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Apple TV Review by Walt Mossberg
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Apple has laid down the first brick in the construction of a glorious technologically advanced home with AppleTV. Today, AppleTV is not entirely useful. We see it as restricting. It has a lack of features. But in the future, Cable will die. Who would subscribe to cable if you can get all the shows you would ever want to watch on your computer and have them streamed to your TV? There are many advantages there. Like anything, this technology takes time to develop. Technology moves at the rate that people are willing to accept it. Right now, people are not comfortable with canceling their cable, nor is there really the resources out there that would make it beneficial (Apple does not offer ALL TV shows). But the iTMS will get cheaper and more reliable. AppleTV will be refined and more useful. And trust me, all of you will be glad Apple created this little device in 5 years. This is all about having our media accessible to us no matter where we are in the home. I stand by my opinion that the AppleTV is a great product from Apple and although not as important today, with time this will be a very, very useful piece of technology.
Lexicon, Phillips (pronto), Harmony, RTI, H&K, Crestron, UEI Nevo come instantly to mind as very good. Add Sony, Memorex and others less good ( but all likely to be more robust than Apple's) and you see my point.
But can it stream a DVD?
Does anyone know if you can put an actual dvd in your computer and stream it to
TV? It'd have more value to me if I could use my iMac's drive and get that dvd player off my tv.
*Apologies if this has been answered - too many posts to sift through at work
Does anyone know if you can put an actual dvd in your computer and stream it to
TV? It'd have more value to me if I could use my iMac's drive and get that dvd player off my tv.*Apologies if this has been answered - too many posts to sift through at work
I'm excited to see photos on my widescreen, with the whole family sitting in nice comfy chairs. Right now, my wife's family crowds around a laptop. Which sucks. Also, I have videos of trips and my kids that are available. My complete library of iTunes songs and videos is streamed to my living room. I also have and iTunes purchased movies and TV shows. I'm tired of buying DVDs that my kids destroy.
Mine should arrive tomorrow!
Gimme a break... Apple could have come up with something to make connecting the AppleTV easy, elegant and inexpensive... I'm no engineer but hows about a 'built in' HDCP compliant HDMI switcher so you can connect say.. Your DVD into the AppleTV and then the AppleTV gets to connect to the TV. If you wanna get really fancy it could even AUTO DETECT the video signal thats coming in from the DVD player and auto-switch to the DVD signal when present and back to the AppleTV signal when you turn the DVD player off (and the signal goes away).
Gee Mr. Wizard that sure sounds like MAGIC to ME!
Dave
Great idea, I want to pay for an HDMI switcher I have NO use for. Heck, 90% of US TVs and pre/pros and rcvrs don't even support HDMI .
Keep it simple and buy what else you need to make it work FOR YOU.
Gimme a break... Apple could have come up with something to make connecting the AppleTV easy, elegant and inexpensive... I'm no engineer but hows about a 'built in' HDCP compliant HDMI switcher so you can connect say.. Your DVD into the AppleTV and then the AppleTV gets to connect to the TV. If you wanna get really fancy it could even AUTO DETECT the video signal thats coming in from the DVD player and auto-switch to the DVD signal when present and back to the AppleTV signal when you turn the DVD player off (and the signal goes away).
Gee Mr. Wizard that sure sounds like MAGIC to ME!
Dave
I'll give you a break when you give me a break. Deal?
If this is such a trivial problem, then why hasn't anybody solved it yet? Why didn't Microsoft do it with the Xbox? Why haven't the cable box manufacturers done it? Why haven't the DVD player manufacturers done it? How about the TV manufacturers? So why complain about Apple not solving this problem, when nobody else has? Why is Apple, which has just released their first and so far only TV product, singled out for responsibility?
Incidentally, one of the first questions I asked an Apple rep on the floor at MWSF in January is if the Apple TV had an HDMI pass-through (though I'm not sure if this is even technically possible). So I certainly know about and am interested in the problem of limited video inputs. The difference is that I was not shocked, shocked, shocked when the Apple rep answered "no."
Don't be a goof!
What Apple NEEDED TO DO was make it so a user could REPLACE AN EXISTING DEVICE that was already using one of those valuable and it would seem limited connections.
How about throwing a dvd player in the freakin thing so I could replace my up-converting DVD player (problem solved) and for an 'upgraded unit for a few extra bucks' they could throw in a DVD-R so people could then replace any existing DVD recorder.
Why don't you list for me home many successful devices that require a quality connection to your HDTV. HD/BR etc DVD Player/recorder, Cable Box or TiVO & A game system.
Thats pretty much it - DVD, CABLE & GAME so TV makers have in most cases built TVs with 3 or 4 HD inputs (at the most)...
Now Apple rolls out a new box that can't in any way replace the functionality of any of the 'top 3 device categories' and yet they expect for it to be a success???
Apple shoulda thought this one out just a wee bit more...
Dave
LOL
Totally agree! Seriously guys, what does the CUSTOMER gain from buying an iTV? Absolutely nothing. It's a total sham. You're buying a very expensive box that basically does nothing but a slimmed down Remote-Desktop connection to play Apple's hugely overpriced content. Even more than getting an iTV for free, Apple should be paying us to use this thing.
If thats how you feel, i've got a great suggestion for you. DON'T BUY ONE!
There you go.
Problem solved.Alternative Setup
Hi all,
I was very interested in the TV when it was announced last fall as I (like many of you) was looking for a way to watch content that I created or purchased on my TV. I also wanted a way to put all my DVDs (a few hundred) onto a hard drive (as uncompressed VIDEO_TS folders) so I could put 'em in a box and store them out of site, as well as organize and browse my library easily (just like we all already do with iTunes).
After reviewing the TV specs it was apparent I was not going to enjoy this kind of flexibility, so I put together a system that I'd like to share with everyone here.
While it is very flexible, the notable disadvantage as compared to TV is that it is not wireless. I'm tethered to the Mac by a DVI cable.
I've added prices to components of this system that are either specific to this setup and/or would be covered by functionality in the TV.
20" iMac Core 2 Duo
External 300GB HD (connected via USB 2.0)
Epson Projector with DVI-D input (1024 x 768)
10 meter DVI cable ($90)
Apple Mini DV -> DVI-D adaptor ($20)
Equinux's MediaCentral software (Personal Pack - $30)
Elgato Systems' EyeTV Hybrid ($100 - MacWorld show price)
Mac The Ripper ($free)
Total Additional Cost: $240
The iMac recognizes the projector as part of the extended desktop. I simply drag over anything I want to watch on it (and set it to view full-screen). This way I can watch movies, tv shows, iPhoto slideshows, and iTunes coverflow & visualizer on the big screen.
I'm hopeful that the 802.11n Airport Extreme will be fast enough to stream SD DVD content from an attached HD.
Regards,
j
Hi all,
I was very interested in the
TV when it was announced last fall as I (like many of you) was looking for a way to watch content that I created or purchased on my TV. I also wanted a way to put all my DVDs (a few hundred) onto a hard drive (as uncompressed VIDEO_TS folders) so I could put 'em in a box and store them out of site, as well as organize and browse my library easily (just like we all already do with iTunes).After reviewing the
TV specs it was apparent I was not going to enjoy this kind of flexibility, so I put together a system that I'd like to share with everyone here.While it is very flexible, the notable disadvantage as compared to
TV is that it is not wireless. I'm tethered to the Mac by a DVI cable.I've added prices to components of this system that are either specific to this setup and/or would be covered by functionality in the
TV.20" iMac Core 2 Duo
External 300GB HD (connected via USB 2.0)
Epson Projector with DVI-D input (1024 x 768)
10 meter DVI cable ($90)
Apple Mini DV -> DVI-D adaptor ($20)
Equinux's MediaCentral software (Personal Pack - $30)
Elgato Systems' EyeTV Hybrid ($100 - MacWorld show price)
Mac The Ripper ($free)
Total Additional Cost: $240
The iMac recognizes the projector as part of the extended desktop. I simply drag over anything I want to watch on it (and set it to view full-screen). This way I can watch movies, tv shows, iPhoto slideshows, and iTunes coverflow & visualizer on the big screen.
I'm hopeful that the 802.11n Airport Extreme will be fast enough to stream SD DVD content from an attached HD.
Regards,
j
This has been debunked before. Apple TV requires an HDTV, it doesn't support composite video output, yet its limited to 720p. Walk into a Bestbuy or Circuitcity and see what TV's they're pushing.
The "majority" of TVs aren't HDTV at all. iTunes doesn't even have HDTV content, so you could argue that 720p is overkill. But they require you to have an HDTV by only having HDMI and progressive.
If you're going to require HDTV, you might as well support 1080p. I doubt that the Apple TV is powerful enough to support it.
I see and I don't see your point.
Yes, there are options out there, some are good some are lame, but if Apple can have a simple, yet powerful remote, why not? programming it by your Mac and with a bare bones OSX UI, could be really interesting.
If you don't want it, then don't buy it.
And who in their right minds would not buy whatever Best Buy or Circuit City are pushing?
We've already had several threads on 1080p vs. 720p. Not to repeat this debate, but let's put it this way: after reading these discussions, I've decided not to waste any of my dough on a 1080p TV, even if the retailers are pushing them.
You have really got to be kidding me at this point. Would you be willing to pay an additional $100-$150 for the box? Probably not. How is this even Apple's fault? They aren't putting a gun to your head, and most HDTVs now come with multiple HDMI and HD-component inputs, and I seriously doubt a lot of households have every single one of those filled.Gimme a break... Apple could have come up with something to make connecting the AppleTV easy, elegant and inexpensive... I'm no engineer but hows about a 'built in' HDCP compliant HDMI switcher so you can connect say.. Your DVD into the AppleTV and then the AppleTV gets to connect to the TV. If you wanna get really fancy it could even AUTO DETECT the video signal thats coming in from the DVD player and auto-switch to the DVD signal when present and back to the AppleTV signal when you turn the DVD player off (and the signal goes away).
Gee Mr. Wizard that sure sounds like MAGIC to ME!
Dave
I just love how lots of people in this thread want more functionality but say that it's too expensive in its current form. I'm glad Apple doesn't try to make a product to please everyone; if they tried that they would NEVER release anything, or it would cost a fortune.
I see and I don't see your point.
Yes, there are options out there, some are good some are lame, but if Apple can have a simple, yet powerful remote, why not? programming it by your Mac and with a bare bones OSX UI, could be really interesting.
If you don't want it, then don't buy it.
It is a huge undertaking to support a universal remote. Harmony supports Mac online programming already and has invested millions in cataloging IR codes for thousands of devices and writing a simple software program to assist customers.
Go up into the Pronto, Crestron and Lexicon models and you're talking very serious programming talent required.
Your "don't want it, don't buy it" comment makes little sense (in my view anyway) here because you are asking Apple to dump millions of dollars into a area of products already well saturated with good gear and compete against them in their core competency. I think it's a bad idea. No way they'll invest enough to match the products out there already. Heck, spend the $$ on a dediciated HT based computer..
Oh, wow. Mossberg gives glowing and rave reviews of every single major Apple product there is, but then gives a negative review about their.... mouse.
I like Apple as much as anyone on these forums, but I would still wait for reviews from someone else than Mossberg. Reason being that Mossberg always gives Apple good reviews. His comments regarding the Mighty Mouse does not change that.
I agree that
TV is the cornerstone in a greater structure soon to be errected. I diagree, however, that the iTS is a total solution to cable/sattelite. For one, 50% of the time, when I want to plop down to watch TV, I don't have a certain show I want to watch. I want to channel surf. There is not a equivalent function for this, yet, on the iTS. If, however, Apple had a subscription model, the iTS would be a whole lot more alluring than cable.I still agree that there's much more to come out of
TV.-Clive
Name the categories of devices for me...
------------------------------------
Catagory 1 - Movie Player & TV Recorder ability
DVD / DVDR / VHS / BluRay / HD-DVD etc...
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
Catagory 2 - TV Tuning / DVR ability
Cable box, tivo, satellite, fios, etc
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
Catagory 3 - Game System
xbox, sony, nintendo, etc
------------------------------------
These THREE categories have been the NORM since the days of the 1st VCR and the first tv pong system. Most TVs are made with this in mind and except for the ultra inexpensive TV makers usually provide for ONE of EACH of those CATEGORIES to be connected.
If you have devices that DON'T fit into one of the above then I'd sure like to hear em.. but I'll tell you this much they DO NOT sell all that well.
Now as I said - TVs are made with this in mind. If you want to be able to connect MULTIPLES of those devices you either have to sacrifice your ability to use one or more of the 'other' devices so you'll have a connection available... OR buy a more expensive TV with more inputs OR buy one type of switcher or another (and yea you can opt to use your receiver that gives you 6 HD CONNECTIONS and allows you to switch between them **BUT** if your looking at getting a receiver that can SWITCH 6 HDMI connections then (last I looked) your SOL (or if one has come out expect to be paying upwards of 2 or 3 thousand bucks!
If you want a receiver that just does component and doesn't do ANY HDMI (kiss any HDMI/HDCP components goodbye) then for a 6 input unit I'd say you would be paying somewhere between 500 and 1000.
Mixed support HDMI/Component usually run in the $1,500 range.
Expecting someone who has a HDTV with a DVD & XBox to have to resort to such options (and complexities) not to mention the cost just to add an AppleTV is utterly insane.
I can't see how you don't see that?
Dave
And fact remains, that 1070p would cost them more, while giving very limited things in return. 1070p will be a niche for years to come. 720p is the dominant standard for quite some time. You are basically asking Apple to invest money to cater to a niche. A growing niche, yes, but still a niche. It simply would not make any sense.
I don't see AppleTV becoming obsolete for at least five years. And when 1070p becomes dominant, it would still work just fine with AppleTV. So what's the problem here?
question
this question is for someone who has a sdtv and is trying to connect it to the itv does it work? if yes how does it look?
this question is for someone who has a sdtv and is trying to connect it to the itv does it work? if yes how does it look?
Your "don't want it, don't buy it" comment makes little sense (in my view anyway) here because you are asking Apple to dump millions of dollars into a area of products already well saturated with good gear and compete against them in their core competency. I think it's a bad idea. No way they'll invest enough to match the products out there already. Heck, spend the $$ on a dediciated HT based computer..
I am not asking Apple to do anything, I am just making a suggestion on a rumors site!
Why no DivX
When it comes to the big picture, DivX doesn't matter at all. Not at all. Basically some people have a bunch of cobbled together solutions before this sort of product (playing your media on a TV) got standardized. Henry Ford wasn't worried about supporting your homemade motor when he mass produced the automobile for the general consumer*. Why would Apple pay money for a DivX license when there is virtually no legal Divx content sources and less than 1% of their potential buyers are using it?
Why no DVD player
This product is meant to replace DVDs, not your DVD player. If Apple's goal is to completely take content distribution away from physical discs, why would they put something to encourage their competition in their own box? How would they justify removing the DVD component in future revisions?
Remotes and inputs
Any consumer electronics device faces the problem of adding yet another remote and taking more of your TV's inputs. Hasn't seemed to stop the videogame consoles from rapid success.
Not enough iTunes content
More and higher Def iTunes content is obviously the goal. But how do you justify high def content when people are watching most of their videos on an iPod? You give them a way to watch it in their living room. The Apple TV is necessary to expand ITMS content, not the other way around
No High Def Content means Nobody will Buy It
People watch 480i/480p DVDs on their HDTVs all the time. Just look at the Blu-ray/HD DVD sales numbers and realize that the vast majority of people are sticking with 480p. If having less than 1080p or even 720p content was really a deal breaker, the DVD market would have crashed already.
This product is just like an iPod. Do you think the ITMS would be where it is with music WITHOUT the iPod? Hell no. Remember that the ITMS came AFTER the iPod was introduced. The ITMS needs a similar device for video to push the content forward. This, like the 1st gen iPod is a product that does nothing new, but does it in a more standardized, simple, and easy to use way. It's chicken vs. egg and Apple just made a chicken. Now we wait for the egg.
*please don't take this analogy too literally... I know there is a lot of baggage with standardized parts and models and such.
When it comes to the big picture, DivX doesn't matter at all. Not at all. Basically some people have a bunch of cobbled together solutions before this sort of product (playing your media on a TV) got standardized. Henry Ford wasn't worried about supporting your homemade motor when he mass produced the automobile for the general consumer*. Why would Apple pay money for a DivX license when there is virtually no legal Divx content sources and less than 1% of their potential buyers are using it?
Why no DVD player
This product is meant to replace DVDs, not your DVD player. If Apple's goal is to completely take content distribution away from physical discs, why would they put something to encourage their competition in their own box? How would they justify removing the DVD component in future revisions?
Remotes and inputs
Any consumer electronics device faces the problem of adding yet another remote and taking more of your TV's inputs. Hasn't seemed to stop the videogame consoles from rapid success.
Not enough iTunes content
More and higher Def iTunes content is obviously the goal. But how do you justify high def content when people are watching most of their videos on an iPod? You give them a way to watch it in their living room. The Apple TV is necessary to expand ITMS content, not the other way around
No High Def Content means Nobody will Buy It
People watch 480i/480p DVDs on their HDTVs all the time. Just look at the Blu-ray/HD DVD sales numbers and realize that the vast majority of people are sticking with 480p. If having less than 1080p or even 720p content was really a deal breaker, the DVD market would have crashed already.
This product is just like an iPod. Do you think the ITMS would be where it is with music WITHOUT the iPod? Hell no. Remember that the ITMS came AFTER the iPod was introduced. The ITMS needs a similar device for video to push the content forward. This, like the 1st gen iPod is a product that does nothing new, but does it in a more standardized, simple, and easy to use way. It's chicken vs. egg and Apple just made a chicken. Now we wait for the egg.
*please don't take this analogy too literally... I know there is a lot of baggage with standardized parts and models and such.
You have really got to be kidding me at this point. Would you be willing to pay an additional $100-$150 for the box? Probably not. How is this even Apple's fault? They aren't putting a gun to your head, and most HDTVs now come with multiple HDMI and HD-component inputs, and I seriously doubt a lot of households have every single one of those filled.
I just love how lots of people in this thread want more functionality but say that it's too expensive in its current form. I'm glad Apple doesn't try to make a product to please everyone; if they tried that they would NEVER release anything, or it would cost a fortune.
End of story...
1 - Most HDTV in the home have 3 or less Comonent and/or HDMI connections.
2 - Most people have a Cable Box (using input #1) and some type of up-converting DVD player using input #2 with connection #3 going to a game box (if you have kids in the house)
Game over Apple looses....
And as to me willing to pay and extra $150 for my feature request... Sorry it wouldn't cost anywhere near that and lets pretend it does... Yea I'd be willing to pay it since a POS manual HDMI switcher will cost me over 80 bucks and a *marginally usable* universal remote will cost me another 150 bucks.
Yea to have an elegant no switch control necessary solution it would be worth your fictional $150 bucks. To be a little more realistic it shouldn't cost anywhere near that but instead closer to 10% or 15% of that cost (especially in the volumes apple is dealing with).
Dave
They'd also have to deal with all the tech support calls when not all of their devices work with the switch right thanks to incomplete or incorrect implementation of HDMI/HDCP in some devices.
Agreed
Yes Agree -- I am so sick of $100 per month cable/satellite or $25 month "Subscription" rentals -- I am so sick of 99¢ grocery store rentals where I then screw up and pay a $10 late fee.
I say bring it on -- computer download ONLY way that makes sense for me.
I am done with Netflix, Blockbuster, etc etc etc.
I'll take my $40 DSL or Cable (I have both in my design studio) and buy what I want, when I want it.
Yes Agree -- I am so sick of $100 per month cable/satellite or $25 month "Subscription" rentals -- I am so sick of 99¢ grocery store rentals where I then screw up and pay a $10 late fee.
I say bring it on -- computer download ONLY way that makes sense for me.
I am done with Netflix, Blockbuster, etc etc etc.
I'll take my $40 DSL or Cable (I have both in my design studio) and buy what I want, when I want it.