Apple TV 6 rumours!

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

In 2018 Lmao? 8k is not a thing yet for the mainstream and won't be for years.

With 77inch TVs and upwards for certain buyers and Apple agreeing with the new AV1 compression, I'd say that 8K is not far away at all. You only have to look across at Japan and South Korea to see the trends. ATV is not mainstream, that's DVD, Sky TV etc. If anything, future ATV could carry 8K just like ATV is beating 4K BluRay when it comes to Dolby Vision 4K.
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I wanted a load of these features back in the days of the ATV2/3, but I've now moved on and I think the ATV 4K is almost there. Built in tuners is never going to happen. Too many SKUs worldwide with many different standards and as has been mentioned an HDHomeRun and Channels App will fulfil this need. Audio is still an issue. DTS can be bitstreamed using Infuse (who have paid for a licence), HD audio can't yet be bitstreamed but again, Infuse will decode and pass it through as PCM. The reason Atmos and DTS:X aren't supported is that the height information is stored as meta-data and is lost if decoded on the ATV and the way TvOS works is to decode/recode to add in the UI sounds and Siri responses. I imagine that Apple is intending to introduce Atmos in a DD+ stream (i.e. lossy) in a future TvOS update. How an App like Infuse deals with lossless Atmos, I don't know. However, only 4K BluRays have lossless Atmos tracks and these haven't been cracked yet...

A second HDMI output for Audio could be useful for a few people - but again, if Atmos is only available over a DD+ stream, a lot of TV passthrough/ARC should be good enough. I suspect if you care that much about this, you will either have the OPPO 4K player which I believe you can feed the ATV into to aplit the audio, or will invest in an HDMI splitter (or will already have a 4K/HDR compliant AV receiver/Soundbar).

Infuse also acts an app to play items from a NAS which solves that problem. A TvOS update to allow 3rd party apps to add items into the TV app would finally let all your media appear in one app.

The only hardware updates I can see being useful are an HDMI 2.1 port which would allow QMS support to remove the blank screen when switching frame rates and VRR for games. I guess by the time this roles around, we'll be up to an A12 or A12X chip to give a power boost. Hopefully some kind of remote upgrade will come too - the current one doesn't bother me so much, but it could always be better.

Apple just don't care about TV gaming. If they wanted to push it through, they would have to bundle a controller and build real bridges to game developers and pay for some exclusives - iOS ports aren't going to cut it. I suspect, they have their hands full comissioning all these TV shows at the moment. Perhaps if the ruoured Netflix buy-out goes through they could look to push gaming more, but I think this will be years away.

Totally agree with everything that you're said here and a great explanation of how HDMI 2.1 will improve ATV whilst fitting in with Apples 'elegance approach' with no black screen switching!

 

[Macalicious2011]

I keep saying a "Gaming Edition" version would break ATV into millions more homes, instantly.

- Dedicated Apple game controller bundle!
- A-list game devs pulled on board a la Bungie, LucasArts, Blizzard, etc.
- Beefier RAM, GPU and storage specs

It bewilders me how Apple ignores the huge (and growing) console game market. Don't believe me? Just check out this recent story from Ars: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018...ath-game-consoles-are-doing-better-than-ever/

Until Apple does first party sponsorship of games, gaming on the Apple TV and iOS devices will remain a joke.

Full priced games are hard to find, most freemium ones are money leeches and a few worth buying are too short. I'm a casual gamer and bought my first console in 10 years, a PS4 Pro as there are hardly anything impressive to play on the iPad Pro or ATV.

 

[Closingracer]

With 77inch TVs and upwards for certain buyers and Apple agreeing with the new AV1 compression, I'd say that 8K is not far away at all. You only have to look across at Japan and South Korea to see the trends. ATV is not mainstream, that's DVD, Sky TV etc. If anything, future ATV could carry 8K just like ATV is beating 4K BluRay when it comes to Dolby Vision 4K.
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Totally agree with everything that you're said here and a great explanation of how HDMI 2.1 will improve ATV whilst fitting in with Apples 'elegance approach' with no black screen switching!

8k won't be mainstream for YEARS. 4k just hit the mainstream market and there isn't much 4k content let alone 8k. TV is still stuck at 720p or 1080i

 

[Rigby]

DTS can be bitstreamed using Infuse (who have paid for a licence), HD audio can't yet be bitstreamed but again, Infuse will decode and pass it through as PCM.

I would like to see true bitstreaming for both iTunes and 3rd party content. The main reason is that Apple's internal Dolby decoders and/or their audio mixer have had long-running issues (see e.g. our own thread here) that still don't seem to be fully resolved. They came around and allowed frame rate switching, so hopefully this is something they are considering too.

The reason Atmos and DTS:X aren't supported is that the height information is stored as meta-data and is lost if decoded

Yep, another good reason for bitstreaming.

However, only 4K BluRays have lossless Atmos tracks and these haven't been cracked yet...

That's not true, there are quite a few standard Blu-rays with TrueHD Atmos tracks.

A second HDMI output for Audio could be useful for a few people - but again, if Atmos is only available over a DD+ stream, a lot of TV passthrough/ARC should be good enough.

Yep. I don't believe Apple will ever do two HDMI outputs. It's the kind of hacky solution they don't like.

Infuse also acts an app to play items from a NAS which solves that problem. A TvOS update to allow 3rd party apps to add items into the TV app would finally let all your media appear in one app.

It would be nice if they allowed those apps to play back DRM-protected iTunes files, so you wouldn't have to run an iTunes server all the time. It's not out of the question, given that iOS 3rd party apps can actually play such files through AVKit.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

8k won't be mainstream for YEARS. 4k just hit the mainstream market and there isn't much 4k content let alone 8k. TV is still stuck at 720p or 1080i

It depends what you call mainstream. Conventional TV is dead - it's viewer is 65 years of age upwards. It's last century. It's on demand that lives now - Amazon, Netflix, iTunes - all doing 4K. iTunes offers 300 films in 4K DV here in the UK right now. Japan & South Korea are broadcasting 8K right now. Sport films have been shot in 8K using Phantom cameras & RED for 2 to 3 years now. Just wait until Amazon decide to go 8K or Netflix. It's such an incredibly fast moving industry that you should really not talk years!!!

 

[Closingracer]

It depends what you call mainstream. Conventional TV is dead - it's viewer is 65 years of age upwards. It's last century. It's on demand that lives now - Amazon, Netflix, iTunes - all doing 4K. iTunes offers 300 films in 4K DV here in the UK right now. Japan & South Korea are broadcasting 8K right now. Sport films have been shot in 8K using Phantom cameras & RED for 2 to 3 years now. Just wait until Amazon decide to go 8K or Netflix. It's such an incredibly fast moving industry that you should really not talk years!!!

LOL I'm 27 and I still watch conventional TV... It's call ESPN and you can't have football on demand.... OMG iTunes offers 300 films in DVD and 4K? Oh wait my TV ( Sony X900E)doesn't even support DV and DV is. Niche market still with only LG, TCL, Vizio and Sony supporting it really and no Blu-ray movie supporting it. Blah blah blah about physical format as well but I still buy Blu-ray movies because they are better and don't need an internet connection to watch it.

Also 300 films is nothing.... Even with my 150 + movie library in iTunes only a few is 4k and/ DV ready

And once again 8k tvs are NOT mainstream yet. There is no opinionated term it's not mainstream yet and it's a fact. Japanese market isn't what makes sales its the European and North American market which matters and you don't have content and hardware at a reasonable price for 8k to be mainstream. And tbh 8k can very well be the next Blu-ray where it's better but the vast majority doesn't care which is why we still see DVD's still.

 

[kiranmk2]

No 8K from Apple until it becomes a standard. Remember the HD Tvs being sold before the 'HD ready' standard with no HDMI or the 4K Tvs sold from 2013 with no HDR or HDMI 2.0 support? Apple (and I suspect the studios) will not move on this until a new standard is available - even as 8K sets come in from this year.

 

[JeffPerrin]

Until Apple does first party sponsorship of games, gaming on the Apple TV and iOS devices will remain a joke.

I don't think the games suck so much as casual games are best suited for a mobile audience. These just feel like ports of iOS games.

Instead of investing in a true living room gaming platform able to compete with Sony's PS4 or Microsoft's XBox, I believe Apple was hoping the enormous success of iOS gaming would simply translate over to Apple TV. Too bad... they had a real window of opportunity a couple years ago when people questioned the future of console gaming (see Ars article I linked earlier).

 

[rolandhurt31]

The 5 limit is OK - it's 5 Apple devices PLUS 5 Apple TVs. Surely no house has more than 5 Apple TVs??? If so, there's too much TV watching going on
[doublepost=1516476361][/doublepost]No ATV6 will be 2019 with HDMI 2.1 to go with the 2019 TVs etc. Really can't see it before then.
If anything, we'll see Dolby Atmos added when the HomePos launches and the HomePod with its 7 tweeters and 360degree sound will have some kind of pseudo Dolby Atmos to go with it. If Apple can do this with the HomePod OR bring out a HomePod sounder, they'll have the home cinema market for their iTunes fans.
I'd love to see a beautifully designed compact Apple sounder that works seamlessly with the ATV 4K. What a beautiful experience that would be!
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Some great points there buddy BUT I'd LOVE to know, outside of the USA, what the sales figures / amount of homes that actually have home cinema speakers or even soundbars. From what I can see, it's tiny. Not sure if Apple would be interested in lossless audio. If anything, they'll be wanting to make their HomePod work with the ATV and here Dolby Atmos may appear.
I really don't believe that Apple are even concerned about 4K BluRay. It's very very very clear to see from Panasonic, Sony's 2018 offerings - low price, cheap end only players - that even the manufacturers are NOT INTERESTED in this format. It's simply a way for Hollywood to make more money as the rest of the world is and has been for the last 5+ years - streaming!
Just looking at 4K BluRay titles, it's merely mainstream Hollywood releases. There's not one film in the catalogue that interests me.
And finally, i'd rather Apple keep the ATV as a Apple eco-system iTunes, Mac, iPhone device. Truly not interested in all TV channels that can be accessed through satellite going onto ATV - the TV channel watching market is declining - in the UK the average age of a TV watcher is 61-65!!! I can't see why having these channels fits in with the Apple customer - simply get what you want from an App.
And finally, let's not forget what Apple and Apple TV is all about. It's easy to use. It's NOT COMPLICATED. It will have one single HDMI 2.1 connector on it AND THAT'S IT.
Anyone who wants the mubojumbo - millions of HDMI, Coaxial this and that should merely buy their Oppo 205. Apple is not about overcomplicating things. It's zen! Less is more - And worry free!

I watch TV on my  TV 4K through the TV Player & NowTV apps, even with hub & iPlayer do live TV, not sure about My5. Why would TV tuners be required when there are services like these streaming TV?

Roland

 

[Macalicious2011]

I don't think the games suck so much as casual games are best suited for a mobile audience. These just feel like ports of iOS games.

Instead of investing in a true living room gaming platform able to compete with Sony's PS4 or Microsoft's XBox, I believe Apple was hoping the enormous success of iOS gaming would simply translate over to Apple TV. Too bad... they had a real window of opportunity a couple years ago when people questioned the future of console gaming (see Ars article I linked earlier).

You hit the nail on the head. iOS games don't translate well to the big screen or for those desiring something cognitively more challenging or stimulating than cut the rope or angry birds. ATV need is Nintendo style games.

Developers won't bother developing games if they will be unprofitable. To make Xbox a strong challenger Microsoft put several hundred millions behind first party titles. Unless Apple does the same, the ATV will remain a media with unfulfilled gaming potential.

 

[LaraCroft835]

Probably a load of tosh, but still https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/apple/new-apple-tv-6-2018-release-date-price-specs-rumours-3663891/

it is a crap site