Apple Updates App Store Guidelines to Permit Game Emulators, Website Links in EU Music Apps

[koil]

Wow. This is the biggest reason I want to sideload. If this is for real and not still restricted somehow, this will be big!

Can't know for sure obviously, but I would be surprised if emulators are allowed to use just-in-time (JIT) compilation techniques, as that's currently only allowed for Safari.

Without it emulators will probably be pretty low in performance unfortunately. Could probably work for old-school consoles like NES/SNES/MegaDrive/GameBoy/etc, but I doubt anything 3D will work well without it.

 

[yensteel]

Game emulators aside, could x86 emulation be allowed then? Or, are VM Machines running another Arm-based OS? Ever since I got my M1 iPad, there have been a lot of computational tasks I wanted to offload onto it but couldn't. Ffmpeg and software-based encoding for example.

 

[Kevin Palser]

Any thoughts on this guideline still being present?:

• 2.5.2 Apps should be self-contained in their bundles, and may not read or write data outside the designated container area, nor may they download, install, or execute code which introduces or changes features or functionality of the app, including other apps. Educational apps designed to teach, develop, or allow students to test executable code may, in limited circumstances, download code provided that such code is not used for other purposes. Such apps must make the source code provided by the app completely viewable and editable by the user.

and this:

• 4.7.4 You must provide an index of software and metadata available in your app. It must include universal links that lead to all of the software offered in your app.

I don't think the developers are going to be allowed to add an option to browse local files and open a ROM, tape file etc...

 

[Aiii83]

What’s a “Game Emulator” anyways. I know software that emulates gaming hardware so you can play games intended for that hardware through it. But those are not emulating the game itself, so that’s not what this is. Very confusing.

 

[BuddyRich]

Game emulators seem to go against the IP holders of the games since the ROMs are readily available with no way for the owners to be paid. They are created knowing the users will use ROMs they are not entitled to use. There is a reason emulators do not come with games, except manufacturers who have licensed the ROMs from the IP owner.

By that logic, video player apps like VLC and Apples own video player app only exist to play copyright videos. And Apples own Music app must also facilitate piracy because it can play copyrighted music files... Funny that Apple treated emulators specifically how they did, when the same argument can be levied to their own apps, let alone other 3rd party apps already available on the app store.

 

[BuddyRich]

But how many percent of people use bittorent for downloading pirated content vs actually using it for legitimate stuff? Same with bitcoin. Compared to the proportion of people who use a knife for cooking vs stabbing people?

If you know the overwhelming vast majority of people visit piratebay just to download the latest movies and shows so they can watch them without actually paying, are we going to handwave the biggest enabler of all this just because 1 or 2 people use it to distribute software legally? Seems like the better solution would be to move them to a better solution and then shut down the website.

What about Apple's own iPod... it would have never saw the light of day if it wasn't for Napster and pirated MP3s. The itunes store where you could legally purchase music released in 2003 2 years after the first iPod hardware released in 2001...

 

[NagasakiGG]

“They want to use Apple's tools and technologies, distribute on the ‌App Store‌, and benefit from the trust we've built with users - and pay Apple nothing for it,"

Exactly!

For the tools and technologies they pay the device price (Mac, as Xcode only works on macOS) as well as the Developer Account. So if people are not fine by companies "exploiting" the App Store by wanting free stuff, just let them distribute Apps outside of the App Store? And for the ones who want to distribute them in the App Store, can stick to Apples fee. But forcing People to distribute their Apps isn't fair either.

 

[scorpio vega]

So what would this mean to, say, a parallels or VMWare? Could this potentially open up the door for getting a Mac or Windows emulator on the AppStore? Opening my iPad and just working out of MacOS or Windows via Paralles would be the absolute dream here.

At this point use windows or Mac lol.

 

[turbineseaplane]

So what would this mean to, say, a parallels or VMWare? Could this potentially open up the door for getting a Mac or Windows emulator on the AppStore? Opening my iPad and just working out of MacOS or Windows via Paralles would be the absolute dream here.

A really great point!

I would be very interested in running a macOS and/or Windows VM on an iPad

Very

 

[turbineseaplane]

Any thoughts on this guideline still being present?:

and this:

I don't think the developers are going to be allowed to add an option to browse local files and open a ROM, tape file etc...

All of that applies to the App itself
You'll be able to, as a user, add data (files) to the container if you'd like

 

[scorpio vega]

What about Apple's own iPod... it would have never saw the light of day if it wasn't for Napster and pirated MP3s. The itunes store where you could legally purchase music released in 2003 2 years after the first iPod hardware released in 2001...

Actually that’s a slightly false narrative. I was not using pirated mp3 when I got my first iPod lol. You might have been

 

[Kevin Palser]

All of that applies to the App itself
You'll be able to, as a user, add data (files) to the container if you'd like

Most of the readers here will be hoping you are right. My ZX81 app has had external files loading disabled since 2016 because of the 2.5.2 rule (or equivalent rule over the years). I guess we'll know in the next day or so if Apple's review team reject the update I have submitted enabling the loading. I've even cited the rule in the review notes to make it unequivocal... I doubt they get many app submissions semi-postulating a rejection. 😄

Apple and their don't ask we'll tell you if we see something we don't like stance. I mean I get it that they cannot theorise beforehand and commit to answer but for us developers it really is frustrating because we have to put in the effort with no guarantees it will see the light of day.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Most of the readers here will be hoping you are right. My ZX81 app has had external files loading disabled since 2016 because of the 2.5.2 rule (or equivalent rule over the years). I guess we'll know in the next day or so if Apple's review team reject the update I have submitted enabling the loading. I've even cited the rule in the review notes to make it unequivocal... I doubt they get many app submissions semi-postulating a rejection. 😄

Apple and their don't ask we'll tell you if we see something we don't like stance. I mean I get it that they cannot theorise beforehand and commit to answer but for us developers it really is frustrating because we have to put in the effort with no guarantees it will see the light of day.

Hopefully Apple are smart enough to realize it's going to be more needless changing on their end (at least in the EU) if they functionally gimp an Emulator by not allowing anything to run beyond what is bundled in an App (that'd be nuts)

It is sort of enjoyable to watch "the Teacher" (EU) keep telling Apple to "write on the chalkboard" over and over until they internalize things..

"I will not violate the DMA"..
"I will operate in the spirit of the DMA..."

over... and over...

I'm sure many developers are enjoying watching the shoe be on the other foot for Apple, for once... perhaps the first time ever.

 

[thewiccaman]

Wow, thought I would never see the day emulators would be allowed on ios, Dolphin Emu on iPad would be the dream. (Although I wonder if Apple considers the cutoff for retro emulators, there's no way that Apple would allow a Switch emulator on the app store.)

Most of the Switch emulators have gone after Nintendo went after Yozo (?).

 

[thewiccaman]

Wait, I don't want to hype myself up.

Are the emulator changes worldwide or just EU only? The article doesn't specify.

Worldwide according to The Verge but with huge restriction regarding potential for piracy.

 

[Rychiar]

All of the new changes from these government issues I want on Apple TV not iPhone . I want nvidia GeForce now and emulators on Apple TV where they’d be useful

 

[Saturn007]

Game emulator is cool - can't wait to see an Apple ][+ emulator running on my ipad. Choplifter here I come!

wouldn't it be great if apple just took over the market for retro roms, sold them to us for a decent price and paid commissions to the owners

I wouldn't mind a Mac OS 9 emulator. Or an Apple ][ emulator.

The vast majority of old games aren't available anywhere to purchase and/or play legally

Apple should put out an Apple ][ e/c emulator, set up an Apple ][ Game Arcade, and pay the original developers for the rights to include their games. It could later be expanded to other types of programs.

It'd be great fun!

Many boomers as well as many of those in the subsequent generation(s) have the DI (disposable income) and would love the nostalgia of playing their childhood, teenage, and young adult favorites.

Choplifter, indeed! Not to mention Sneakers, Zork, Odyssey, EA Winter & Summer Sports, Frogger, Adventure Construction Set, Dark Castle (oops, Mac), Earl Weaver Baseball), Leisure Suit Larry (treating it as a satire as it was meant), Prince of Persia, Snoopy to the Rescue, Space Quest, Ultima, Carmen San Diego, etc.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apple_II_games

Good times! Good memories!

Just don't make it a subscription — a package price for a large bundle, with subsequent bundles released for purchase.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Only music streaming apps. Leave it to Apple to try and satisfy regulators with the narrowest possible margi

Of course. Music streaming is what they've been found guilty of anticompetitive conduct in the EU. Hope that the dating app companies, video streaming companies, audio book and eBook sellers and others are paying closing attention and following suit to complain to the EU. ✊

👉 Can't wait for Apple to receive more fines until they stop that b***s***. 🥳 👯‍♀️

Bring it on 💪 and make it rain, EU! 💸💸💸💸💸

 

[Kevin Palser]

Even after quoting the 2.5.2 rule and showing the app loading the tape file in the review notes... it was approved. Pigs fly.

 

[wbeasley]

I don't disagree, and I infact wonder if the EU will have something to say about the travel restrictions and such, or even the potential privacy violations if location enablement checking is a requirement .. I kind of hope so. As it's perfectly possible to leave for more than 30 days at a time and still be an EU resident. My mother infact currently spends about 4-5 months of year in UK whilst still being an EU resident.

And how many apps does your mother run that she didnt get from the official app store?

 

[blackcrayon]

Any thoughts on this guideline still being present?:

and this:

I don't think the developers are going to be allowed to add an option to browse local files and open a ROM, tape file etc...

i don't know, #1 sounds like you would at worst be able to go to Files and just copy the ROMs into the designated container for the app. and I'm not sure it really prohibits using the standard Apple Open... function to copy files into the app's container.

 

[blackcrayon]

Set, Dark Castle (oops, Mac), Earl Weaver Baseball), Leisure Suit Larry (treating it as a satire as it was meant), Prince of Persia, Snoopy to the Rescue, Space Quest, Ultima, Carmen San Diego, etc.

Good idea! It would only have to also encompass Apple IIgs games to include Dark Castle GS

 

[Abazigal]

What about Apple's own iPod... it would have never saw the light of day if it wasn't for Napster and pirated MP3s. The itunes store where you could legally purchase music released in 2003 2 years after the first iPod hardware released in 2001...

The point is that you were at least allowed to RIP songs from CDs that you already owned to load onto an iPod (or any other MP3 player for that matter). Which gave Apple enough of a legal cover to hide behind.

How many percent of users are actually using BitTorrent for legitimate use cases vs simply downloading content they don't own or don't want to pay for?

As for emulators, sure, making one may not technically be illegal, but what exactly is the legitimate business case for releasing one, if you don't intend to use it for running software that you otherwise don't own the rights to? Yes, one can argue that the parent company is not being harmed because they are not making the game available anyways, and so would not have been financially harmed, but the problem then comes when developers try to profit off the sale of emulators (like what Alt Store is attempting to do here).

Piracy is still piracy (and last I checked, it's still against the law in many countries). It's just whether the company in question wants to enforce it or not. And when the company in question is Nintendo...

GitLab confirms it’s removed Suyu, a fork of Nintendo Switch emulator Yuzu

The company says it’s just following its DMCA takedown policy.

www.msn.com

I think it's one thing to argue that you don't care about the ramifications of software piracy because you don't think you will actually end up being prosecuted for your actions, and another thing to argue that it's not illegal to begin with.

I don't know why Apple is suddenly deciding to reverse course on this. Maybe they are thinking of letting game companies like Sega and Nintendo do their dirty work for them?

 

[Naraxus]

But how many percent of people use bittorent for downloading pirated content vs actually using it for legitimate stuff? Same with bitcoin. Compared to the proportion of people who use a knife for cooking vs stabbing people?

If you know the overwhelming vast majority of people visit piratebay just to download the latest movies and shows so they can watch them without actually paying, are we going to handwave the biggest enabler of all this just because 1 or 2 people use it to distribute software legally? Seems like the better solution would be to move them to a better solution and then shut down the website.

This is what that joker Louis Rossmann advocates - unfettered piracy. The ways and lengths he goes to to try and excuse his illegal activities is rather cute.

He was talking the other day about how he once ordered a physical copy of an Alice In Chains album from some place online, and because he couldn't be bothered to wait a few days for his order to arrive he deciced to go and illegally obtain one via piracy. He laughably attempted to justify it claiming that since he already purchased a physical copy of the album online, everyone was compensated.

Except for the fact that Alice In Chains wasn't compensated for the album that Rossmann stole via piracy. They were only compensated for the physical album he bought from like Amazon.

I'm honestly against emulators and wish Apple had told the EU to pound sand over the matter.

 

[Abazigal]

I'm honestly against emulators and wish Apple had told the EU to pound sand over the matter.

Do we know that the EU forced Apple to allow emulators? It seems like a very specific category of software to capitulate over. I wonder if it's Apple realising that third party app stores will very likely be used to distribute software normally not allowed in the App Store (emulators possibly being on the top of the list), and so deciding to reverse their policy so that users have one less reason to venture outside of the iOS App Store.

I am still unsure of their legality though. I know people can come up with 101 reasons to justify why emulators shouldn't be illegal, but at the end of the day, what matters is how the law interprets it, and how aggressively companies like Nintendo choose to defend their IP. Like in this case, do they choose to sue Apple, the developer or the person distributing the ROMs?