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Apple TV 4K Reviews: Expensive But With Cheaper 4K Movies, Some Limitations Like 1080p YouTube
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Can someone explain to me why you'd buy this rather than a small form factor HTPC?
Just recently got into digital movies and converted all of my blu rays and started buying movies from iTunes. Seems like to me a HTPC like an Intel NUC would be a better buy than this, but I'm not entirely informed on what this Apple TV is capable of
Just recently got into digital movies and converted all of my blu rays and started buying movies from iTunes. Seems like to me a HTPC like an Intel NUC would be a better buy than this, but I'm not entirely informed on what this Apple TV is capable of
Just a quick word of warning to anyone "picky" about their video-quality: Avoid any piece of equipment that automatically processes anything and lacks the ability to turn that processing off. That bit about the ATV4K "automatically upscaling all SDR content..." is something to worry about. Make sure you can turn that OFF before you buy an ATV4K. (There are a plethora of other things to watch-out for when purchasing modern AV equipment - like the so-called "dynamic contrast" that usually just means throbbing the backlighting up and down depending on the scene (try watching Alien on a set that does that, it's torture) - but the golden rule is simply to make sure that each device in your chain has the ability to completely disable every single video (or audio) processing "feature.")
Not necessarily. Google uses the VP9 codec while apple uses HEVC. They might have included hardware decoding if hevc but not vp9. Software decoding might be sluggish.
My Sony x800 UHD player is beautiful and it does not have these limitations even though Sony screwed up and won’t have Dolby Vision in it. Only HDR10.
Is there anyone out there that is actually streaming a true ATMOS stream and full bandwidth 4K? If so please let me know as I would like to buy into it. So far I haven't found anyone that is doing this. Again I am asking not being confrontational.
I would be curious to see what the true install base of ATMOS is? Heck even the guys at hometheaterforum.com or avscience.com seem to be on the bleeding edge of this stuff and well they are a very small group of people given the overall sales of this type of stuff.
While I agree, there will be guys/gals who companies will claim to stream an ATMOS stream, the majority of folks will not be able to take advantage of it. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see, well actually hear it, but I have a feeling it isn't in the masses and those who do have it want to take advantage of it. So I say, the ATV won't be for you. If ATMOS is that important, defiantly get a device that works for you.
Not an excuse but more of an observation, I don't think I have ever seen Apple really lead or leverage niche markets to the masses. I could be wrong but looking over their equipment/computers/products over the last 10 to 20 years, I just don't see it. Of course they were the first to do away with floppy's but that is neither hear nor their.
Honestly, I think this one is less a case of growing up and playing better (regarding HEVC only) and more a case of the royalty situation you mentioned. HEVC Advance initially came out with some pretty steep royalty rates. They've subsequently come down, but it may have been a too little too late scenario.Or they could both grow up and play better together.
I understand your and @69Mustang , viewpoint better now. And have to say it makes sense.
Honestly I wish these two companies played better together. I don’t single handily blame Google. Apple could support VP9 since there is no royalty, but likely will not because it is mainly sponsored by Google (A competitor). Google may not support HVEC because it requires them to pay a royalty, and would support Apple (their competitor), and others.
Too much bad blood between these two companies. Sucks when I run devices and services from both gardens..
Denon has their 2016 models on close out. You might want to look into those. I bought the x4300h for $675 from abt.com. These are normally $1500. Does Dolby Atmos. 11 channel processing with audyssey multieq xt32. Sounds great. You do need a two channel amp if you are going to use all 11
Channels because it has only 9 amp channels.
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There are $500 4k TVs as well and they include HDR. Not Dolby Vision but HDR10.
From The Verge:
"The Apple TV also automatically preferences refresh rate over any other setting: if your TV supports 60Hz HDR10 but only 30Hz Dolby Vision (like 2016 LG OLEDs), the Apple TV will pick HDR10, even though HDR10 looks worse than Dolby Vision. Apple told me that’s because it wants the interface and games to run as smoothly as possible; it’s found that the interface judders at 30Hz. So you’ll get worse HDR but a smoother interface, all because the Apple TV won’t switch modes.
The lack of mode switching also means that Apple’s picking its own video upscaling and processing system over whatever’s in your TV. Your TV just thinks it’s getting 4K HDR video all the time. It won’t know that it’s actually displaying an HD source, and won’t do any of the tricks 4K TVs do to make those sources look better." (emphasis mine)
Whoa, I don't like that one bit. For a $179+ device, the Apple TV should be smarter than that especially if you have it hooked up to a high end AVR or OLED TV. This is pretty much a no-go for me unless Apple changes how this works in a future update to iOS 11. Sorry, but this is bad.
"The Apple TV also automatically preferences refresh rate over any other setting: if your TV supports 60Hz HDR10 but only 30Hz Dolby Vision (like 2016 LG OLEDs), the Apple TV will pick HDR10, even though HDR10 looks worse than Dolby Vision. Apple told me that’s because it wants the interface and games to run as smoothly as possible; it’s found that the interface judders at 30Hz. So you’ll get worse HDR but a smoother interface, all because the Apple TV won’t switch modes.
The lack of mode switching also means that Apple’s picking its own video upscaling and processing system over whatever’s in your TV. Your TV just thinks it’s getting 4K HDR video all the time. It won’t know that it’s actually displaying an HD source, and won’t do any of the tricks 4K TVs do to make those sources look better." (emphasis mine)
Whoa, I don't like that one bit. For a $179+ device, the Apple TV should be smarter than that especially if you have it hooked up to a high end AVR or OLED TV. This is pretty much a no-go for me unless Apple changes how this works in a future update to iOS 11. Sorry, but this is bad.
Youtube is huge and people are going to expect youtube to be in 4K, and if its not, they will return it. Apple will have to support Googles youtube 4k, or else lose mega sales. Even now, Google doesn't really care about the youtube app on AppleTV, its rarely updated and lacks features, whereas youtube app on the iPad is updated every few weeks.
While there are people hell-bent against Apple, I think there are really two categories -- Apple diehards, and everyone else. "non-Apple diehards" will always choose non-Apple.
This line in the Verge review was perplexing to me:
"Apple’s also high on Hulu and DirecTV Now, which integrates live TV into the TV app."
How does Hulu or DirecTV Now "integrate live TV into the TV app"? Is there some sort of "Live" functionality in the TV app that I am not seeing? Or was this just a misstatement on behalf of the reviewer?
"Apple’s also high on Hulu and DirecTV Now, which integrates live TV into the TV app."
How does Hulu or DirecTV Now "integrate live TV into the TV app"? Is there some sort of "Live" functionality in the TV app that I am not seeing? Or was this just a misstatement on behalf of the reviewer?
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
This is the same old kinds of excuses we always make around here. Hop back 2+ weeks and slug in 4K for many of the above references to ATMOS and "we" were posting that in thread after thread why nobody needs 4K. What is the true install base of 4K televisions? Have the "masses" embraced 4K yet? What is the true installed base of people using facial recognition to unlock their mobile devices? So why did Apple develop that technology?
"We" are masters at rationalizing why Apple did not include something (often with this very argument of "Apple builds for the masses") except for when it doesn't go with something Apple had developed (then it's "Apple is leading"). I appreciate that the masses don't have or are not ready for ATMOS (or 4K or facial recognition or wireless charging) but a consumer can want such advances and not be wrong for having such desires.
For a couple of years now, this consumer has WANTED a 4K
TV. And I've taken beatings from the ADF arguing why nobody needs 4K, until the whole internet is upgraded to be able to handle 4K, storage, "the chart", how 4K is just a gimmick, and on and on. That persisted right up to within about a week of Apple rolling out a 4KTV and then... crickets. Where did all those passionate arguments go? Now I see some of the same people in new threads basically sharing their excitement about a 4KTV.So here I am (again) wishing an
TV would have the capabilities for latest & greatest sound akin to the leap made with 4K, Dolby Vision and HDR for picture. And what do I get? Guys arguing why just about nobody needs ATMOS, "the masses", etc.I respect your point as I respected the points of all those who have so passionately argued against a 4K
TV up until this week. But, as a consumer, it doesn't change my wish that this TV had hopped comparatively forward in sound as it did with picture. And just as it having 4K, Vision & HDR doesn't force anything on anyone happy with 1080p and neither Vision nor HDR hardware now, ATMOS being included wouldn't have forced anything on anyone happy with DD 7.1 or 5.1. It simply would have offered "more" for the ears as recent advances in this box offers our eyes.
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Yeah. I've become a lot more patient with age. But I still can't help but think: Where the hell is my iPhone X?? I want it now!!sounds like a plan!
I figure waiting also gives more time for them to work out deals with Disney and for many streaming services to upgrade to 4K. Most sets in the 2019-2020 timeframe will probably be 4K, so prices should drop quite a bit. The way my living room is set up I've got a lot of large windows letting in natural light from multiple sides so I really need something with good contrast, viewing angles and low reflectivity. Though I'm toying around with finishing the rest of my basement to add a movie room. Maybe I could just work on that for the next two years, lol.
I think 1 of these 2 reasons:
a) they are not comfortable building/buying and maintaining their HTPC
b) they want something working out of the box
This is an easy question to answer. The apps built into TVs tend to be slow, crappy UI, and do not get updated often/at all. I know of someone that got a TV a few weeks before Netflix started having profiles. The app on the new Samsung TV was never updated for it. This is just one of many examples.
The ATV4 YouTube app is way too basic, and buggy. The ATV3 version is much, much better imo, although this could be said about almost all of the ATV3 apps.
Apple described the ATV4 to be the revolutionary experience, and I am still waiting for the revolution.
Yea, I feel the same way. Especially since they didn't drop the price on the ATV4. It is like Apple wants the ATV to fail.
I thought the VP9 was the issue with YouTube 4k on the ATV5, so what can be done about this?
Apple needs to bundle Netflix, Hulu, HBO, Showtime etc into the Apple TV. Charge $199 and make us save the 50 subscription charges. Would revolutionize TV. Would immediately make Apple a serious contender in the TV business. And I might actually consider buying the TV - which really is pointless to buy right now.
We don't have 4K TV's and for as little TV as we actually watch, I don't see any reason to upgrade anytime soon.
i'm thinking the software has a setup similar to 'recovery mode' on the computers.
the real question is side loading apps for testing.
Mainly asking for myself haha. So there's nothing that an Apple TV is capable of that I can't do with a NUC? Not interested in Siri and any app I would use on the Apple TV I'm sure there's a desktop version available too. Just want to make sure before I decide
so does Google. which doesn't make it Apple's fault that Google went a different direction. nor does it make it their issue to always acquiesce and support things they don't choose to
This is the same old kinds of excuses we always make around here. Hop back 2+ weeks and slug in 4K for many of the above references to ATMOS and "we" were posting that in thread after thread why nobody needs 4K. What is the true install base of 4K televisions? Have the "masses" embraced 4K yet? What is the true installed base of people using facial recognition to unlock their mobile devices? So why did Apple develop that technology?
"We" are masters at rationalizing why Apple did not include something (often with this very argument of "Apple builds for the masses") except for when it doesn't go with something Apple had developed (then it's "Apple is leading"). I appreciate that the masses don't have or are not ready for ATMOS (or 4K or facial recognition or wireless charging) but a consumer can want such advances and not be wrong for having such desires.
For a couple of years now, this consumer has WANTED a 4K
So here I am (again) wishing an
I respect your point as I respected the points of all those who have so passionately argued against a 4K
No not at all. I wish Apple would have brought in ATMOS. While I can't personally take advantage of it, yet, it would have been nice to when I do add those additional speakers and upgrade my receiver/amp combo to take advantage of it. But again, looking back I haven't seen anything in Apple's play book that has been on the cutting edge with their products. Again correct me if I am wrong, but Apple hasn't really done anything just because. They are the wrong company to look at if that is what you are looking for. Not making an excuse at all. Just trying to explain what I see currently and given the past of the company.
I like 4K and wish there was more content, a lot more. But sadly for me, it isn't coming quick enough and yes I have a tv that is 4K. Hopefully now, meaning in the next few months, we will see it pick up some steam, especially with CES right around the corner. Like I mentioned before, I wish they would support ATMOS, heck they are now just supporting FLAC. Who thought that day would ever come! People have been clamoring for it for quite some time, and it isn't a new!