Apple TV's Estimated Market Share Declines as Customers Await Highly-Anticipated 4K Model

cardfan

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Most consumers don't understand 4k, have no clue on HDR, and generally are ignorant. I don't think they're waiting for 4k apple tv. Although Apple's move to 4k will help a lot in this regard and help increase demand for it.

I have an xbox S for 4k right now but I still find myself switching to 1080p apple tv a lot because of better UI, airplay, and some of the apps are better. Yes, a 4k Apple tv will duplicate much of what I already have, but there's also 4k itunes store, hopefully better airplay, and hopefully better integration with iphone especially playing 4k video taken from iphone. Still need that xbox for blu ray player tho.

There's not a ton of content. 4k streaming isn't game changing (you notice HDR moreso) and you need the bandwidth. Blu ray is the biggest noticeable change but I'd guess only a small fraction are actually renting/buying 4k hdr blurays.
 
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palmerc

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Why it didn't have 4K in 2015 was ridiculous. I went from an Apple TV user, to a Amazon Fire user because of it.
Because 4K doesn't represent a very large segment of the market (34 million TVs in the US as of 2017) and the 4K support and content out there is pretty terrible. Even if you have a 4K TV in the US you're still unlikely to be watching 4K content.
[doublepost=1503567771][/doublepost]I'm getting a 4K Apple TV the day it arrives. My 4K TV has built-in Android TV and it is TERRIBLE.

The UI is bad, unremovable bloatware, no apps to install, Netflix 4K pops and skips. Seriously, I can't imagine someone shipped this ****.
 
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George Bailey

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You claim customers are awaiting a 4K TV, yet provide no evidence of such. I have a hard time believing average consumers have 4K capable TVs, care about 4K, let alone are even conscious of it...

TV is lower on the totem pole because it's higher priced.
I'm one. I can't wait. And it's higher priced because Apple, but also because it's much more powerful. Along with 4K it will be a quite capable gaming machine. Apple will also have an official game controller, and you'll start to see ports of many previously console-only games.
 
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palmerc

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One feature I'm hoping arrives with 4K Apple TV is that the GPUs on the device are leveraged to perform machine learning tasks on behalf of your other iCloud connected devices.
 

thekeyring

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I don't think it's hard to be a leader in this category. The question is: why does Apple refuse to up the mantle?
Agreed.

There seems to be a few pieces of "low hanging fruit" which Apple has yet to do anything about.

1) If Netflix, which was tiny compared to what it is now, and practically invisible when compared to a company with Apple's resources, could start a streaming service for video, why can't Apple?

2) Bringing the TV app to the rest of the world, and ensuring it works with the major streaming services in each country.

3) Improve the remote: if I want to move it from my sofa, I keep accidentally touching it and nearly ruining whatever we're watching. Plus, I can never tell which way up it is in low light.
 

vmistery

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I wonder what chip it will have inside? The old AppleTV and the HomePod have an A8 which presumably won't cut it so will it have an A9 or A10? I can't see it going straight to an A11 myself as it is probably too new and expensive.
 

cardfan

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Agreed.

There seems to be a few pieces of "low hanging fruit" which Apple has yet to do anything about.

1) If Netflix, which was tiny compared to what it is now, and practically invisible when compared to a company with Apple's resources, could start a streaming service for video, why can't Apple?

2) Bringing the TV app to the rest of the world, and ensuring it works with the major streaming services in each country.

3) Improve the remote: if I want to move it from my sofa, I keep accidentally touching it and nearly ruining whatever we're watching. Plus, I can never tell which way up it is in low light.
1. You may as well ask if Apple could do an iphone, why can't microsoft? Give credit to netflix. That'll never be Apple.

2. Can't say I care.

3. Agree. I don't use Siri at all with apple tv because I don't use that remote. I'm spoiled with a Harmony remote and have been for years. But it could be done much better.
 
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spice weasel

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Apple needs to:
1) Drastically lower the price of the Apple TV to be more in line with its competitors. Ditch most of the memory - hardly anyone is filling up their units with games. Most people just download the streaming apps they use.
2) Fix Siri so that it actually works and does things that people expect of it
3) Fix the ATV4 remote. It sucks. It's slippery to grab and hold and it's difficult to tell with a quick glance which way is up. I have lost count of how many times I grabbed it the wrong way or had it slip in my hand. Inevitably I graze the touchpad portion and end up fast forwarding or rewinding or stopping the stream of whatever I was watching.
 

gnipgnop

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I prefer the method of playing the movie on my iPAD with a webcam facing it, then streamed to an app running my TV. I could do that - but if I want an easier life, and not be a dick, I buy an Apple TV! /s
You can either stream to a device that's connected to the TV or play directly from a device that's connected to the TV. Those are the only two options available for any company that makes external hardware. Not really sure what your complaint about Apple actually is. They provide both the streaming hardware (more expensive) and the direct connection hardware (less expensive). You're not limited to the streaming option.
[doublepost=1503584007][/doublepost]
I wonder what chip it will have inside? The old AppleTV and the HomePod have an A8 which presumably won't cut it so will it have an A9 or A10? I can't see it going straight to an A11 myself as it is probably too new and expensive.
My guess would be an A10 Fusion variant, as that's been in production for a year now and could become the low-end chip within the phone lineup if the 7s has an updated A10 and the 8 uses the A11. That would certainly be a boost for the app side of the Apple TV, as well as the 4K support.
 
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NinjaHERO

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I have my 4K Roku and it works great. Been waiting for Apple to get to 4K and make a better remote. The current AppleTV remote is a joke.
 

kiranmk2

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I would also guess an A10-level chip but given Apple are still using the A8 for new products (HomePod) I do wonder whether they will cheap out and use the A9 chip (supports hardware decode of 10-bit HEVC) as a cheaper unit that is mature and still produced for the iPad and iPhone SE.
 

gnipgnop

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I would also guess an A10-level chip but given Apple are still using the A8 for new products (HomePod) I do wonder whether they will cheap out and use the A9 chip (supports hardware decode of 10-bit HEVC) as a cheaper unit that is mature and still produced for the iPad and iPhone SE.
The A8 in the HomePod is what makes me more optimistic about an A10 in a 4K Apple TV. It also fits what they did in 2015, where the Apple TV used an SoC that was one year removed from the latest option for the iPhone.
 

jclardy

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How does market share DECLINE while people await a new model? Are existing ATV owners throwing their ATV's in the trash, thus contributing to the fewer people using ATV, or are they going out and buying competitors streaming boxes, thus increasing competitors market share and decreasing Apples'? If the latter, you really think after buying a Fire TV or a Roku that they're going to ditch that if/when Apple comes out with a 4K box?

Sure, ATV market share is dropping (like many of Apple's products that don't see updated models) but it isn't because people are waiting for a new 4K model!
It is because everyone doesn't own a streaming box, and then these new customers buy a competitors product. No new sales == marketshare decrease. If Apple offered a comparable model (meaning 4k/HDR capability) those new users that just upgraded their TV's would consider it.

Looking at the market Apple is a bit behind. The shield TV is the only box that is comparable price wise, but it does way more with game streaming available, 4k and Amazon Video. If you want a 1080p box every other competitor has options available at nearly half the price of the ATV. It is a good product, but software wise it is only slightly better, the only reasons to go with it are Airplay and if you are already bought into iTunes content.
 

gnipgnop

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It is a good product, but software wise it is only slightly better, the only reasons to go with it are Airplay and if you are already bought into iTunes content.
The App Store on the Apple TV took some time to get going during the first year of release, but I don't think you can realistically say it's only "slightly better" for software vs. the less expensive competitors today.
 

Pman17

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I prefer Apple TV over Roku and Amazon just because it's easier to use and more familiar. Amazon is cool because of the Prime but the UI is sometimes confusing when you're trying to find a specific app you have hidden in the back. New UI is an improvement. The Roku wins at the remote and the TCL TV integration is genius. DirecTV Now runs better on Apple TV. The only downside is the remote. Terrible design because you get mixed up on which way the remote is pointing. It's thin and flat so you hold it like holding the edges of a credit card and small. Touch pad is a good idea for more direction like a mouse pad but I'd rather click arrow buttons just because you have to be gentile with the remote in order to use track pad and buttons are more responsive unless they'll probably keep it and go with a remote with a TapTic engine. With the touch bar tech, it would be cool to have a tiny screen for custom buttons. Also the grade of aluminum feels softer than the old Apple TV remotes making it feel more fragile like I could easily bend it or something.
 

thekeyring

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Apple needs to:
1) Drastically lower the price of the Apple TV to be more in line with its competitors. Ditch most of the memory - hardly anyone is filling up their units with games. Most people just download the streaming apps they use.
2) Fix Siri so that it actually works and does things that people expect of it
3) Fix the ATV4 remote. It sucks. It's slippery to grab and hold and it's difficult to tell with a quick glance which way is up. I have lost count of how many times I grabbed it the wrong way or had it slip in my hand. Inevitably I graze the touchpad portion and end up fast forwarding or rewinding or stopping the stream of whatever I was watching.
I'm as angry and disappointed with Siri as the next man, but it's great on the TV. I'm not sure if it's simply allowed more processing power because the TV is plugged in, but I honestly find it understands me, unlike my iPhone.
 
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MarkNY

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I have the iPad with the A10X and it is REALLY fast. How much faster do these A-series chips need to be before the major game developers (I am think games like Destiny and Call of Duty) would port their full games over for an Apple TV?
 

QuarterSwede

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I'm as angry and disappointed with Siri as the next man, but it's great on the TV. I'm not sure if it's simply allowed more processing power because the TV is plugged in, but I honestly find it understands me, unlike my iPhone.
This. Siri is great on the Apple TV. It always gets what I mean right and it's a lot easier to go back 30sec than by swiping. Unfortunately for me, I have a Harmony Smart remote (LOVE it) that doesn't have a mic so I only use it on the remote app.
 

Beerstalker

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Many people I know that bought streaming boxes got either Roku or FireTV for 2 main reasons. The cost, and the KODI app they could hack to get free movies/shows. I've never been one to get into torrents and illegal/immoral streaming so that benefit don't really sit well with me.

I do wish the Apple TV was a bit cheaper, but I understand why Apple priced it the way they did. I am surprised it hasn't come down much yet, I figured they could have dropped it $25-50 last year and it probably would have helped. I have been lucky enough to find a local used video game seller that tends to get used ones in stock and sells them much more reasonably, that is where I have bought most of mine from. I pre-ordered my first 64GB one for $200, but I've bought 3 more since then for I think $80 for an opened 32GB, $100 for a new in box 32GB, and $120 for an opened 64GB.

As far as the remote goes it has some positives and negatives to it. But, I don't use them much anyway. I set them up on my Harmony remotes and pretty much put the Apple remotes in a drawer. For those that do have issues I recommend you pick up the old Apple TV remote and try using it for a while to see if you like it better. I find it works pretty well, all you miss out on is Siri, which I don't use much anyway.
 

palmerc

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1) If Netflix, which was tiny compared to what it is now, and practically invisible when compared to a company with Apple's resources, could start a streaming service for video, why can't Apple?

2) Bringing the TV app to the rest of the world, and ensuring it works with the major streaming services in each country.

3) Improve the remote: if I want to move it from my sofa, I keep accidentally touching it and nearly ruining whatever we're watching. Plus, I can never tell which way up it is in low light.

1) Content providers pure and simple. They don't want to enable another iTunes Music Store. Short of a pro-consumer law requiring Free Reasonable and Non-discriminatory Terms (FRAND) Apple will be forced to produce its own content and they realise this. That's why they've started dipping their toes in the water. And let's be honest, they really would prefer to just get reasonable licensing terms.

2) It isn't a terribly scalable approach. That's why Apple offers SSO which providers need to adopt.

3) Then it doesn't sound like you're using it very often. I had similar issues in the first days, now, I don't even think about it. That said, lots of people complain about it and there is certainly room in the market for a bigger remote, so I think Apple just needs to get some appealing 3rd party remotes out there to fill the niche. Also, we can assume they'll have learned something from this iteration of Apple TV and make strategic improvements.
 
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ipponrg

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1080p may be fine for resolution, but without 4K you don't have HDR. And HDR is a game changer. And if you ever plug your new MacBook into a 4K set, you'll see a massive amount of difference in your ability to actually read text from it, vs. the same text on a 1080p set.
That's true regarding HDR. I havent plugged it in yet simply because I'm just always using the retina displays :D