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Fotek2001

macrumors regular
Jun 16, 2005
106
0
London, England
I'd never heard of Mitchell and Webb until these ads came out and I've obviously not missed much. Critical, comparative advertising is not often used in the UK for legal reasons and when it is, it doesn't come over well because people aren't used to it.

These ads are crass and embarrasing and I agree with those people who say that criticising the competition isn't the best way to sell yourself. Apple can do better than this and these adverts are frankly pathetic. :confused:
 

SeanMcg

macrumors 6502
Jun 1, 2004
333
1
How does one respond....?

According to my Oxford Dictionary (Tenth Edition):

smug - irritatingly pleased with oneself; self-satisfied.

To my understanding - and eye - Mac is, and looks, 'smug.'


You grow up!

:p


I prefer "Having or showing an excessive pride in oneself or one's achievements..." which, oddly enough, also comes from Oxford University Press.

Either way ("irritatingly" or "excessive"), there is an element of personal feeling here, relative to one's own experience. Personally, I don't find "Mac" irritating or excessive; self-satisfied, yes; proud, yes, but not to any extreme level.

My point is that it seems to be taboo nowadays not just to be proud of one's abilities or accomplishments, but just to mention them.
 

SkyBell

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2006
6,603
219
Texas, unfortunately.
Maybe the reason they work at all is that most people have never realised that Apple make computers at all, it would probably be better to advertise them like the iPod ad's just a bunch of people using Macs.

What, using the iPod shiloutes (I have NO IDEA how to spell that word) with people sitting in a chair using an iMac?
 

adav

macrumors member
Dec 26, 2006
59
0
All I can say is that we should thank our lucky stars that the Little Britain crew weren't chosen instead.

I can confirm that the ads are all over the London Underground, EVERYWHERE in the more central London stations. They're also on loads of bus-stops where I live (Barnet).

I haven't seen the videos being broadcast on the TV yet, although, I can see many Windows users actually taking offense (especially the ignorant Dell crew :rolleyes: ) for being made to look stupid. I recon Apple should be targeting those who don't know what Vista is, those who buy a Dell because everyone they know has one, those who are irritated by viruses/crashes/slowness and don't think there is an alternative, and those who don't realize that their beloved iPod and iTunes are made by Apple who make the Mac thingies.
 

swishyfresh

macrumors newbie
Jan 10, 2007
24
17
London
from living in the UK (London) myself. I can say I did not like te UK ad versions for the Mac.

I had seen the US ones before on youtube, and thought they where pretty nifty, cool and smart. The UK ones where very unfunny, pretentious and smug as described above.

I think just airing the US ones here in the UK would of done the trick.
 

AlBDamned

macrumors 68030
Mar 14, 2005
2,641
15
BBC tech journo Bill Thompson despises these adverts - he's even thinking of ditching his Mac loathe as he is to be compared to Webb's "Mac" character, so it's quite possible the article is true and the ads are dinking Apple's image a little bit.

I think the mainstream casting of the two was wrong, but absolutely agree that Mitchell is funnier in general. Some friends and I went to see "Best of the Worst" being filmed and he was side-splittingly funny. Too bad they only get to show 30 minutes of the 2.5 hour recording.
 

Whistleway

macrumors 6502
Feb 16, 2005
347
0
Hey, I thought we were allowed to be smug because we were superior?:confused:

Naw. That is the main problem so many techies that I talk to. They all hate or love to hate apple because of its arrogance. And that ad for sure, won't win apple many friends.
 

Whistleway

macrumors 6502
Feb 16, 2005
347
0
And the sad part of apple's marketing is, MS is one of the easiest brands that people want to hate. Their computers crash everyday and most people don't know what to do with Window's interface. Given all these, Apple still just can't get any momentum... still hovering at 2.5% really means, there is something going wrong.

People don't want to buy Macs because they don't think Apple brand is worth that much more price. Surely, there must be more than 2.5% of people who don't shop just on price..
 

AlBDamned

macrumors 68030
Mar 14, 2005
2,641
15
Naw. That is the main problem so many techies that I talk to. They all hate or love to hate apple because of its arrogance. And that ad for sure, won't win apple many friends.

Some of the ads are pretty misleading/untrue as well. For example, the iSight one - lots of PCs, some desktops but now a lot more laptops also come with cameras built in.
 

DMann

macrumors 601
Jan 13, 2002
4,001
0
10023
Fud

It sounds unlikely, especially as the original data can't be found, I think it's FUD.

Really, how are these points calculated? Is the margin of error
greater than 30%? Uncertainty and Doubt for certain, but let's
drop the Fear.
 

k2k koos

macrumors 6502a
Mac adds

I do think the UK public needs to get used to this type of advertising, so who better to do this than Apple.
They don't really compare brands (yet) in the UK, it is a generic PC.
True , everyone knows they are talking about PC's running Windows, but they don't call it by the name (unlike the US versions, where they now mention 'vista')yet.
I don't know if the UK versions are worse than the US ones, it may just be that we've seen it all before as the adds are mainly repeats of what we've allready seen on the US versions.
the backfiring effect is probably not true, but Apple does need to make a few changes to the UK add series, as since Vista is out, some issues are not as valid anymore. Running a version of "major surgery" for example would hit it right on the spot right now, not 3 months from now, when the majority of people will allready have bought Vista, or a new machine....
 

BenRoethig

macrumors 68030
Jul 17, 2002
2,729
0
Dubuque, Iowa
And the sad part of apple's marketing is, MS is one of the easiest brands that people want to hate. Their computers crash everyday and most people don't know what to do with Window's interface. Given all these, Apple still just can't get any momentum... still hovering at 2.5% really means, there is something going wrong.

People don't want to buy Macs because they don't think Apple brand is worth that much more price. Surely, there must be more than 2.5% of people who don't shop just on price..

There is, but Apple only aims at that 2.5%. You can't expect to get too many prosumers when you have to spend well over $2000 to get a respectable graphics card or any kind of expansion. They're just aren't that many in the high end thin and light notebook, high end creative professionals, or basic home users and even then half to three quarters are forced to use windows fro compatibility reasons.

The rest Apple fully expects to change how they use a computer and/or except a machine in a segment above or below what they really want. Switching to a new operating system is a huge step, the more road blocks you put along the way, the more chance they're going to get fed up and turn around back to the windows world they know. Also if you do get them into a computer they were never really interested, there's a pretty good chance they'll switch back. I've seen it before.
 

72930

Retired
May 16, 2006
9,060
4
Naw. That is the main problem so many techies that I talk to. They all hate or love to hate apple because of its arrogance. And that ad for sure, won't win apple many friends.

Exactly. IMO they should go with the iPod halo...
 
BBC tech journo Bill Thompson despises these adverts - he's even thinking of ditching his Mac loathe as he is to be compared to Webb's "Mac" character, so it's quite possible the article is true and the ads are dinking Apple's image a little bit.

FWIW, if I was ignorant about Macs & buying a computer today, these ads would have the opposite effect on me of what was intended. I think I'd buy a PC!

Re Bill Thompson's article: I have no great problem with some of the points he makes but, ever since the BBC & MS signed their "memorandum of understanding", the BBC has had very few positive things to say about Apple.
 

Stella

macrumors G3
Apr 21, 2003
8,838
6,341
Canada
Those ads are seriously lame,and the two actors are so unfunny.

The Mac reminded me of Martin Clunes! ( who I think its a great actor BTW )

Now there is a thought - replace with Clunes and Neil Morrissey - and have them take on their Men Behaving Badly characters - now that would be a hoot!
 
Hey, I thought we were allowed to be smug because we were superior?:confused:

:D

Naw. That is the main problem so many techies that I talk to. They all hate or love to hate apple because of its arrogance. And that ad for sure, won't win apple many friends.

;)

Yes, I'm afraid that shipload of wankers out there who really do think they are better than Windows users just because they use a Mac, are the platforms biggest downfall.

Many Windows users simply believe you must be one of those arrogant tossers if you have a Mac or you must be too stupid to realise that Macs are the tossers machine of choice.

These ads do seem to alienate even more people by reinforcing the stereotypes. Are apple making it even harder for its commited users with these ads? Personally I love 'em, particularly the American ones, but not everyone is endowed with a good sense of humour.

I can't believe how angry Windows (and Mac) users can get trying to defend their system of choice.

I hate being perceived as a stuck-up wanker just because I pull out a powerBook and plug it in at a Cyber Cafe when on the road.

Whew! All whinged out. (climbs down from soapbox);)
 

Gosh

macrumors 6502
Aug 14, 2006
349
0
Meanwhile whilst Apple is running these mildly amusing tongue-in-cheek ads people are viewing some of the Vista promotional stuff and saying: "hay, look how easy it is to view and manage photos, make professional looking movies and DVD's - Wow - must get a new PC!"

Ironic isn't it!:(

Lets hope Leopard brings a different tack on ads!:apple:
 

adav

macrumors member
Dec 26, 2006
59
0
Meanwhile whilst Apple is running these mildly amusing tongue-in-cheek ads people are viewing some of the Vista promotional stuff and saying: "hay, look how easy it is to view and manage photos, make professional looking movies and DVD's - Wow - must get a new PC!"

Ironic isn't it!:(

Lets hope Leopard brings a different tack on ads!:apple:

just a thought...

maybe these people actually think the ads are for Vista?
 

SeaFox

macrumors 68030
Jul 22, 2003
2,619
954
Somewhere Else
:confused: I have seen the US versions and the UK versions, and I have to wonder what people consider "smug" these days. In all the versions, Mac is pointing out his virtues in a straightforward, almost deadpan, way. There's no "I'm better than you" attitude from the character. Mac even complements PC in several spots.

I wonder why does Apple doesn't turn the ads around. Lots of "PC" people I meet are rather smug because they think the Mac can't do many things it can, and in some cases better than a PC. I'm sure many here have met the PC person who thinks Macs can't run MS Office, or read PC floppies, or access the Internet. They should have the PC guy there saying, "Gee it's too bad Macs can't ______,": and have Mac answer back that they can with (insert Apple app bundled with Macs).
 

flyinmac

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2006
3,579
2,465
United States
I really think the time has come to come up with a different ad campaign regardless. I'm not sure whether the 'I'm a Mac/PC' ads ever worked overall - I have found some of them funny but I'm not sure I would have if I was exclusively a Windows PC user.

That is a good point.

The ads are entertaining for the established Mac base. But, the thing is, we are not their target audience. They already have the loyal Mac users (which are the ones that will find the commercials funny). So, they only need to keep us happy to keep us buying.

To convince others to switch, it would make more sense to use the marketing methods that actually sell them on differences and advanced capabilities. Unfortunately, that may mean using some boring numbers and spreadsheets.

When buying a PC, I look at specs and price. The most for the least. That's the way I buy a PC.

Unfortunately, the Mac tends to give you the least for the most. By that, I mean that for the price of your average PC, you get a Mac with reduced specifications. For the price of a Mac Mini, I can get a PC that will just flat-out put the mini to shame when it comes to specs.

PC buyers are used to buying based on Specs and price. The last couple of PC's I purchased cost me $600 and $430 (the $600 one was purchased about 5 years ago, and the $430 system about 2 years ago).

The PC's tend to continue to decrease in purchase price while regularly advancing in specs. The system I purchased for $430 more than tripled the performance and specs of the system I had previously purchased for $600.

With the Macs, the prices tend to stay roughly the same, and comparatively high. You do see advancements in specs over time for little difference in price. But, you don't tend to see advancements in specs coupled with dramatic reductions in price.

Bottom line, is that you need a low-cost machine that is in the $400 to $500 range, and is not crippled if they want to cause a mass switch-over to the Mac.

You can argue superiority and all that as much as you want. But, you are not going to gain mass converts by arguing superiority alone. You are going to have to match price for spec and then show superiority as a bonus. That will drive mass converts.

They also need to acknowledge that all-in-one systems are not the desire of everyone. Look at the PC market, and it's clear and obvious that all-in-one's are not the preferred form factor.

There are some that like them. But, you need stand-alone systems that fit in multiple categories. As it is, we have two stand-alone systems and one all-in-one. That leaves some huge gaps. They are trying to cater to a huge number of people with only 3 basic system offerings.

I am a Mac user. So, don't think this is coming from a PC lover. I really would like to see Apple gain the market share. But, I think that they are going to have to truly "Think Different" than they have been to accomplish it.

At this point in time, I have 3 Mac systems. And, I have needs that go beyond what these systems can provide me anymore. Unfortunately, I don't fit in any of Apple's 3 boxes.

The mini isn't enough. The iMac is an all-in-one (which by design won't suit me - because I cannot customize it as needs change, it would only be useful to me for about a year before needing to be replaced). And, the Mac Pro is not only priced way too high, but is beyond the needs that I realistically have.

Sure, if you throw the portables in, then you get two more boxes to consider. But, I don't need a portable, and they would suffer the same short life as an iMac to me.

Additionally, I like the display I have. So, I don't want another one. I've been through two iMac G5 systems with LCD problems that made the rest of the machine useless. So, I don't want that same weakness again. I also quickly learned that I was just buying the screen over and over again each time I got a new iMac. So, that didn't make sense either.

Sure, for the defective screens, I could have plugged-in an external monitor to the iMac while waiting for a replacement LCD screen. But, that isn't ideal either. I'd basically have two monitors on the desk, and only needed one.

And, then when the screens were being serviced, the computer was gone. Other times, when the computer was gone, the screen was also gone. So, that meant I would need a substitute computer and screen.

It's like the old television and VCR combo issue. When the VCR broke, you lost your entire television while waiting for the service center to repair the VCR. When the television broke, you had to borrow not only another television but also a VCR because your VCR was in the shop with your television.

That is the long-standing issue with all-in-one systems.

So, with that in-mind, Apple gives me only two boxes to try and fit into. The Mini and the Pro. And, neither of them is close to a "right" fit.

So, by their limited offerings, they have limited their appeal to both myself and a number of other buyers. Especially PC converts who don't see a good fit for their needs either. Convincing a PC buyer to switch to a Mac is going to be a lot harder when they can get a PC that "fits" their needs for $400, but the closest Mac that at least "fits" is $2000. Sure, the $2000 Mac would offer more power. But, it is beyond what they need.

Sure, the Mac Mini is cheaper, but it is still more expensive than their target price, and still may not be a good "fit" either.

Bottom line, is Apple needs more system offerings than they have now to win mass converts. I am a Mac user, and even I cannot find a machine in their current offerings that "fit" me right. I have work piling-up while I await a machine to be released that both meets my needs and is affordable.

Fortunately, it is work I can put off a bit (it's a project for myself). All I need is a machine comparable in specs to the iMac, with at least one (preferably two) PCI-type slot(s), easy serviceability (I do need to be able to open it to blow the dirt out regularly - which you cannot do without risking the warranty on an iMac), the ability to easily replace the hard drive as future needs dictate, and a dedicated graphics processor, and no built-in screen.

If the software I intended to use were available for the PC, then I could find dozens of proper "fits" in the PC market for under $1000.

But, in the Apple market, the only offering that comes close to fitting, is the Mac Pro for more than a $1000 more. And, while it would fit (by meeting my minimum needs), it would fit very loosely because it is far more than I need. And, it is also much more expensive than my needs dictate or can justify.

For those who are not Mac users yet, the limited offerings is likely to help keep those users buying a PC. They can find dozens of systems in their target price range that meet their desired specs and needs. And, likely Windows already does what they want it to do. If Windows was incapable of meeting their needs, they wouldn't need Apple to tell them to switch. They would do it (or already have done it) out of necessity.

So, again, it goes back to offering more options so that customers can find a system that "fits" them, at a price that is extremely competitive, and then show them that it offers some bonus "superiority" as an extra benefit.

That is a system that would motivate switchers.

"Superiority," by itself, is not enough to win converts or switchers. That marketing strategy will not win the mass market that Apple needs to become more than a small player in the computer market.

Of course, 5% or so is still a lot of systems. But, to take on the likes of Dell, Compaq / HP, and others, they will need to adopt a much different tactic than they've ever used before. Perhaps they will need to think like a PC buyer (just a little) to convince more PC users to switch to Apple.
 

flyinmac

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2006
3,579
2,465
United States
Prior to any criticisms of the casting, the whole concept is just wrong. When one says "I'm good at office stuff" and the other says "I'm good at home stuff", then the infered assumption would be that the one thats good at home stuff isn't as good at office stuff. Given that the biggest myth about Macs is that they are difficult to integrate into your work life, Apple made a really elementary mistake there...

That's a pretty good point.

My wife's office uses the CheckPoint VPN software. With the exception of being able to log-into the VPN, she can do almost everything else she needs using the web-browser and working remotely from her Mac.

But, if she were able to log-into the VPN, then she could actually do everything she needed to do from the Mac (because it would grant her access to all the secured files and restricted web-served applications).

She proposed to them that they just configure her machine to access their VPN, and they simply laughed and said that it would cost them a fortune to implement what they needed to permit that.

Of course, I found a Mac version of the client software for free from the same VPN software company. So, all they'd need to do is configure the Mac Client to talk to their VPN. No big deal.

But, as far as they're concerned, they think they would need to rebuild the whole network.

So, obviously, showing that the Mac is powerful in office environments would help. So, instead, my wife has to use the company supplied PC portable and carry it back and forth. But, if they simply permitted her to install the Mac VPN client and configure it (or simply tell her what the settings are), then she could leave her office computer at the office, and just use her Mac from home.
 

flyinmac

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2006
3,579
2,465
United States
There is, but Apple only aims at that 2.5%. You can't expect to get too many prosumers when you have to spend well over $2000 to get a respectable graphics card or any kind of expansion. They're just aren't that many in the high end thin and light notebook, high end creative professionals, or basic home users and even then half to three quarters are forced to use windows fro compatibility reasons.

The rest Apple fully expects to change how they use a computer and/or except a machine in a segment above or below what they really want. Switching to a new operating system is a huge step, the more road blocks you put along the way, the more chance they're going to get fed up and turn around back to the windows world they know. Also if you do get them into a computer they were never really interested, there's a pretty good chance they'll switch back. I've seen it before.

Very good points. Sounds pretty much along the lines of the arguments I was making in my (admittedly longer and less succinct) posting.
 

rish

macrumors 6502
Mar 23, 2006
349
2
London UK
I've no idea how much truth has been placed in the original rumour however I will say this. My wife and I went to see a film at the cinema and they showed 2 of the Apple Ads "Home Office" and "Virus". Only one person in a full auditorium laughed out loud. I didn't laugh because I've seen the ads too many times and now find them simply amusing. However the problem is that MS based PC's are rife in the UK and I know people don't like to be told that they are wrong. People are more likely to stubborn and stupid and continue to stick with a wrong decision than to say okay fine you're right.

There are far too many people in the world who make it their prime objective to be right than to be happy.

Talking of ads in the UK, anyone seen MS's "Wow" campaign. The dumb fidgets at MS forget to do one that say's "Wow, it took all that time for us to copy what Apple had already done way back in 2001, Wow we're so rubbish really". Or "Wow, so many dumb suckers are going to believe what we have done is so revolutionary/innovative, let's hope they don't see the Mac ads and learn the truth".
 

babyj

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2006
586
8
I thought Mitchell and Webb was a pretty bad choice for the ads. They're not that well known and their comedy isn't mainstream and won't appeal to everyone.

Personally, I'd of gone for totally different UK specific ads with perhaps the presenters from Top Gear - they are funny and well known. Clarkson smashing up a PC with a sledge hammer after it crashes would of been funny.
 
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