Apple TV to Gain Game Support With Bluetooth Controllers By March

[prowlmedia]

Vita tanked but the 3DS didn't tank, look at the numbers. And both have digital distribution.

Best selling game of 2013 = GTA 5. +$200M budget, 29M copies sold at $60 a copy, something like $2B revenue

Even with success nobody's hitting that type of return at $1.99. All they get is they're now the best selling screwdriver at the dollar store

The analogy is pointless. It Depends if you are talk in percentage return. Angry birds and countless others blows that out of the park. Sure we are talking about the best selling games in any given market here... but how many tripleA games tank and best are offset against a good seller or at worst take
the studio with them, cos there are plenty of crap Console games. I've played some mobile games for far longer than some xBox games.

But I am all for quality games and people will pay for them but as I keep saying you are not going to get GTA5 on the ATV cos the hardware is not up to it yet and the storage needed for levels, graphics, audio etc. so you jet cannot compare these markets at all.

 

[apolloa]

XCOM?
Infinity Blade?
Grand Theft Auto?
Baldur's Gate?
Angry Birds?

...etc. plenty of quality games for casual gamers, which is what any apple gaming will be aimed at.

Call Of Duty Series
The Last of Us
Uncharted Series
Halo Series
Forza Series
Gran Turismo series
Battlefield series
Gears Of War Series
FULL versions of Need For Speed series
Witcher games
Bioshock series
Tomb Raider series (All of them)
GTA Series (All of them)
Metal Gear Solid series
Little Big Planet series
Super Stardust series
All of the Resident Evil series
The Elder Scrolls series
Xcom also (All of them)
Mass Effect series
Dark Souls series
Portal 2
Red Dead Redemption
Proper free roaming massive world Assassin's Creed series
Proper free roaming massive world Borderlands series

Xbox Arcade games
PSN Store indie games

And that's but a tiny tiny tiny tiny selection and I didn't even mention any Nintendo games.

As for the casual gamers, they seem to pretty much play Battlefield of Call Of Duty with their mates. They also play other childrens games with their kids. All on a console.

 

[bozzykid]

At the price point of an iPad, might as well buy Kindle Fire.
At the price point of an iMac, might as well buy a Dell.
At the price point of an iPhone, might as well buy an Android,

That is a bad comparison considering none of those cheaper products are measurably better than the more expensive one. But comparing an XBox One to an under powered Apple TV would be a hard sell to potential customers looking for a gaming machine.

 

[Menel]

That is a bad comparison considering none of those cheaper products are measurably better than the more expensive one. But comparing an XBox One to an under powered Apple TV would be a hard sell to potential customers looking for a gaming machine.

They both have history of being hacked and compromising users.

Neither of them have access to iTunes in the cloud.
Neither of them sync save games to iPhone and iPad.
Neither can browse shared photostreams.

There might be more. But both xbox and ps4 are so uninteresting I haven't looked into them deeper.

 

[Karma*Police]

Can we then get away from that horrible remote?

Another example of form over function.

I love the remote. It's so incredibly simple. That's the function; just pick it up and start using it. I know almost 10 people who have Apple TV and I haven't heard a single complaint outside of these forums.

 

[garylapointe]

OMG this is soooo not happening...the current SINGLE CORE A5 chip in the Apple TV can barely stream 1080p, it is not capable of gaming.

We had great games on the A5 on the iPhone 4s and iPad 2 although those were probably not single-core, but the single core A4 on the iPhone 4 had a lot of great games and that was single-core with half the L2 cache and an older GPU. I'm not sure what the Apple TV is clocked at, but I'm under the impression some of the iOS devices were clocked slower to save battery life (not an issue for Apple TV that doesn't use batteries).

I would think I could use my iPhone or iPad as a controller too; at least for some basic games.

Streaming video isn't just a function of hardware, it's a function of your network and your carriers network too.

Gary

 

[apolloa]

They both have history of being hacked and compromising users.

Neither of them have access to iTunes in the cloud.
Neither of them sync save games to iPhone and iPad.
Neither can browse shared photostreams.

There might be more. But both xbox and ps4 are so uninteresting I haven't looked into them deeper.

They both have their own versions of iTunes, and considering one is Sony they also have massive catalogues.
They both support Netflix and BlinkBox etc as well as their own online streaming services. And these are priced the same as, or less the iTunes.

Why would they want to sync game saves with an iPhone or iPad?
And seeing as they can BOTH access the internet then they can stream photos fine.

I suggest you DO look into them more before making claims about them.

 

[Liquorpuki]

The analogy is pointless. It Depends if you are talk in percentage return. Angry birds and countless others blows that out of the park. Sure we are talking about the best selling games in any given market here... but how many tripleA games tank and best are offset against a good seller or at worst take
the studio with them, cos there are plenty of crap Console games. I've played some mobile games for far longer than some xBox games.

But I am all for quality games and people will pay for them but as I keep saying you are not going to get GTA5 on the ATV cos the hardware is not up to it yet and the storage needed for levels, graphics, audio etc. so you jet cannot compare these markets at all.

There are crap games on every platform. My point isn't that AAA doesn't fail, it's that you'll never see AAA on mobile because the economics don't work

Here's a return comparison:
Rovio pulled $200M revenue in 2012. That's after releasing 4 Angry Birds games and having almost half their revenue come from stuff like T-Shirts and toys. This is your token iOS success story
Meanwhile Rockstar/TTWO spent more than $200M just to develop and market GTA5. They pulled in 2B worth of revenue. Off 1 game. Without relying on T-Shirts and toys

You wanna know why Rovio's now spending more time making an Angry Birds movie than developing games, there's your answer. Also explains why Rovio still won't go public after having talked about it for 2 years

Another return comparison:
Minecraft Pocket Edition = 33 million copies @ $6.99 on iOS / Android = $231M revenue
Pokemon X/Y = 9M copies @ $39.99 on the uneconomical dying 3DS = $347M revenue

NTDOY predicted a $240M annual loss. The difference between red/black for them right now is literally the success of one game

 

[iZac]

A Plex app and a slow trickle of ports of my favourite iPad games to the aTV would make me delighted. I know they'll try to charge a small premium for having to retool their games for the aTV, but I'd happily pay it because it makes the TV so much more accessible than having my mac plugged into it 24/7.

It’s been a good news day today and for me this is by far the best rumour to surface in a while.

Some more video games trailers to put on GamesTV app then, good
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/games-tv-your-personal-selection/id741293775?mt=8

I guess they will have better luck than with the Pippin

As long as I can download Marathon (I know there is already an iOS port), then it's already a winner to me!

 

[Z400Racer37]

they are console quality -- just not current-generation console quality. that you will not see, as these are generalist hardware devices, not dedicated gaming consoles.

Hardware evolves, its a matter of time. Especially if they make a full blows TV set at some point. Plenty of room for some powerful silicon in there.

 

[WilliamLondon]

- It would use the App Store infrastructure already in place.
- Should be pretty straight forward for devs to port games because of familiarity with Xcode/ios
- games can support iCloud saves across all devices
- 'Universal' games could mean buy once play on any iOS device.

Yes. One concern people have is the storage on the ATV, but I'm wondering if that is a real concern. What I mean is that the ATV is a home device, connected to a home network - although there would be some lag uploading an app to the ATV, it's possible, no? The games could be stored (on current and older ATVs without any additional storage that *might* come with a new ATV model) on the home network and streamed to the ATV to play?? Just wondering.

Regardless, whether has to buy a new ATV (omg, $99 and it plays all the games I already own?!) or it works with current ATVs, an app store for the ATV is so logical I still can't believe it's not happened before now.

 

[Bill Killer]

Maybe but look at the hardware behind it and the cost of that hardware:

• XBOX One + Forza: $620
• Apple TV + Real Racing 3: $99

You get what you pay for. The benefit of AAA titles is that they sell consoles. The Last of Us? GTA V? Uncharted? Assassin's Creed? Those are worth paying extra for because the experience is far more rewarding on home consoles & PC than on an iPhone.

And Nintendo, given its cash reserves, would be absolutely foolish for them to license their titles. Nintendo doesn't have an all-in-one system like Microsoft and Sony do to sell the entire living room system. All they have are their first party titles. You give Apple some of those titles, you destroy your own hardware sales. The 3DS is a cash cow, and it would not be if Pokemon, Mario, and Zelda were on iOS.

Nor would they be nearly as good, because touchscreen gaming is awful compared to a controller.

 

[peterdevries]

You get what you pay for. The benefit of AAA titles is that they sell consoles. The Last of Us? GTA V? Uncharted? Assassin's Creed? Those are worth paying extra for because the experience is far more rewarding on home consoles & PC than on an iPhone.

There are different market segments for everything. I don't dispute that AAA console games are more advanced and will probably always be superior to other gaming environments. My point is that there IS a gigantic market for simple casual games such as the iOS environment provides (Angry Bids etc.). The quality of the games on that environment is rapidly increasing though and they have the benefit of playing everywhere and maybe soon also at home on the TV. As yet, none of the other systems is able to provide that feature.

And Nintendo, given its cash reserves, would be absolutely foolish for them to license their titles. Nintendo doesn't have an all-in-one system like Microsoft and Sony do to sell the entire living room system. All they have are their first party titles. You give Apple some of those titles, you destroy your own hardware sales. The 3DS is a cash cow, and it would not be if Pokemon, Mario, and Zelda were on iOS.

Yeah yeah, the cash reserves. I keep hearing that over and over, but it doesn't mean anything. Investors in Nintendo do not allow this situation to continue. That is the reason why Nintendo this week went on the record to say they are looking at other options such as licensing. Nintendo needs to act pro-actively in the market. It won't do any good for the company eating up its cash reserves hoping that they will get a hit if they continue with the current strategy. Whatever people may think about investors, they call the shots because they own the company and its cash reserves.

Nor would they be nearly as good, because touchscreen gaming is awful compared to a controller.

You are assuming that a hypothetical Apple TV would not have a controller. It might very well get that. In addition you are assuming that everyone should feel the same, whereas hundreds of millions are quite happy to play touchscreen games.

 

[Tech198]

Neat...

Just another way to fit in to the xBox one market and PS4 type consoles...

However, these days, isn't everything becoming too integrated. ??

At which point does it all become, too complicated, and u'd be better off with doing the same thing with "two separate" devices.

Good idea, but i can't see myself playing games on a TV, I'll have too switch off Netflix...

Apple hasn't thought ahead very far.....to think of everything here... Either that, or 'integration of everything" is becoming cool, but also unnecessary.

In 3 words. lack of imagination because no one can add new stuff they start having to build onto existing stuff while making our lives a nightmare.

And Apple says its all simple... not any more it ain't

 

[ncollingridge]

If I were Apple I would be ASHAMED to call the AppleTV a hobby. It is more an occasional pastime. Anyone who had a hobby that they paid as little commitment to as this would be laughed at. They are neglecting it shamefully, although being Apple they can still recover from their woeful position if they come out with a killer new version.

One very big example of hgow rubbish the platform is compared to the offerings of other "hobbyists" is that here in the UK the AppleTV is the ONLY streaming platform that doesn't even have BBC iPlayer on it. The BBC are such tarts they will implement iPlayer on anything that works (it's their remit to make their content as widely available as possible), but it isn't on AppleTV.

That's not to mention ITV Player, 4OD and Demand 5 - all of which are also widely available and make a large proportion of UK TV content available over the net - NOW for those that want it.

I bought a Sky NowTV box yesterday for £25 (about $42). It is a re-badged Roku box with bundled content and it has a bunch of streaming apps including BBC iPlayer, 4OD and Demand5, along with all of the Sky stuff. It is very good - certainly the UI is fast and straightforward and it supports all the Roku apps as well. It is under a third of the AppleTV price and frankly I will use it more just because it supports BBC iPlayer.

Come on, Apple, get with the game and take the hobby as seriously as any hobbyist should.

My recipe:

1. App store
2. Support for games controllers (even though I don't play games on TV)
3. Faster box to provide modern gaming experience as part of next upgrade

The app store is the key - it will permit all of the streaming apps to arrive and more particularly what I would like to see is the ability to support devices like the ElGato Netstream so that it can incorporate terrestrial broadcast TV (and DVR), which is very much alive and kicking still in the UK.

 

[babaroga73]

I think Apple would just be cannibalizing itself here. I don't see people leaving a Vita/3DS/Wii for this but rather just putting down their iPhone and using the ATV instead. But just my opinion.

Remember 2007? People were just fine with their motorolas, nokias and WinCEs ... This were awesome phones!! ... along came iPhone.

That's what this news is all about. Just wait and see.

And to me (and to all the ps4, xbox fans) - I really don't care how much pixel shaders or mills of polygon my game has.

 

[peterdevries]

Neat...

Just another way to fit in to the xBox one market and PS4 type consoles...

However, these days, isn't everything becoming too integrated. ??

At which point does it all become, too complicated, and u'd be better off with doing the same thing with "two separate" devices.

Good idea, but i can't see myself playing games on a TV, I'll have too switch off Netflix...

That is one real challenge. There are not many organisations that will be able to pull true integration off without it becoming complicated. It should be so simple that you don't need to think about it becoming a hassle.

Apple hasn't thought ahead very far.....to think of everything here... Either that, or 'integration of everything" is becoming cool, but also unnecessary.

In 3 words. lack of imagination because no one can add new stuff they start having to build onto existing stuff while making our lives a nightmare.

And Apple says its all simple... not any more it ain't

Apple is one of the few companies that is working towards this and has the hardware and software environments controlled in a a way that they can pull this off. In that sense they are more oriented towards the future than you say. They are not there yet. I agree on that, but the airplay system works extremely well across all devices and Apple is scrambling for usability parity between its online and software based iOS and OS X offerings such as iWorks, Email, Reminders etc.

It is clearly visible that Apple is setting its products up to become more and better integrated. Contrast this with other providers that have a host of hardware products but neglect to think beforehand of the integration issues that might arise further down the road once the software catches up.

----------

If I were Apple I would be ASHAMED to call the AppleTV a hobby. It is more an occasional pastime. Anyone who had a hobby that they paid as little commitment to as this would be laughed at. They are neglecting it shamefully, although being Apple they can still recover from their woeful position if they come out with a killer new version.

You have absoluetly no idea what Apple is doing currently to develop the Apple TV. Like with the Mac Pro, they might come out this year with a massively overhauled device that is different from any other device out there. No-one knows. Just because we don't see the product doesn't mean they are not working on it.

What Apple has been doing is very prudent. They said they see it as a hobby to manage expectations.

 

[TWSS37]

Remember 2007? People were just fine with their motorolas, nokias and WinCEs ... This were awesome phones!! ... along came iPhone.

That's what this news is all about. Just wait and see.

And to me (and to all the ps4, xbox fans) - I really don't care how much pixel shaders or mills of polygon my game has.

Again, all I am saying is a market exists already for this in an iteration that would only be drawing from it's own populace...

 

[Tech198]

I think Apple would just be cannibalizing itself here. I don't see people leaving a Vita/3DS/Wii for this but rather just putting down their iPhone and using the ATV instead. But just my opinion.

You may be right...

Apple TV is limited mind you just like iOS is....

My sense it opens the Apple TV up more than is does now, which isn't bad, but to me, the other "consoles" wins, hands down.

FYI.... I don't think you can ever expect the Apple TV to become a console even WITH controller, based on how many games on the app store, vs world wide, its just a spec on the earth.

I could be wrong, but if a walled garden can never compete with PS4, Xbox, especially when it come to GPU, unless ATV has a big surprise in store with a better graphics chip than either of these.

 

[prowlmedia]

There are crap games on every platform. My point isn't that AAA doesn't fail, it's that you'll never see AAA on mobile because the economics don't work

Here's a return comparison:
Rovio pulled $200M revenue in 2012. That's after releasing 4 Angry Birds games and having almost half their revenue come from stuff like T-Shirts and toys. This is your token iOS success story
Meanwhile Rockstar/TTWO spent more than $200M just to develop and market GTA5. They pulled in 2B worth of revenue. Off 1 game. Without relying on T-Shirts and toys

You wanna know why Rovio's now spending more time making an Angry Birds movie than developing games, there's your answer. Also explains why Rovio still won't go public after having talked about it for 2 years

Another return comparison:
Minecraft Pocket Edition = 33 million copies @ $6.99 on iOS / Android = $231M revenue
Pokemon X/Y = 9M copies @ $39.99 on the uneconomical dying 3DS = $347M revenue

NTDOY predicted a $240M annual loss. The difference between red/black for them right now is literally the success of one game

You are really confusing matters here.

1. There is no ATV console yet. So we don't know how the economics will work
2. AAA is utterly different on every platform.
3. File size is basically what makes an AAA game ( and lots of work of course )
4. If a game engine works on the device they can easily port that game to iOS so long as it's capable and works. Unreal engine can do this and so can Unity.

You may not get a AAA iOS only game perhaps... but ports - yes. Again file size is king, now how can I work a dollar store analogy in to that...

 

[Liquorpuki]

You are really confusing matters here.

1. There is no ATV console yet. So we don't know how the economics will work
2. AAA is utterly different on every platform.
3. File size is basically what makes an AAA game ( and lots of work of course )
4. If a game engine works on the device they can easily port that game to iOS so long as it's capable and works. Unreal engine can do this and so can Unity.

You may not get a AAA iOS only game perhaps... but ports - yes. Again file size is king, now how can I work a dollar store analogy in to that...

We don't know the economics but we can predict...
Apple maintains 2 software ecosystems w/ different economics
1 - OSX, x86, value of software preserved by multiple distribution channels
2 - iOS, ARM, software commoditized to low pricepoints b/c only 1 crowded distribution channel
Unless Apple is gonna stick an x86 chip in the next AppleTV and turn it into a Steambox, it's a safe bet they're gonna stick with ARM. Along with ARM comes the app store and commodity economics

AAA is defined by budget, not filesize. Filesize correlates with budget though. My point is so does quality. If Apple wants to take over handheld/console markets, they have to create an ecosystem that will match handheld/console game quality - the pinnacle which is AAA supported by $40/$60 pricepoints. All they have right now is a budget ecosystem with budget pricepoints that can barely support anything outside of freemium games.

 

[haravikk]

I'm glad to hear it, as other than the controller it doesn't really require anything complex in terms of hardware. In fact I'll be surprised if there's actually a controller, as they could just as easily let you use an iOS device as a controller via an app, though I suppose a proper controller will help get more users.

I think that good interaction with iOS devices will be a key to this succeeding though; the ability to use an iPhone or iPad as an extra screen, or with more complex touch-based interaction could make for some great games, especially for multiplayer. Okay, so that's kind of what the WiiU does and it's not doing desperately well, but with a "bring your own iDevice" style it might just be easier to get people to effectively bring their controllers. Allow people to carry their gaming profile to and from a friend's house and things could stack together nicely.

I'm expecting this'll be accompanied by a hardware update, but I'm hoping they'll still allow at least current Apple TVs to play games as well, even if they'll be more modest overall.

 

[Carl Sagan]

I can see why Apple TV gaming hasn't taken off. Tried AirPlay mirroring today and it was awful. Laggy and unresponsive as hell!

 

[TWSS37]

You may be right...

Apple TV is limited mind you just like iOS is....

My sense it opens the Apple TV up more than is does now, which isn't bad, but to me, the other "consoles" wins, hands down.

FYI.... I don't think you can ever expect the Apple TV to become a console even WITH controller, based on how many games on the app store, vs world wide, its just a spec on the earth.

I could be wrong, but if a walled garden can never compete with PS4, Xbox, especially when it come to GPU, unless ATV has a big surprise in store with a better graphics chip than either of these.

Well to be fair, the apple tv is just as much of a walled garden as xbox or ps or nintendo; they're all closed source systems. But to your point, yes, it would be naive to think the horsepower of what apple tv could put out at a $100 price point would not be able to compete with a true console. That's why I consider this "mobile" gaming on a TV and question the audience.

 

[Carl Sagan]

Well to be fair, the apple tv is just as much of a walled garden as xbox or ps or nintendo; they're all closed source systems. But to your point, yes, it would be naive to think the horsepower of what apple tv could put out at a $100 price point would not be able to compete with a true console. That's why I consider this "mobile" gaming on a TV and question the audience.

Cloud gaming could easily equal the current gen in power. What they need is a mass consumer base with fast net connections. The Apple TV puck doesn't need to be some high powered device to make that happen...