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QCassidy352, I apoligize for coming across as a jerk. But I was genuinely surprised by your post. After your explanation I can see your general stand-point - I would just disagree with you.

I do think your predictions are narrow minded... and I mean that in the most un-jerk-ly manner possible.
 
Woohoo!

Got my shipping notice last night. I only ordered mine a few weeks ago, so it looks like they are filling all of the pre-sale orders. I'm so tired of my lousy JVC network media player and all of its bugs and flaws. I'm really hoping the Apple TV will deliver the level of quality and user experience I expect from Apple.

That said, the BIGGEST problem with Apple TV has nothing to do with the box itself. Ripping DVDs to MP4 format is very time-consuming, even on relatively new hardware. H.264 encoding is brutally slow. I hope there's some truth to the rumor that Apple is adding support for H.264 in hardware. This will make converting video for Apple TV far less painful.
 
If they would put DVD ripping functionality in iTunes, I'd be all over that. I'd rip everything and watch it from AppleTV.

Never going to happen. But you don't need it either. Both MediaFork/HandBrake and MacTheRipper can rip DVDs. MediaFork can also rip and encode directly to H.264/MP4. You can then import the file to iTunes. There are a lot of other conversion utilities out there too. A great one is MPEG StreamClip. It can convert all sorts of video to H.264, fix timecode errors, etc. And it's free!

There's no reason to hold off on buying an Apple TV if DVD ripping is your only concern.
 
Go away too...

"Honestly, I have no interest in arguing with you all any more. If you like the :apple: TV then good for you, buy and enjoy. I still think it's an overpriced, under-featured niche product with little practical application. Since I think my position is clear, and the fact (and reasons) that many of you disagree with me is also quite clear, I'm just going to bow out of this argument now."

How about not hanging around a thread for a product you have no interest in buying. You are just as bad a he is. And now, I am just as bad as you.
 
Now see I don't have a widescreen set. I just have a normal 32'' TV. Sure the image is going to biger on the TV , but wouldn't look better on the computer screen?

I just thought about this. Can a Mac do suround sound? Can you streem the
suround sound? If it does, I can see reason to buy the AppleTV.

Hugh

The lack of widescreen might be a hindrance to you. AFAIK ATV does not do surround. at least not full 5.1, and Macs are the same, without 3rd party software and speakers. You might get away with an ATV if your set supports a "widescreen mode" but personally I think you'd find it too much of a compromise and might be better off waiting until you've upgraded your TV. I'm not entirely sure what the reason for needing a widesceen is, given that ATV must surely be capable of streaming 4:3 content - I think I read somewhere it was an necessity for the user interface since it has been designed for a widescreen display.
 
How about not hanging around a thread for a product you have no interest in buying. You are just as bad a he is. And now, I am just as bad as you.
I think all three of you suck. So there. ;)

No, just kidding. But back to the thread topic: Can anyone with more of a clue than I tell me if there is a way to use :apple: TV with a non-HD TV? A converter cable or what-have-you that sits in the middle?
 
Hey newbie, thanks for being a smart***. Great way to start around here.

My point is that you don't need an :apple: TV to do any of the things you suggested. You can view those things on your computer screen, or you can hook your laptop to your TV if you really *must* have it in your living room instead of whatever room you keep your computer in.

And your reference to the ipod is just oh-so-clever. Clearly, given that the ipod was wildly successful, everything else apple ever releases will be as well, even products that do entirely different things and target entirely different markets. (see? I can use sarcasm too! How impressive! :rolleyes: )

Don't talk to me about ipods. I had a 1st Gen before 95% of america knew what they were. My family and friends thought I was nuts, that I was taken by another apple product that nobody needed. I disagreed because the usefulness of the ipod, the need that it filled, was clear. The ipod filled a need that genuinely existed - people had been trying to carry large amounts of music with them for years, and it usually entailed a CD player and a big book of CDs.

I don't see that usefulness or need here. I've never had the slightest desire to display album art during a party :)rolleyes: ), show my family photos on my tv, or blow up video podcasts on a big screen. I see the :apple: TV as a device that you're trying to think up uses for, not one that does things that people actually wished they could do prior to :apple: TV's existence.

That said, if you want to spend $300 to move content, which you already own, 2 rooms over, go ahead.

On demand 720p movies and TV is enough of a reason to buy one for me. The content is not here quite yet, but just wait, I see the Sopranos, 24, and West Wing coming to iTMS soon!
 
The lack of widescreen might be a hindrance to you. AFAIK ATV does not do surround. at least not full 5.1, and Macs are the same, without 3rd party software and speakers. You might get away with an ATV if your set supports a "widescreen mode" but personally I think you'd find it too much of a compromise and might be better off waiting until you've upgraded your TV. I'm not entirely sure what the reason for needing a widesceen is, given that ATV must surely be capable of streaming 4:3 content - I think I read somewhere it was an necessity for the user interface since it has been designed for a widescreen display.

Some movie trailers have 5.1 AAC. Check out this link...

http://www.thismuchiknow.co.uk/?p=24
 
I'm looking forward to reviews of AppleTV ,the actual capabilities. On the face of it, unless you live in the states, the usage of this is going to quite limited ( i.e., no tv content ).

Wonder what, if any, games will be shipped?
 
I have Windows, and they sucks eggs on Windows. From what I've seen, they're mediocre on Mac. I have yet to find anything that can see all the episodes on BattleStar Galactica Season One.

Handbrake works great on a Mac, especially for iPod compatible video. It is true, some DVD titles don't show up using Handbrake, but there are ways to fix that.

iMac G5->MTR beta->dvdoneX->handbrake->BattleStar Galactica on my iPod!
 
I'm looking forward to reviews of AppleTV ,the actual capabilities. On the face of it, unless you live in the states, the usage of this is going to quite limited ( i.e., no tv content ).

Wonder what, if any, games will be shipped?

Shipped with the @TV? Hopefully by the end of the week iTMS will start showing 720p video and games. We know it is coming, but don't know how long we will have to wait.

Hopefully Apple will get some deals worked out with the movie studios so Europe can get some content. I read somewhere else that some TV shows don't air overseas till way after the original U.S. airdates, makes me think there are a lot of hurdles to pass first.
 
QCassidy352, I apoligize for coming across as a jerk. But I was genuinely surprised by your post. After your explanation I can see your general stand-point - I would just disagree with you.

I do think your predictions are narrow minded... and I mean that in the most un-jerk-ly manner possible.

rphares , I don't think you have cause to apologise. After all, your are entitled to your opinion, as the other guys is. You did clearly state you were trying to be sarcastic, rather then just post as if you were being clever.

When I saw how you were maligned for your post, I just thought to myself that your party sounded like a lot more fun that than QCassidy352's.

from a fellow newbie. Welcome to the forum :)
 
Handbrake works great on a Mac, especially for iPod compatible video. It is true, some DVD titles don't show up using Handbrake, but there are ways to fix that.

iMac G5->MTR beta->dvdoneX->handbrake->BattleStar Galactica on my iPod!

I had no trouble ripping BSG DVDs with handbrake? Weird.
 
itv vs a mac mini and iTV interface questions

one thing that people overlook when they do that "i'm gonna use a mac mini instead" thing is that the mac mini frontrow and itv interface are very different. The one that pops out at me is the movie information that is listed below each cover that says the year of release, director, etc. Another is coverflow for music.

This raises some interesting questions.

1. Is Frontrow 2.0 going to have the same interface as iTV?

2. Is Frontrow 2.0 going to be released at the same time as iTV or with Leopard
or at some other time?

3. Where does that movie info stuff come from? Is it a tag (like id3), or is it downloaded (imdb or the apple store?), or is it user entered?

4. If it's user entered, is that done in itunes? quicktime? from the iTV with a keyboard?

5. If the iTV does eventually incorporate games, what do you use to control them? the apple remote? some usb device?

6. Currently in itunes you can only use the "list" view for browsing shared libraries, seemingly since cover flow is too data-intense to do wirelessly. How does iTV overcome this hurdle? Does it download all cover images to the internal hd? How long does that take with large libraries?

Whoever gets one in-hand, give the people some answers.
 
rphares , I don't think you have cause to apologise. After all, your are entitled to your opinion, as the other guys is. You did clearly state you were trying to be sarcastic, rather then just post as if you were being clever.

When I saw how you were maligned for your post, I just thought to myself that your party sounded like a lot more fun that than QCassidy352's.

from a fellow newbie. Welcome to the forum :)

I agree. I think the guy who chewed rphares out for using sarcasm (blatantly obvious sarcasm, no less) was annoyed that rphares disagreed with him. And frankly, the guy comes across as someone who has a very narrow view of the world, projecting his demographic on the entire world, and he seems quite adamant that his opinions and his way of doing things are clearly the best way to do things.

It's unfortunate, particularly because that attitude is not uncommon in the Apple world. I hope that Apple continues to gain market share so that the Apple-using population can normalize a bit.

I also would rather party with rphares. But please, no BSG on the :apple:TV.
 
one thing that people overlook when they do that "i'm gonna use a mac mini instead" thing is that the mac mini frontrow and itv interface are very different. The one that pops out at me is the movie information that is listed below each cover that says the year of release, director, etc. Another is coverflow for music.

This raises some interesting questions.

1. Is Frontrow 2.0 going to have the same interface as iTV?

2. Is Frontrow 2.0 going to be released at the same time as iTV or with Leopard
or at some other time?

3. Where does that movie info stuff come from? Is it a tag (like id3), or is it downloaded (imdb or the apple store?), or is it user entered?

4. If it's user entered, is that done in itunes? quicktime? from the iTV with a keyboard?

5. If the iTV does eventually incorporate games, what do you use to control them? the apple remote? some usb device?

6. Currently in itunes you can only use the "list" view for browsing shared libraries, seemingly since cover flow is too data-intense to do wirelessly. How does iTV overcome this hurdle? Does it download all cover images to the internal hd? How long does that take with large libraries?

Whoever gets one in-hand, give the people some answers.

The movie info is just a tag. You can use iTunes to modify most of it, some tags require the use of another program (eg Lostify). The games will be basic for now, you would just use the remote. At the Keynote, the album art was there when Steve was browsing his buddy's laptop.

One thing Mac Mini users are forgetting is that the @TV is designed to output video to a HDTV. You won't have to worry about the picture being cropped, miss-aligned, or converting from one interface to another. I think the overall picture quality from the @TV will surpass that of the Mac Mini.
 
The movie info is just a tag. You can use iTunes to modify most of it, some tags require the use of another program (eg Lostify).

I'm pretty sure that the screenshot i saw from iTV had info on director (labeled as such) and actors, etc. Those tags aren't available currently in itunes or lostify.
 
I'm pretty sure that the screenshot i saw from iTV had info on director (labeled as such) and actors, etc. Those tags aren't available currently in itunes or lostify.

I don't know, I have not seen those screen shots. Director could go in the artist field and the actors etc. could be put in the description. I don't see the @TV having different tags from what can be seen in iTunes.
 
Man, every time there's AppleTV news, some asshat comes in here to let us know that AppleTV sucks and he's not buying one. THANKS FOR THE UPDATE. Make sure to keep posting on every AppleTV thread, because we certainly care about your opinion.

I'm all for debate over the product, but it's SO TIRED. Every single AppleTV thread has turned into a debate over the worth of the product. It's always the same arguments, nothing new is ever said. I'm just so done with it. Isn't there a place for someone who doesn't care about the debate and just wants to discuss the news? I thought that was here.

At any rate, I called two local Apple stores and they told me they don't have them on the shelves yet. It's just after 1pm here. I'm guess we'll see them in a few days then. The anticipation is killing me.
 
Man, every time there's AppleTV news, some asshat comes in here to let us know that AppleTV sucks and he's not buying one. THANKS FOR THE UPDATE. Make sure to keep posting on every AppleTV thread, because we certainly care about your opinion.

I'm all for debate over the product, but it's SO TIRED. Every single AppleTV thread has turned into a debate over the worth of the product. It's always the same arguments, nothing new is ever said. I'm just so done with it. Isn't there a place for someone who doesn't care about the debate and just wants to discuss the news? I thought that was here.

At any rate, I called two local Apple stores and they told me they don't have them on the shelves yet. It's just after 1pm here. I'm guess we'll see them in a few days then. The anticipation is killing me.

I think those people are just annoyed that we haven't all boycotted it. They want us to agree that the same thing can be accomplished by connecting our laptops, or maybe they want us to agree that we don't want to do those things anyway.

I sent out a message to a friend who works at the local Apple store. He's going to let me know when they're going to be on the floor. And then I'm going to go there and play with it (or, more likely, join the crowd of people watching someone else play with it).
 
I've been reading a few posts going back and forth here and I think that some perspective needs to be maintained...

Hey newbie, thanks for being a smart***. Great way to start around here.

My point is that you don't need an :apple: TV to do any of the things you suggested. You can view those things on your computer screen, or you can hook your laptop to your TV if you really *must* have it in your living room instead of whatever room you keep your computer in.

You don't *need* a laptop or a TV, either.

Semantics aside, nobody here seems to have genuinely confused the AppleTV or any class of products remotely related to it as being on par with shelter, food or toilet paper.

Given that, the impetus for purchasing an AppleTV is based on the same kind of desirability, not necessity, factors as any other product that isn't strictly essential to survival in its simplest terms.

Knowing that, let's simply say you are an individual who likes to watch movies on your computer or you don't mind hooking up your laptop to your TV. I get that... and I get that you're not really who Apple's targeting with this product.

And your reference to the ipod is just oh-so-clever. Clearly, given that the ipod was wildly successful, everything else apple ever releases will be as well, even products that do entirely different things and target entirely different markets. (see? I can use sarcasm too! How impressive! :rolleyes: )

I happen to have a management background with an academic emphasis in marketing, and I'm presently a financial analyst so I'd like to speak to this...

iPod is successful for the same reasons AppleTV will be successful... because both are products that apply three principles:

1. Careful study of human use of technology - Apple puts extensive research into not just how we use technology, but how we naturally interact with non-technological items in the real world. Features such as scroll momentum in the iPhone aren't imitations of existing behaviors of technology, but physical behaviors in the real world that add layers of feedback into the design that the human experience expects from real-world objects.

2. Industrial design - The two most important words in Steve Jobs' vocabulary. Industrial design translates to form IS function. Very few companies get this right on the first try. Apple is one of them.

3. Customer input - Apple's product engineers on the edge of a new idea shape that idea into something useful by way of the feedback received on similar products. iPod is really an evolution of various technologies Apple already had in place, beginning with Quicktime, taking advantage of firewire (something they made standard on a PC before anyone else), giving mobility to iTunes and incorporating the UI in a way that makes the iPod a more elegant and therefore more usable solution than other MP3 players on the market.

And contrary to your assertion... the iPod and AppleTV are directly related... in that they are both devices that address the mobility and interconnectivity of media/content. The computer network, in this time of technological convergence, is becoming the ubiquitous backbone of home entertainment and AppleTV bridges the gap to the living room... That gap which you deem insignificant is actually the biggest hindrance to wider adoption of consumer purchasing of media over the internet.

Apple clearly paid attention to the market research that supports this from various financial analysts and tech research firms, as well as their own internal analysis of external feedback from ideas and feelers they put out before they bring new products/features to market... and their timing couldn't be more perfect, given the formidable growth of HDTV ownership this past year, the expansion of internet distributed content, decline in flexible-format media storage (HDD, flash, etc.) and increase in consumer demand for on-demand a-la carte content.

Don't talk to me about ipods. I had a 1st Gen before 95% of america knew what they were. My family and friends thought I was nuts, that I was taken by another apple product that nobody needed. I disagreed because the usefulness of the ipod, the need that it filled, was clear. The ipod filled a need that genuinely existed - people had been trying to carry large amounts of music with them for years, and it usually entailed a CD player and a big book of CDs.

And I wrote a research paper on the internet distribution of music and video in 1996, the same year I began recording and mastering professional audio on first generation Power Macs.

So there you are.

I don't see that usefulness or need here. I've never had the slightest desire to display album art during a party :)rolleyes: ), show my family photos on my tv, or blow up video podcasts on a big screen. I see the :apple: TV as a device that you're trying to think up uses for, not one that does things that people actually wished they could do prior to :apple: TV's existence.

That said, if you want to spend $300 to move content, which you already own, 2 rooms over, go ahead.


Well, let me offer that AppleTV didn't come about by throwing darts at a wall.

In fact, it is the result of Apple's 20+ years in digital multimedia, an effort that really began with the inclusion of 8 and then 16-bit sound in the Macintosh.

Since then, evolutions in product design have been leading up to today... Bernstein Research projects that TV episode downloads will expand to nearly 500 million in 2011 up from 41 million in 2005. Movie downloads are expected to grow to 213 million from 1.6 million in 2005 according to Adams Media Research.

How Apple came to the design of the AppleTV is a combination of external data as well as the field research of their own product engineers. I know a former product engineer from Apple. He explains that after Jobs' return, product engineers would put ideas before consumers, vendors, businesses, analysts, etc. which are often extensions of existing technology... to try to identify what they like, don't like, want to see, etc.

AppleTV is the kind of product that is the result of a combination of Apple's own ingenuity at redefining technology combined with some of this field data to help shape how that product took form. Again, not throwing darts at a wall.

The fact is, and research supports this, that a huge number of consumers want to be able to download movies and television episodes off the internet AND view them on their TV. Apple has developed a solution that bridges the gap in a simpler, more elegant fashion that appeals to the average consumer.

Now, I know that you're going to say "But connecting a computer to the TV isn't that hard"... I agree, but then I would consider myself quite technologically literate, and yet even I think this is not the most elegant solution. I would rather it be a wireless solution and in my case it's for some additional reasons the average guy might not have.

The average guy may find a wireless solution simply elegant. I find it also economical because I have not one but four computers, and content spread across them, across 500 gigabytes of collective hard disk storage over the network. I do not want to move these computers into my living room, thank you. I have a computer room and that is where my computers, external drives, peripherals, monitors, NTSC reference monitors, DAT decks, 24-channel audio I/O, synthesizers, and audio/video postproduction software resides.
 
The movie info is just a tag. You can use iTunes to modify most of it, some tags require the use of another program (eg Lostify). The games will be basic for now, you would just use the remote. At the Keynote, the album art was there when Steve was browsing his buddy's laptop.

One thing Mac Mini users are forgetting is that the @TV is designed to output video to a HDTV. You won't have to worry about the picture being cropped, miss-aligned, or converting from one interface to another. I think the overall picture quality from the @TV will surpass that of the Mac Mini.

I don't remember any coverflow album art when Steve was browsing his buddy's laptop, I only remember a list of TV shows. Someone tell me if I'm wrong but I think the only way you will have coverflow on ATV is to put music on the ATVs 40g HD. I hope Im wrong because I have 110g of music with album art that I will be streaming to my ATV and I would like coverflow, I'm just not thinking it will work that way.
 
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