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I am amazed to recently discover Mac owners pay more on average to keep the most current OS running on their box, even though OS X is cheaper (by about $70) than comparative Windows releases. This is, of course, due to the release of a new version of OS X every 18 months or so compared to the ridiculous periods between Windows versions.

Bravo to you Apple for creating and meeting consumer demand while increasing your profit! This is a great stock to own right now. It's rated as Buy at $75 and yet it still trades for around $67-$68. I still don't know why more people don't hold on to this stock.
 
deconai said:
I am amazed to recently discover Mac owners pay more on average to keep the most current OS running on their box, even though OS X is cheaper (by about $70) than comparative Windows releases.

Spending $400 on Vista Ultimate Edition makes up the difference. :) Although the operative phrase here is "most current OS running on their box"--the most current Windows is six years old, so if people want to complain that it costs more money to keep up with modern OS updates than it does to have no major OS updates at all for over half a decade, that's not exactly something I consider a negative.
 
deconai said:
This is, of course, due to the release of a new version of OS X every 18 months or so compared to the ridiculous periods between Windows versions.


Agreed.
 
inkswamp said:
I have a Windows XP box on my desk next to my G5 and XP's windows and menus are lightning fast and immediately responsive.

There have been a few ways to increase the speed of the menu's. One was plist edit where you just changed a value and it made menu's pup-up instantly. I can't seem to find the how to, but there's one somewhere. Maybe someone here knows what I'm talking about and can post a link.
 
slb said:
Spending $400 on Vista Ultimate Edition makes up the difference. :) Although the operative phrase here is "most current OS running on their box"--the most current Windows is six years old, so if people want to complain that it costs more money to keep up with modern OS updates than it does to have no major OS updates at all for over half a decade, that's not exactly something I consider a negative.
I've been using Vista pre-RC1 for a few days and besides some graphics updates it feels just like XP. The gadgets are not quite as nice as os x. Beyond that, Areo is super slow when you have several applications open and to run it you need 1 GB of ram or that's what they recommend. Vista is a resource hog. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice update, but it has a long way to go.
 
When the hell is Apple going to seed leopard to us select developers? Also an update of the WWDC videos would be nice. It sucks when you get hospitalized and can't recover in TIME to go to WWDC.

The least Apple could do is treat developers who are excited and PAY for select accounts (myself included) with a little respect and post some of the leopard stuff. geeze.

If you are an Apple developer unable to leave your country or travel to the united states and physically attend the conference in San Francisco you are pretty much screwed.

It annoys me that I pay for this treatment, yet Microsoft is more than happy to release all kinds of pre beta stuff to me just for signing up as a developer.

Apple TAKE CARE of your paying developers. Geeze.
 
Actually a vast majority of normal mac owners (not the geeks and fans who visit the mac sites) don't update their OS as often as you think. It's nice to know that for the same price of 1 copy of Windows XP Pro, you can get a 5-lisenced family pack of Mac OS X.

THINK ABOUT THAT!

BWhaler said:
deconai said:
I am amazed to recently discover Mac owners pay more on average to keep the most current OS running on their box, even though OS X is cheaper (by about $70) than comparative Windows releases. This is, of course, due to the release of a new version of OS X every 18 months or so compared to the ridiculous periods between Windows versions.

Agreed.
 
inkhead said:
When the hell is Apple going to seed leopard to us select developers? Also an update of the WWDC videos would be nice. It sucks when you get hospitalized and can't recover in TIME to go to WWDC.
Why are you asking here? Why not call Apple developer relations and ask them?

It annoys me that I pay for this treatment, yet Microsoft is more than happy to release all kinds of pre beta stuff to me just for signing up as a developer.

Microsoft is also more than happy to charge through the teeth for decent developer tools too.
 
core animation

Billy Boo Bob said:
I don't remember... Is Core Animation based on OpenGL?

I am certain that it is 3d accelerated anyway, that Core Animation falls under Quartz.. i may be wrong.
 
majorp said:
yeah, it would only cost them $1000+ to have someone come round to my house and do something about it, well worth the £59 they would sell the end product for :rolleyes:

do they check everybodys IP, how do they know i wasn't at wwdc.

Exactly - why would they bother? I'm not sharing it. Plus, I paid for Jaguar (well, the computer it came on), I paid for Panther, I paid for Tiger and I'll 100% certainly be paying for Leopard when it comes out. I want to play with the new features every so often, and get myself all excited about what's to come. How exactly am I hurting Apple? They'd be fools to drive away a long time and dedicated customer by throwing legal issues at me.
 
inkswamp said:
I'm hoping one of the super secret features is a completely reworked Finder.


I agree Finder is slower than a snail. Many Mac fans live in denial about the s-l--o--w f----i-----n-------d--------e----r but it is a joke compared to XP. I love OS X and it would be easy to impress others with it's elegance if it weren't for the S-L--O---W F----I-----N------D-------E--------R.

Great! The pop-up menu on my documents folder in the dock just opened. Bye Bye.
 
I already took it up with Developer Relations aka dev support, they said sorry soon. I actually got the disc anyway from my co-worker who went to WWDC, but I'm annoyed because I work with other select developers on a project, and I'd like to start checking out documentation on core animation, and some of the new features for a new application we want to build

hayesk said:
Why are you asking here? Why not call Apple developer relations and ask them?

I'm not going to say Microsoft is better than Apple as far as development, because XCode rocks, however MS is like Dell.... You can compare retail price of a Dell and a Mac and the mac will be cheeper however Dell always has some discount coupon. MS does the same sort of thing, if you are a Student you can get full on access to beta builds from day one, like you were Adobe. MS always has some discount, or deal you can get for their premium tools. Granted I don't think that's a good strategy for an OS, (great way to have features stolen) but being an Apple select developer (i assume you are too) the login is Underwhelming compared to what you get with MS. I wish Apple had more mailing lists, forums, private stuff for people who paid. For example anyone can have access to the cocoa-dev mailing list, which is a good thing, but if say I wanted to discuss core-animation with other developers, and Apple programmers, I'm not allowed to do this, and there is no private lists for select developers to discuss with each other.

I think in general apple needs to provide more ways for the paying developers to communicate with each other. I've learned everything I know about XCode and programming from the mailing lists, I'd love apple to have private web based discussion forums for paying developers.

Microsoft is also more than happy to charge through the teeth for decent developer tools too.
 
The finder is being rewritten. This was posted and discussed several places (i think on thinksecret offsite forums. I haven't installed leopard, and I can't comment on it anyway because of NDA, but from stuff on the web, the finder has been rewritten from scratch and it appears that brushed metal is just temporary.

digitalbiker said:
I agree Finder is slower than a snail. Many Mac fans live in denial about the s-l--o--w f----i-----n-------d--------e----r but it is a joke compared to XP. I love OS X and it would be easy to impress others with it's elegance if it weren't for the S-L--O---W F----I-----N------D-------E--------R.

Great! The pop-up menu on my documents folder in the dock just opened. Bye Bye.
 
inkhead said:
I already took it up with Developer Relations aka dev support, they said sorry soon. I actually got the disc anyway from my co-worker who went to WWDC, but I'm annoyed because I work with other select developers on a project, and I'd like to start checking out documentation on core animation, ...


This is the first year that I went to WWDC and I am a ADC Select developer like you. However, the difference is I had to pay 100% out of pocket to go. My employer does not use Macs and I had to do it on my own.* At the conference, I met a lot of developers whose companies paid for the trip and they stayed in the Hyatts ($200 a night).. My gf and I stayed at the crappy hotel by 7th street which was in a unsafe part of SOMA plus I used a week of my own PTO etc..*

It sure was alot of money ~$2300.* I sure could have done alot with that but I used it for my education and check out WWDC.* It really adds alot of value to the conference to really get the new bits. * I do not think it is fair to wait for the general rollout to ADC if you are charging so much for the conference. *This year, there was not a lot of new things besides Leopard.. Leopard was the star show and only partially revealed. Therefore the revealed parts and Leopard sessions were the key points and those were pretty tight lipped and the mostly the value of going.

So,* why should you be able to see the sessions and get the same seed three weeks later? *Its not fair to independent developers like me and gives my project a jump start against potential competetors like you..* **

I skipped last two years WWDC and waited until Tiger was ADC seeded and have been watching the 2005 sessions without going to WWDC the same as you..* So, i have been on both sides of the fence.* Once you pay for WWDC yourself, then you really understand that its right to let the WWDC get the first drink from the water fountain and drink for awhile.

-JakeDude*
 
correction.. I think it is fair to make ADC Select peeps wait for the seed.* Also, the asterisks were not added by me.. Must file a bug..*
 
Jake:

Please don't assume. First of all, I pay for 4 active ADC memberships. I usually buy about 4 WWDC tickets. This year as every year, I bought my own WWDC ticket. My employer (myself) is mean ;-) However this year for the first time in 5 years I wasn't able to attend because of knee surgery recovery running longer than expected. I planned my surgery around WWDC.

So let me get this right? You are saying that the sessions shouldn't be online because you are poor and don't want people who get their wwdc tickets for free to get the jump on you.

SO WHAT about all the PEOPLE POORER than you who can't afford WWDC? So you are saying they don't deserve a chance to learn leopard?


What you are saying is a double standard!

Regardless, my issue isn't money, and the WWDC sessions are always put up online, which they will be shortly. It would just be nice if Apple got on the ball.

I realize you don't want the session videos online because the college student who has $498, and overdraws his bank account to get ADC select, might get the jump on you, and since you EVEN though you paid it out of pocket were able to afford $2300, you are using this to say that more money should buy more?, but not really?

Think about what your saying.. claiming to be poor, but it only works as long as you aren't the one cut off.

either way I can afford any Mac, or Apple product I want, and development is a passion for me not a requirement to survive. I don't need to work, I want to work. But saying that your not going to be able to compete with somebody like me with unlimited funds... isn't true. Mac OS X is the best platform to develop for if you want to level the playing field. You notice many of the Apple Design Awards went to SMALL companies? On the mac platform, many, many small companies, and one man shows are making very good money! You have just as much chance as me, even if I have more resources money, machines, and people. It's easy to innovate.



jakeDude said:
This is the first year that I went to WWDC and I am a ADC Select developer like you. However, the difference is I had to pay 100% out of pocket to go. My employer does not use Macs and I had to do it on my own.* At the conference, I met a lot of developers whose companies paid for the trip and they stayed in the Hyatts ($200 a night).. My gf and I stayed at the crappy hotel by 7th street which was in a unsafe part of SOMA plus I used a week of my own PTO etc..*

It sure was alot of money ~$2300.* I sure could have done alot with that but I used it for my education and check out WWDC.* It really adds alot of value to the conference to really get the new bits. * I do not think it is fair to wait for the general rollout to ADC if you are charging so much for the conference. *This year, there was not a lot of new things besides Leopard.. Leopard was the star show and only partially revealed. Therefore the revealed parts and Leopard sessions were the key points and those were pretty tight lipped and the mostly the value of going.

So,* why should you be able to see the sessions and get the same seed three weeks later? *Its not fair to independent developers like me and gives my project a jump start against potential competetors like you..* **

I skipped last two years WWDC and waited until Tiger was ADC seeded and have been watching the 2005 sessions without going to WWDC the same as you..* So, i have been on both sides of the fence.* Once you pay for WWDC yourself, then you really understand that its right to let the WWDC get the first drink from the water fountain and drink for awhile.

-JakeDude*
 
Also to the best of my knowledge Leopard is NOT on premier accounts yet either, know is any of the sessions.
 
Inkhead, you make a good point about the ADA. **In the world of software, it recently has been the little guys that have been walking all over the larger companies (Paypal, Skype, Digg, MySpace, YouTube etc..) etc..**

Competition is great too. *I am very happy that you are in a sucessful Mac oriented business. We are a community and facing hard times. We both have to work together to get our marketshare up so we can get more shelf space. The amount of non-game software space is very dismal.* To buy a $2500 desktop Mac pro and see very little shelf units can be a hard purchase versus going into Best Buy and seeing rows of PC software.*

Back to the core issue, *money.. ***XCode and GCC and Interface builder are free..* Obviously someone like Delicious Monster or OmniGroup has tons of resources, they can get free Interns and have the connections.* Wil and Ken Case were presenters this year.* *Wil said in his student talk, Delicious made $54000 in profit the first day..* *

So, where does that leave independent shops like us?* I want to kick Delicious Monster's butt bad at the 2007 ADA as Wil said they are presenting Version 2 of Delicious Library.. Stuff like OmniPlan is coming out..*

The reality:*
*I am a nobody at the conference. But I have a dream and one idea that I think is fresh enough to compete and possibly sell. Its all up to me to implement it and ship it. Steve Jobs said - "Real artists ship."* *Part of the problem is my fault and some of it is not.. *The reality for my situation is obviously better than some and worse off than others.*

As developers we need:
1) *development environment (XCode, IB, etc), APIs, sample code and docs
2) *time
3) *skill*
4) *customers or audience
5) *ideas , features, a purpose for the applications / systems

The only issues that are currently variable between you, me , and general Mac developer population (750K+ according to the keynote)* are 1 and 2.
#3 is based on #1 and #2 and we are all coding to the same APIs here using the same tools.

* * I work for a lavery large insurance company and idiot PHB and alot of time after working as corporate drone can't work on my independent app when I come home.. I'm done from being in the office all day doing .Net development or maintaing others crappy code.* Plus its just me.. I am the only mac developer I know.* I did meet some at the conference, but they were from IT depts or large companies like Watcom.* Not many people want to talk to me at WWDC, I look boring and didnt have any company on my badge. *I would argue that anybody can have the same skill if given enough time to work on a problem.* Alot of successful products such as Delicious Library or this years ADA winners like Line Form were simpler apps compared to something like Modo.

So,* how do I get more time?*
*1)* I took off another week of PTO so I can sit at home and bang away on my computer all week. Thats a very limited resource unless I want to quit job and live on rice on beans and find a part time job 3rd shift somewhere so I can code more.

*2)* Use Apple technologies to the fullest such as Core Animation and QTKit and AppKit and ObjC.. *I do not have time to figure out how to get NSViews on OpenGL views for example, so i will just use the provided documentation.. Im using XCode 3.0, new stuff in ObjC..

A good application is like a good song.* It can be played unplugged on acoustic guitar or electric guitar.* Between Tiger and Leopard is not as wide as the marketing suggests.* Some applications do not need a glossy Core Animation interface. Animations can be done in others ways.. Look at Omnidazzle or FrontRow or use OpenGL stuff on Tiger.* Look at Photobooth.. This is such a simple application, but it works.

Reading this forum.. *I live in Austrailia, I have bad injury/medical condition, I am a student etc, too poor etc.. * yes, it sucks!! Trying to make a living as a software developer nowdays is not easy.* I hear you brother.. Everyone thinks they are a developer just because they can write a web page or have XCode or Visual Studio installed or programmed a couple hello world apps in VB or Java.*

I need the tools like Core Animation ASAP and ObjC features so I can spend more time adding features to my app.* In reality, we really only have until late Spring to get our apps ready for te release of Leopard and until maybe late May until submission for ADA. **That gives us maybe 6 months. *

Back to the money issue..* Apple cannot give away Leopard seeds for free.. *It eats into Tiger and Leopard sales too much. It breaks too many Applecare when people screw up installing Leopard etc.. Preview seed blew up my Tiger partition i had.. I had to do a clean install :( * Microsoft doesnt do that even.. you have to buy MSDN for that..* There has to be a fee for the conference.* It costs alot to setup and for the 1000 engineers on site etc.. *If the fee isn't high enough, then 20,000 people would show up. I felt WWDC was not code specific enough as it is.. Too many IT tracks and less code samples and sample code released.*Too many people steal Apple's ideas.. Apple spent alot of time at the Keynote going over this.. **So, Apple this year decide to help developers by giving us a seed and having* alot of Leopard sessions and exclusive Leopard documentation.. A lot of documentation is not on the seed and exclusive for WWDC attendees.***


So, I want everybody to use Leopard feature Z, because it helps Apple because Leopard makes Apple money.. i want more people to buy macs to buy my product, and it pushes for faster hardware (we all love new Apple hardware).

There is a fine line with what Apple provides.. last year (2005) it was Developer Transition kit.. there wasnt any way to compile/test for Intel unless you had that and was like $1000 until the first Intel based comptuer came out.* Before that it was the same story.. Tiger seed given out at WWDC 2004.. so no way to do Core Data or Core Video unless you had that.*
There is always going to be dangling carrots like new CPUS or OS versions.* Apple is extremely secretive, they didnt annouce even that they were giving out the seed until it leaked out the day before the conference.
*
To answer your question.. what about people that can't afford even the ADC Select? People poorer than myself.* I have ADC Select..* You are asking to let 750K people download Leopard the way Microsoft has done with Vista RC1.*

My answer.. That doesnt help me with issue #1 and #2 above that I talked about.. Now everyone has all the same tools/docs (unless you are top company like Aspyr, you will always know more NDA stuff) .. So #1, is balanced and drops off.* leaving time #2 as the only difference between me and the other companies. My skill is largely based on time, because I am new to the APIs (partly why I went to WWDC to learn more about QTKit etc..)

Applications will be won based on time alone.. Small shops like me who are doing this on PTO and nights/weekends will lose..* I need all the help I can do to win the ADA against products from OmniGroup, Deleicious Monster and you and others.. These companies have the seed to.. But really helps me out by letting me catch up agaisnt the unknowns small shops like the guy that wrote F-Script (Phillipe ???) or that Line Form App..*

If I can go to WWDC sessions to learn and walk away with beter tools and APIs its awesome.. It helps me and Apple benefit.. It just sucks for the people who cannot commit and have to wait 4-8 weeks for the same stuff.* That will be me next year, i am not going to be able to go next year.. I am in the same boat and hear you brother.* I am just the lttle guy here competing against these serial ADA winners....*

Sorry for the lecture..* I loved your feedback.




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Sound Fix!

I've had my aging 17" 1 ghz powerbook for a long time now. Left audio stopped working about one and a half years ago, or that is when I noticed it. I wasn't prudent enough to have an extended applecare plan, and left sound didn't really matter, so I never took my powerbook in.

After the recent Leopard update, my Powerbook has once again been outputting stereo sound!:D I noticed it while watching the new Mac ads.
 
digitalbiker said:
I agree Finder is slower than a snail. Many Mac fans live in denial about the s-l--o--w f----i-----n-------d--------e----r but it is a joke compared to XP. I love OS X and it would be easy to impress others with it's elegance if it weren't for the S-L--O---W F----I-----N------D-------E--------R.

Great! The pop-up menu on my documents folder in the dock just opened. Bye Bye.

Sorry, you don't use XP and OS X, then...XP is much slower and a simple piece of crap in regards to multitasking and multithreading...OS X is MUCH faster at that, and can deal with multiple windows, eye candy and different tasks WAAAAAAAAAY better than XP...and yes, I use both (XP for work, OS X at home).
 
hidden code

ajkrause said:
Apple has a history of that... making their OS'es run faster than the previous one on the same hardware. At least that's what my experience has been with Panther, Tiger and Leopard preview.

When I bought my Powerbook G4 3 years ago, it came with Panther, then I upgraded to Tiger and it seemed to run much faster... much more responsive. After its hard drive died, I sold it and repaced it with a MacBook Pro with Tiger pre-installed and now that I am running on Leopard, it's running just as fast and sometimes even faster than Tiger. I am very pleased.*:)

Of what minimal programming experience I have, I was concerned by this code I found in one of the system startup scripts:

setmaxcomputerspeed(.22113*MacOSXVersion);

just being silly... :D

--Andy
 
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