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I was just thinking, coudldn't you do pretty much all of functions apple tv has to offer with an ipod and the iPod AV Connection Kit that is sold by Apple? (minus the fancy on screen menu)

yes, but with these issues:

must sync, walk and plug in your iPod.
iPod is max 480p (640x480 30fps) - DVD quality
no remote capability beyond play, pause, ff, rw. (can't browse iPod).
no streaming from other computers

If you don't mind the inconvenience and slightly reduced quality, it will be fine. I have been using an iPod with AV Conx for the last year. It works absolutely great on standard TVs. For HDTV, not so good, the picture quality looks pretty bad, well as bad as standard cable that is.

So, if you have HDTV, get the Apple TV, if you have a standard tv (and video ipod) get the AV Conx kit.
 
Because encoding Xvid or X.264 wont kill your cpu, like H.264 does. What happends in two years when theres a new much better codec, that Apple don't like to much. Do you have to buy something new?

Apple's market shouldn't be only people who want to buy iTS Movies. Anyone who wants to play their movies from their computer onto their FlatTV should be the market for something like TV. The H.264 percentage of downloaded movies cant be much more than 0,5%. It's all about Xvid! It's fast and there's almost as good as H.264.

I really don't think TV is going to be a «hit».
Being able to decode Xvid at least would be nice, seeing as it is a no-cost option for DivX compatibility. I've watched a few legitimate bittorrents from a site hosting old out-of-copyright movies, old sci-fis etc, on my DVD player with DivX playback. Seeing as it has a version of OSX, it should be a simple software update. And seeing it can connect to the internet, the system could easily be updated automatically.
The 720p resolution restriction, less for MPEG-2, has to do with with Wi-Fi bandwidth limits, though if the hardware is capable, I think synced content should be able to play full 1080i, be it XviD or Ogg Theora. Maybe that chip is more expensive?

Having said that, H264 is the future, being the standard for all HD formats like HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. It is not an Apple standard, they are just the first to widely adopt it. It is FAR superior to DivX in a number of ways, technical and quality-wise. Its incredible compression rate at higher quality is its main selling point over the old MPEG standard, and you will soon see it everywhere, much to the consternation of Microsoft, who is trying to push WM9 (and yes, it too is in the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray specs). As for X264, that is an opensource encoder of H264, NOT a separate format! H264 and AAC, which Apple has standardised on, are the next-gen standards from the MPEG group replacing the old MPEG-2 and MP3 standards, are NOT going away anytime soon, and being an international standard, is cross-platform. Even Linux people can play it legally. Its one downside is the computing power needed to decode (and encode) it. Which hardware encoder/decoders in things like the Apple TV takes care of. Possibly every Mac may come with an encoder/decoder chip as standard. On my 1Ghz PC, VNC player does a good job too, better than Quicktime (incidentally, VNC uses the X264 library).
Of course, it would be nice if the labels and studios would allow Apple to sell non-DRM content as Steve urged them in his open letter, but I doubt they'll listen. Last thing we need is Apple bowing to their demands and produce something as DRM-crippled as Vista where only "trusted" applications can run "trusted" content, such as HD-DVD, through "trusted" hardware.

People use DivX because it is far more compact and modern than the aging MPEG-2 format of the DVDs they rip. Once HD-DVD/Blu-Ray starts to replace DVD, people will rip HD content straight to H264/AAC, which means no re-encoding or cross-encoding and resultant loss of quality. People might only use DivX/XviD if they want lower-resolution rips, and hence have to re-encode anyway.
 
...
Exactly. We DON'T KNOW that 5.1 isn't or won't be supported in the AppleTV. I give it 40 to 60 chance that it is in the current AppleTV, and a 90 to 10 chance that if not, it will be upgraded through software to support it in under a year. Unless this AppleTV is really a test product, and they are waiting for the 2nd generation AppleTV...

But then, why bother putting optical out? Really - I'm open to answers here, I'm generally curious, and not exactly an expert on audio/video connections - why would Apple put an optical out on their machine unless it would support an audio format better than the composite output?

Well, personally I think the digital out always has the potential to be "better."

I'd take 2-channels of digital out vs. 2-channels of audio simply for the reason I'd be able to use a high-quality D-A vs. using the onboard D-A. I've compared the onboard sound from different Macs (both Intel or PPC) using a good set of Sony-Pro headphones to the sound from external sound devices/cards and the onboard sound just never sounds as good as most any PCI, Firewire or USB sound card. But then, it's not just Apple -- any computer maker's onboard (analog) sound has always sounded inferior to external audio devices that I've listened to... and specs bear the difference out.

That said, I can't imagine Apple going to the trouble of building a collection of movie content featuring AAC 5.1 6-channel sound and offering it for sale on the iTunes store if Apple isn't planning to provide a way for users to hear the sound in all its 6-channels glory via Apple TV's optical out. Esp., since :apple: TV appear to be, at least in part, a vehicle for Apple to sell movies via iTunes.
 
7.7 inches square?

I'm kind of surprised by the dimensions -- 7.7 inches square. I had expected them to keep the Mac Mini form factor. I wonder if the next gen Mac Mini (if there still will be one) might go into this new size and maybe get a 3.5 inch hard drive.
 
I've started transcoding all my pirated videos. I only have all the episodes of Dead Like Me, Star Trek TNG, Star Trek Voyager, Futurama, Family Guy, Battlestar Galactica, CSI: Miami, The Simpsons, Stargate SG1, Stargate Atlantis, Star Trek TOS, Star Trek DS9, Star Trek Enterprise, .... and a few more.

This will only take me about 4 months. It's almost 730gb total.

They are all Xvid and Divx, with a few weird mkv files or something, I think it's just another MPEG-4 container.

I wish this thing could play these files straight up. :mad:


WTF son?? :) how many times do you expect to see all that over?
I wonder whether anyone really sees a novie or show more than three times.

most people only watch a movie about once unless its really good.. .Then maybe twice or so... I would not want to buy all the movies i like and clutter up my space with junk that i'll never maybe even watch again.

think apple tv is great simple on-demand movies/music and its clutter free.
 
I'm kind of surprised by the dimensions -- 7.7 inches square. I had expected them to keep the Mac Mini form factor. I wonder if the next gen Mac Mini (if there still will be one) might go into this new size and maybe get a 3.5 inch hard drive.

A new Mac mini based on the :apple: TV format would be interesting, esp. if it used a Nvidia GeForce Go 7400 (64 MB VRAM) like the :apple: TV is rumored to use.
 
What I'm dieing to know is if the system can be hacked to replace the HD with a larger one. I want to rip my DVD collection and throw em up in the attic but with over 500 moves...a 40GB drive will NOT cut it in any way shape or form. 200GB though? eh...Prob not even then. *sighs*
 
So the :apple:tv doesn't work in full 1080 HD? That's kinda weird. I would have thought that would be one of the main features.
So much for Steve's "Year of HD". Wait, wasn't that last year? Well, I guess it expired so HD is over.

And yes, I know that 720 is technically still HD but honestly, that's just lame. I'll be waiting for Revision B. Or C. And it had better have support for multichannel surround audio as well, another glaring oversight which is an absolute dealbreaker for me on this device. Nice concept, botched execution. Please try again.
 
Sorry, but this product doesn't appeal to me. Why would I want to download movies from iTunes for just a few bucks less than the DVD costs and not even get 1080i quality? I mean, I didn't spend a few grand on a 50-inch HD plasma to watch anything less than HD quality movies.

You spent way too much. ;-)

But I agree: this is a last-gen product. It's an underpowered gizmo for those with underpowered TVs who want to shop at the iTunes store for medium-res fare.

It's so underwhelming, you'd think it was from Dell.
 
Wouldn't it be better to think of the hard disk rather than being 'small' as being the most economic size to get the job done as in

a) somewhere for the OS to reside ( and screensaver photo render files etc), and

b) a big HD buffer so when you watch a movie that's streamed the buffer is say 20MB's on the HD and can cope with any collisions on the wireless network so you have uninterrupted streaming unlike every other product that has tried and failed to make this work.

This is not meant to be 'a 1000 movies under your TV'...

Would it be fair to Apple to say that there mission was to make ;

'A simple, elegant Apple brand media streamer that 'works'...

On that count it's succeeded and it's pretty lovely and essentially does what it needs to for 2007 thru 2009...
 
So much for Steve's "Year of HD". Wait, wasn't that last year? Well, I guess it expired so HD is over.

And yes, I know that 720 is technically still HD but honestly, that's just lame. I'll be waiting for Revision B. Or C. And it had better have support for multichannel surround audio as well, another glaring oversight which is an absolute dealbreaker for me on this device. Nice concept, botched execution. Please try again.

Wow! You actually have a 1080p TV? I'm impressed...
 
I predict the Apple TV will be a flop. It doesn't do anything better than what's already out there. You'd be better off spending a little more and getting an Xbox 360 or even a mac mini.

I'd probably buy one if I did'nt own a mini, currently I use DVDpedia as my Interface to scroll thru in full screen my available movies, I have the files, mostly avi's but some MP4's (nice to have flexibility) linked to the DVDpedia profiles and they run in VLC, which to me offers a better picture quality than Quicktime. I still Have Itunes available in Full Screen mode for my Apple Lossless, music files and TV shows. I like that the Apple TV offers you a unified interface, and a remote. But I can't Justify buying one since I have the mini.
 
Wow! You actually have a 1080p TV? I'm impressed...

Aren't a lot of the current HDTVs 1080p now? I bought a Westinghouse 47" 1080p LCD 6 months ago for $2499 Canadian at Best Buy. Getting 1080p is not so hard anymore.

The picture quality is fantastic with your Mac hooked up to it at 1920 x 1080(p).
 
You spent way too much. ;-)

But I agree: this is a last-gen product. It's an underpowered gizmo for those with underpowered TVs who want to shop at the iTunes store for medium-res fare.

It's so underwhelming, you'd think it was from Dell.

ROFL Dell, that's rich... and hey, I'm one of those guys who spent too much for a 1080P 50" flat screen lol :eek:
 
The AppleTV is a joke. It's clearly missing the most important features. I've outlined seven below.

1) GPS. This is an INDUSTRY STANDARD on media centers. What if you want to watch a movie, but you don't know WHERE you are? You have to go all the way into another room to get your GPS device? What a hassel. This is a deal breaker right here. You could get halfway through a movie, and then notice you've gotten lost in your living room. How will you find your way to your computer to buy new iTunes content? I don't know about this one though, you might be able to plug a GPS unit in the USB port. We'll have to wait and see.

2) Bluetooth. What if I have a movie or podcast on my RAZR and I want to synch it to AppleTV? Again, I have to find a computer, synch it to that first, and THEN find it on AppleTV? I can find a device that plays iTunes files on my TV and has bluetooth for HALF the $299 price.

3) .art support. Over 98% of the images on my hard drive are saved using the AOL .art format. That's how they came when I downloaded them, and that's the only format I believe in. What am I supposed to do, RECONVERT all these pictures just to play on AppleTV? Yeah right Apple, better luck next time.

4) No Power Brick. How does this make any sense? For $299 I should atleast get a powerbrick to go with my AppleTV. I have all this space behind my TV for such an item, and now I don't even get one. What am I supposed to put there? Another AppleTV? Now I have to buy TWO? This is unreasonable.

5) 3840x2160 resolution. This is really a no brainer. This is a NEXT GEN device, isn't it? Why won't it support resolutions that aren't popular yet? What if I want to watch a movie in 2160p? This is another example where I could just hook up my iPod to my TV instead of paying $299 for a fancy interface.

6) Halo 3. None of the specs on the site list "Halo 3" as a supported game. My Xbox360 will be able to play Halo 3, but my AppleTV won't. Clearly my Xbox360 is still a better iTunes extender because of this. I don't know if AppleTV will support Gears of War either. Maybe it's a hidden feature.

7) Widgets. For $299 I should be able to get widgets on my TV. Apple REALLY dropped the ball here. I can't imagine why anyone would buy an AppleTV when they could pay several hundred more for a Mac Mini and get pixelated HTML documents and widgets on their TV. Let's just hope it gets hacked so that I can put widgets on it. Otherwise, this device is garbage.

If Apple doesn't fix these seven issues by the time the already shipped items arrive in our homes, I'm going to definitely declare this device a complete flop.
Wow, I didn't consider any of these reasons! That's it, my AppleTV is going back to Apple today until they give us the product we demand! :D
 
Show me the statistics were it states that most people with HDTV do NOT use 5.1 surround sound...

Well Upstairs where I watch most of the TV shows I often don't turn on the 5.1, I just listen thru the TV, so there (And that's where if I bought an ATV it would be) it might be true, but in my Theater Downstairs watching Movies, the 5.1 is always on
 
Aren't a lot of the current HDTVs 1080p now? I bought a Westinghouse 47" 1080p LCD 6 months ago for $2499 Canadian at Best Buy. Getting 1080p is not so hard anymore.

The picture quality is fantastic with your Mac hooked up to it at 1920 x 1080(p).


It's getting out there, but mostly in the $2000+ category. Unless you are going to get a PS3/HD-DVD and buy a bunch of movies, you really don't need it and can get an hdtv for much,much cheaper.
 
It's getting out there, but mostly in the $2000+ category. Unless you are going to get a PS3/HD-DVD and buy a bunch of movies, you really don't need it and can get an hdtv for much,much cheaper.

Well that really depends on your source for TV and if you want to be technically viable for the next 5 - 10 years.

Directv offers a lot of true 1080i sports, movies, and features. On an LCD 1080p tv, 1080i is essentially the same due to the way that LCD converts the interlaced signal to a non-interlaced image. Also starting this summer, Directv will be introducing new receivers that handle true 1080p reception.

In addition, Sony Bravias are going to include ethernet connections, HDD, and will have direct to disk download services of 1080p movies from the Sony catalog of movies. This service starts in May.

Blue-Ray movies are popping up at rental stores.

It won't be long and 1080P will be readily available. So who wants to spend close to $2000 on a 2007 HD TV and not have 1080p capabilities. It seems to me that if you spend the money that you definitely want a tv that will be techinically capable for the next 5 - 10 years.
 
I'd probably buy one if I did'nt own a mini, currently I use DVDpedia as my Interface to scroll thru in full screen my available movies, I have the files, mostly avi's but some MP4's (nice to have flexibility) linked to the DVDpedia profiles and they run in VLC, which to me offers a better picture quality than Quicktime. I still Have Itunes available in Full Screen mode for my Apple Lossless, music files and TV shows. I like that the Apple TV offers you a unified interface, and a remote. But I can't Justify buying one since I have the mini.

If Apple doesn't do it first, I bet it won't be long before software developers create media center software for the mini.

It could have remote control capabilities and unify programs like VLC, QT, iTunes, itms, etc for direct access from an attached HD TV and surround sound system. It could also serve as a DVR.

The mini is infinitely more capable than AppleTV and for a slightly higher cost with the right software could be a killer media center.
 
Someone may have beaten me to it, but here's the Apple TV manual as a PDF...
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/AppleTV_UserGuide.pdf

And here's lots of (what appears to me to be new definitive) answers to some questions which have been thoroughly speculated pro & con in multiple threads...
http://search.info.apple.com/?q=katv...tech+OR+klearn

I've run through both pretty quickly and found answers to some of my own questions about this product (mostly very favorable by the way). But the one (for me) that seems to still be missing is any reference to 5.1 surround (pro or con).
 
Apple still makes computers? I forgot.


Not difficult to forget when there has been absolutely no mention of updates to any of their computer lines for the past 6 months, give or take... When was the last update, MacBooks in November, or whenever it was???

Let's hope for some big updates soon, possibly having something to do with top secret Leopard features, hence why all the delays... :cool:
 
Not difficult to forget when there has been absolutely no mention of updates to any of their computer lines for the past 6 months, give or take... When was the last update, MacBooks in November, or whenever it was???

Let's hope for some big updates soon, possibly having something to do with top secret Leopard features, hence why all the delays... :cool:

I'm with you Shard!

This seems to be a weird year in the history of Apple. SJ and company really haven't uttered a peep about the computer products at all.

In addition, WWDC2006 introducedLeopard, with secret features to follow. Yet when MWSF2007 rolled around not even a screen shot in the presentation mentions Leopard or any secret features.

Now people are speculating that Leopard will appear soon but we really haven't officially even seen what is going to be included. It just hasn't been Apple-like at all.

Now the rumor mills are filled with talk on ipods, :apple: TV's, iPhones, etc. etc. Yet there hasn't been a significant change to the form factor of any of the Mac line since 2000.

There have only been processor and GPU card changes and that is about it!

Let's hope that April brings news and glimpses of the future of Apple computers. Apple device are fine and nice but personally I only really use and work with Apple computers. I like the product enough that I hope it just doesn't go away when Apple re-invents itself.
 
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