various applications on iOS fully capable of playing back these codecs. Apps like Mumble are even doing recording and encoding it using Opus.
The only question remaining is whether or not Google is going to update their YouTube-app with support for decoding VP9 so we get 4K playback.
I'm not positive about your first question - Does the Av receiver pass through HDMI through even when it is off? It it is powered off, I'm not sure what happens. But I'm pretty sure that when a hdmi 1.3 receiver is on, it will tell apple TV to send it a hdmi 1.3 signal - the only one it can use - and so there pass though will also be 1.3 - which is not 4K.