Apple Updating Schoolwork and Classroom Apps With New Distance-Learning Features and More

[PR.]

I work in the IT department of a school and every student and teacher has an iPad, they've been fully integrated in to the curriculum and they've been a star in this lockdown as everyone can learn remotely. We use GSuite with them so Classroom, Meet, Chat etc. all worked well.

We did look at Apple Classroom and the Junior School uses it for controlling their iPads. But Schoolwork was very poor, we spent months testing it trying to make it work reliably and in the end we just gave up.

 

[robjulo]

Interesting...after I read some of your other posts, I realized you must be fairly well informed. In fairness, by daughter goes to a private parochial school, so I suspect that is part of the difference.

I'm glad to hear your experience has been different. I've worked in two states in several districts. I don't see a trend towards using technology in an interesting way as a general rule. There are exceptions, but broadly the tech tends to be used mostly for google docs and the occasional slideshow.

 

[enc0re]

If Apple cared about education, they would have to start at the LMS (learning management system) level.

Option 1: build an amazing cross platform service that schools want to switch to. I do not think Apple has the chops to do this.

Option 2: integrate tightly with the leading LMS (Moodle, etc).

Apple’s current approach of “look we have the best tablets in the market so use our extremely limited functionality single platform software with them” is so arrogant as to boggle the mind. It’s worse than when they thought the cylinder Mac Pro was a good solution for pros.

 

[bag99001]

Interesting...after I read some of your other posts, I realized you must be fairly well informed. In fairness, by daughter goes to a private parochial school, so I suspect that is part of the difference.

Thank you. And I believe that would make a huge difference (in some cases less tech...some way more). And of course, we're talking generalizations here. There are of course exceptions within buildings where individual teachers, let alone districts, are doing some really pedagogically interesting and appropriate stuff. It's just not generally that way with regards to tech, let alone using Apple products.
[automerge]1590089470[/automerge]

If Apple cared about education, they would have to start at the LMS (learning management system) level.

Option 1: build an amazing cross platform service that schools want to switch to. I do not think Apple has the chops to do this.

Option 2: integrate tightly with the leading LMS (Moodle, etc).

Apple’s current approach of “look we have the best tablets in the market so use our extremely limited functionality single platform software with them” is so arrogant as to boggle the mind. It’s worse than when they thought the cylinder Mac Pro was a good solution for pros.

It kills me...because they used to own Powerschool which is EVERYWHERE...and guess what that owns now? SCHOOLOGY! Ugh.

 

[jimbobb24]

If next year involves the children being 6 feet apart or masks my kids are doing online homeschool. 9 year olds don’t need the weirdness of wearing a mask to school. Hopefully Apples apps can make it easier for people who elect to continue distance learning.

 

[Christopher Layton]

I built, deployed, and manage an iPad 1:1 program. For us, iPads were attractive because (with a logitech keyboard case) they give touch, type, and pencil input options with one device.
I would have liked to stay in Apple’s ecosystem if possible, to keep things simple. But Schoolwork just wasn’t up to the task. And these updates are too little, too late.
Interestingly, we found O365 to be the only iPad software that allowed seamless keyboard and pencil input while allowing for student to student collaboration and while offering the ability to administer devices and data. And now, of course, the video conferencing capabilities in Teams put FaceTime to shame.
Apple has a long way to go if they want to be taken seriously on the software side of education.

 

[/V\acpower]

My kids are two such students. Yes they can do a lot of different stuff, but the software implementation is disorganized and poorly thought out IMO, and there are tons of UI annoyances. I was describing them to a web designer friend and he said in several areas it would fail accepted UI design guidelines. To put it another way, we are continually fighting with the software. It does work, but it ain't pleasant.

BTW, on an iPad, without a keyboard, I find Google Classroom and Google Docs almost unusable. For this reason, I immediately purchased two keyboards for their two iPad Air 2s. Luckily I found two name brand keyboards for uber cheap with immediate availability. I ended up buying iPad Air 1 keyboards and modded them to fit the iPad Air 2. That seems stupid, but they were the only name brand ones shipping immediately that didn't cost an arm and a leg. (Name brand ones that were maybe only $30 more were available, but weren't shipping for a month.)

That said, I suspect if I were an educator making purchasing decisions, I'd probably like Apple's solution even less. Apple's solution is not even cross-platform, and from what I understand it requires too much work (and money) on the IT management side.

As a teacher who is exploring my software/platform option for remote teaching this fall, I have to say I'm happy to read I'm not the only one who got incredibly confused trying to do anything in Google Classroom. I used one account as a teacher and another one as a "test student", trying to do simple tasks like create an assignment as teacher, fill it up as student, and then grade it as the teacher again, and wow, it was so confusing.

This semester in a hurry I ended up using Microsoft Forms for that and while there are some things I don't like, at least it was very clear from the get go what I could do and not do with that.

Also, talking about Apple, while I was looking (in a hurry) for a way to teach my classes online, I experimented with Keynote Live, and honestly if Apple gave it some very basic functionality, it could be an awesome platform do make a remote presentation.

Students can open a link to open the presentation in a web browser, it load the keynote presentation on their device, then it simply move forward the presentation for them as you do as the presenter. The wonderful aspect of this is that students get full resolution presentations, fluid animations and apart from the download at the start, after it's almost no bandwidth at all. Way better than desktop sharing in Zoom where the presentation is going through heavy compression and rely on having constant and reliable bandwidth.

If Apple updated Keynote Live with basic features like : voice broadcasting, simultaneous recording of your voice (the function exist in Keynote while you are not presenting in Live) so you can share the presentation afterward, having a chatroom with basic moderation functionality, then it would be a terrific remote teaching application.

Sadly my hopes are not very high that Apple will add those features to Keynote. At least, they could make it so when you do a Keynote Live presentation that the app doesn't go into fullscreen automatically. Right now you could use it combined with other communication tools like Discorb to have a very low bandwidth remote presentation, but since the Mac App goes into fullscreen you can't multitask at the same time. (You can present in a window if you use iCloud.com Keynote Web App however).

Anyway, just sharing.

 

[960design]

I have taught using digital textbooks. They aren’t free.

$19 / year was my recommendation. So not free is correct. Apple is a Trillion dollar company. Recent PhD grads would love writing a book for Apple and getting paid 70% of $19 / year for life times 5 million students ( average per grade in US ). Trillion dollar companies can give back a little to encourage tech buy in.
[automerge]1590100105[/automerge]

If Apple wants the education market, it needs software that is Multiplatform... That's why Google has succeeded imho.

I've been writing PWAs ( progressive web apps ) for the last five years. This tech should solve the 'multi platform' issues; it has for me. I can write a PWA ( which is only slightly fancy HTML5/CSS/JS ) that you can use on the web, download (using chrome right now ) to any computer as a stand alone application, download to any mobile as a full application.

For a great example:
Head to https://app.starbucks.com/ using chrome browser.
Notice the little (+) next to the favorites star? Yep, you can download it as an application.
Same on mobile, except here you save to desktop. Looks and acts exactly like an app.

Of course some things that are still off limits and done better with native software. But for education software the current limitations should have very low impact.

 

[960design]

...but the question shouldn’t be that... it’s are you doing something better or new you couldn’t have done before? That’s when technology integration for education has some strong pedagogical benefits.

Verbatim thoughts from many very intelligent people ( good reading or writing on you ). You are absolutely correct, but baby steps first. There are many steps between "tech in hands" -> "teacher facilitators". We must start somewhere.

Otherwise you’re just reinventing the same old way of doing things with a pretty device.

I absolutely agree. Never buy something only because it's shiny. Have a goal and get started in that direction as soon as possible. The "old way" does not cut it anymore.

 

[coachingguy]

The district I teach in went back to Apple for iPads/MBA's after more than a decade of PC's, and one of the key drivers was/is longevity... The tagline "They just work" seems to be true. After a decade of PC's both laptops and desktops that had on avg 15-20% down for one reason or another - Software or Hardware, and sometimes viruses... We're down to 2-4% total of iPads and MBA's down... nearly all are hardware issues due to... rough treatment or having been dropped or left on the top of a car... And this is with significantly more devices district-wide...

Obviously, your experiences may differ... A district not far from mine did Chromebooks for 3 years and are now moving to iPads... Of course, it didn't help that they brought the cheapest chromebooks they could... Keyboard failure was rampant... which left a very negative taste with the community when it came time to "refresh".

I've got a Chromebook at home as well as a Surface Pro, and the Acer Chromebook I got is "ruggadized" and has held up beautifully for 3 years... Been dropped, spilled on, stepped on by cats n' dogs etc... So, the right tool for the job.

Our district is also a "Google School" and we use the apps and all of our emails, staff and students are run through Google. As the Google apps for iPad become more like the desktop versions, our students are complaining less... 😂 and able to do more on their devices...

Coachingguy

 

[MMSZN]

Yep schools deserve better than chromebooks to be fair.

 

[EugW]

The district I teach in went back to Apple for iPads/MBA's after more than a decade of PC's, and one of the key drivers was/is longevity... The tagline "They just work" seems to be true. After a decade of PC's both laptops and desktops that had on avg 15-20% down for one reason or another - Software or Hardware, and sometimes viruses... We're down to 2-4% total of iPads and MBA's down... nearly all are hardware issues due to... rough treatment or having been dropped or left on the top of a car... And this is with significantly more devices district-wide...

Obviously, your experiences may differ... A district not far from mine did Chromebooks for 3 years and are now moving to iPads... Of course, it didn't help that they brought the cheapest chromebooks they could... Keyboard failure was rampant... which left a very negative taste with the community when it came time to "refresh".

I've got a Chromebook at home as well as a Surface Pro, and the Acer Chromebook I got is "ruggadized" and has held up beautifully for 3 years... Been dropped, spilled on, stepped on by cats n' dogs etc... So, the right tool for the job.

Our district is also a "Google School" and we use the apps and all of our emails, staff and students are run through Google. As the Google apps for iPad become more like the desktop versions, our students are complaining less... 😂 and able to do more on their devices...

Coachingguy

What hardware are your students using with the iPads, or are they just using the iPads alone? Cuz I found iPads alone with Google apps pretty much unusable.

OK, I exaggerate as truthfully they can be used alone, but the UI of these apps are a major, major exercise in frustration on iPads. In fact, up until this year I didn't see the point of getting my kids keyboards, but then Covid hit and they were forced to use Google Classroom, Google Docs, Google Slides, etc., and after just days of this we ordered keyboards for their iPads.

 

[SpiritSoul1008]

What are the options for parents who are homeschooling? Do these Apple apps require some expensive contract from a school district, and a designated administrator to implement. I would love to use both the teacher and student software for my children in assigning homework and passing out resources and assignments from my Mac to their iPads. Is that possible?

 

[DJLC]

Former K-12 CTO here... Schoolwork was DOA in my opinion, and Classroom is only cool because it brings ARD functionality to iPadOS. Outside of that, it's duplicative of an LMS that most schools are already paying for. I couldn't justify supporting and training YET ANOTHER platform just because Apple wants to play EdTech company.

Other posters here have it spot-on: Apple devices are not cost effective for 1:1 student deployments. Last time I got new devices for my kids, I talked to our Apple Edu rep and all but BEGGED him: help me help you win this bid. Couldn't do it. We went Chromebook for the kids and MacBook Air for the staff. For less than the cost of naked iPads with no cases, no warranty, and no management, I got Chromebooks with a 3-year accidental damage warranty, 6 years of management, and white glove service so they were already labeled, inventoried, and enrolled when they arrived. I handed them out to kids new-in-box. Yes, kids can make more multimedia on an iPad than a Chromebook, but here's the thing: they weren't doing that when they had MacBooks; they weren't doing it when I switched them to iPads; so how can I justify the premium for an Apple device when none of the benefits are actually benefits? How about instead I get them Chromebooks and have a mobile lab of 5 MacBook Pros for the occasional multimedia projects? Way more cost effective, and even the Apple Edu rep couldn't argue that point.

 

[960design]

What hardware are your students using with the iPads, or are they just using the iPads alone? Cuz I found iPads alone with Google apps pretty much unusable.

OK, I exaggerate as truthfully they can be used alone, but the UI of these apps are a major, major exercise in frustration on iPads. In fact, up until this year I didn't see the point of getting my kids keyboards, but then Covid hit and they were forced to use Google Classroom, Google Docs, Google Slides, etc., and after just days of this we ordered keyboards for their iPads.

Google has some very smart software developers ( some of the best in the industry ). It would seem they intentionally handicap iPads with their software. Many of the 'gotchas' are written outside of current standard practices.
[automerge]1590154261[/automerge]

Former K-12 CTO here... Schoolwork was DOA in my opinion, and Classroom is only cool because it brings ARD functionality to iPadOS. Outside of that, it's duplicative of an LMS that most schools are already paying for. I couldn't justify supporting and training YET ANOTHER platform just because Apple wants to play EdTech company.

Other posters here have it spot-on: Apple devices are not cost effective for 1:1 student deployments. Last time I got new devices for my kids, I talked to our Apple Edu rep and all but BEGGED him: help me help you win this bid. Couldn't do it. We went Chromebook for the kids and MacBook Air for the staff. For less than the cost of naked iPads with no cases, no warranty, and no management, I got Chromebooks with a 3-year accidental damage warranty, 6 years of management, and white glove service so they were already labeled, inventoried, and enrolled when they arrived. I handed them out to kids new-in-box. Yes, kids can make more multimedia on an iPad than a Chromebook, but here's the thing: they weren't doing that when they had MacBooks; they weren't doing it when I switched them to iPads; so how can I justify the premium for an Apple device when none of the benefits are actually benefits? How about instead I get them Chromebooks and have a mobile lab of 5 MacBook Pros for the occasional multimedia projects? Way more cost effective, and even the Apple Edu rep couldn't argue that point.

May I ask which Chromebook you went with? We find them typically in the $250 - $350 range.

There are many advanced MDMs available for iPads that are free.
$294 ( ten pack iPad10.2 ) after three years can be sold to a reseller (Diamond Assets for example) for $100+ each. Next group of iPads now in the $150 range for 3 years. How much is a chomebook worth after three years.
How would that compare to the six year total cost of ownership you mentioned.

My math is $294 + $150 + $42 ( two MilSpec Drop cases @ $21 each) = $486 six year total cost with two new iPads at three years each. MDM cost = zero. You may even do better with four year replacement place on iPads; cost spread over eight years?

 

[DJLC]

May I ask which Chromebook you went with? We find them typically in the $250 - $350 range.

Admittedly the model we chose turned out to be horrible — the CTL J41. But I stand by my math — if I had it to do again, I'd still buy Chromebooks. Just not THOSE Chromebooks.

The Chromebooks were around $275 a pop with the accidental damage protection, management, and white glove — an all inclusive price. In comparison, the iPads were going to run around $275 a pop PLUS a $20 case PLUS a ~$30 / device / year accidental damage insurance policy PLUS ~$3 / device / year for our MDM (Mosyle Manager — which has a free tier, but we needed the paid tier).

So a 6-year cost on that iPad would be approximately $493. Compared to $275 for the Chromebook. 45% savings.

 

[EugW]

Admittedly the model we chose turned out to be horrible — the CTL J41. But I stand by my math — if I had it to do again, I'd still buy Chromebooks. Just not THOSE Chromebooks.

The Chromebooks were around $275 a pop with the accidental damage protection, management, and white glove — an all inclusive price. In comparison, the iPads were going to run around $275 a pop PLUS a $20 case PLUS a ~$30 / device / year accidental damage insurance policy PLUS ~$3 / device / year for our MDM (Mosyle Manager — which has a free tier, but we needed the paid tier).

So a 6-year cost on that iPad would be approximately $493. Compared to $275 for the Chromebook. 45% savings.

I'm curious, what specs for that model Chromebook? If I'm not mistaken, the internals vary. However, the issue for you was the keyboard so that may be moot.

BTW, how bad was the screen? Typically, the iPads have way, way, way better screens, but obviously that's not a main consideration for a school, as long as it works. However, it's one of the reason I dislike cheap Chromebooks. All of the cheap ones I've seen have bad screens.

How much more would the Chromebooks have been if you got a better one? $399 per unit?

Why are the iPad cases so much? $20 in bulk seems expensive.

 

[baconCodingClub]

It is a shame they have lost the education market. Devices are too expensive in most cases. They had the market and then really lost the plot.

100%

i live in a medium sized district, and we have 30,000 kids. A $5 per unit price diff turns into a principals annual salary. A $100/unit difference is a new building.

Apple talks a mean game about accessibility, but this is an economic accessibility issue. And from a purely Wall Street perspective, its an investment in new consumers in 10 years. Just a horrible mistake all the way around.

and not saying that as a fanboy. Saying that as a parent and coding instructor. We are putting the cheapest junk we can in front of our kids. Coding Scratch on a $199 chromebook is playing a game of “guess what color that code block is supposed to be.” And Google is laser-focused on convincing teachers and administrators that their system is the easiest to administer, and they’re right, but the kids are stuck with horrible interfaces for their work. They are measuring “engagement” in terms of “minutes staring at the screen” even if most of it is struggling with the UI and not processing the material.
[automerge]1590158153[/automerge]

It’s a shame because what kids are doing on chrome books is pathetic. It’s essentially the same word processing that was happening on Apple IIs in the 90s rather than the creative work you can do on an iPad or full featured computer

Google and Microsoft have hundreds of evangelists spreading the word that their platforms are the easiest for teachers and administrators. This is both correct and good strategy. Go to twitter and look up #edutech or online learning strategies and you’ll see them right away.

But similar to your point, I’m guessing that in K-5, 75% of a kid’s work is fidgeting with the Slides interface and 25% is absorbing and demonstrating an understanding of the content. And yet 100% of this time is considered “increased student engagement.”

 

[iShater]

I remember when Apple used to push iBooks and even the iPad to the edu market. My kids are using Chromebooks now at school.

 

[DJLC]

I'm curious, what specs for that model Chromebook? If I'm not mistaken, the internals vary. However, the issue for you was the keyboard so that may be moot.

BTW, how bad was the screen? Typically, the iPads have way, way, way better screens, but obviously that's not a main consideration for a school, as long as it works. However, it's one of the reason I dislike cheap Chromebooks. All of the cheap ones I've seen have bad screens.

How much more would the Chromebooks have been if you got a better one? $399 per unit?

Why are the iPad cases so much? $20 in bulk seems expensive.

I don't recall the exact specs, but I know they were 4GB RAM and 32GB storage. Screens were 11" — definitely not great. The iPads do have better build quality overall; I won't argue that. We probably could've gotten a better Chromebook for closer to $300-$350; still a significant savings over iPads when you take into account all the hidden costs.

And $20 is actually cheap for a case — our actual cost for cases was $50 a pop; I was just being generous here by marking them down in my theoretical math. A large district may have more purchasing power, but I was at a smaller charter school. We were only buying 350 devices at the time, and that gave me little room for bulk negotiations.

I remember when Apple used to push iBooks and even the iPad to the edu market. My kids are using Chromebooks now at school.

Ha. iBooks. Another DOA service in the education market. An iBooks license can only be assigned one time. A paperback can be assigned multiple times. If you do the math on a class set of novels — even if only 50% of the paperbacks make it to year two, you'll still save money buying real books over iBooks.


Like I told our Apple Edu rep: I wanted them to win this thing. I really did. But they just can't unless they get the device cost down a little more and revamp an AppleCare+ for Education product that's not a total waste of money. And stop wasting time on iBooks, Schoolwork, and iWork collaboration. Schools already have products for those 3 things and they're going to have them regardless of Apple — paperbacks, real LMSs, and Google Drive / Office 365. Apple isn't going to unseat those. If they focused more on adding value to the education market instead of noise, they might get somewhere.

 

[Christopher Layton]

<deleted post>

 

[ipedro]

Apple won’t admit the bottom line for schools is price. It’s a shame because what kids are doing on chrome books is pathetic. It’s essentially the same word processing that was happening on Apple IIs in the 90s rather than the creative work you can do on an iPad or full featured computer. Districts don’t care though...at least no one on top making the decisions. Apple has got to do more to highlight the creative and learning potential of their products and how poor the alternatives are. Most people don’t know any better and simply see x number of devices needed and the cost per device.

That’s it right there. Apple already knows this and it’s like they forgot. The eMac was a popular school computer because school boards could afford it. A school iPad doesn’t have to be shiny aluminum and laminated display with skinny bezels.

Make an iPad as the equivalent of the iPhone 5C in an injection moulded plastic case with a lower class A-chip, basic camera and an iPad mini screen.

Get the price down to what it would cost to buy a Chromebook and then let the differentiator be iOS to close the deal.

 

[enc0re]

Hardware and low prices aren’t nearly enough to compete in education. This is about systems, integration, compliance, and support. Chromebooks take very few personhours to administer. That’s the advantage.

Try ordering 1,000 iPads from Apple that are preconfigured for your school’s LMS, single sign-on, network, and applications. Try handing your students and teachers a new-in-box iPad from a stack, giving them credentials, and they are ready to rock.

 

[960design]

Try ordering 1,000 iPads from Apple that are preconfigured for your school’s LMS, single sign-on, network, and applications. Try handing your students and teachers a new-in-box iPad from a stack, giving them credentials, and they are ready to rock.

Is it really that difficult?
Here's my thought process:

1. Order 1000 iPads that are DEP attached to your organization ( business or school ) = 10 minutes
   1. DEP attaches to MDM for all preconfigured restrictions
2. Create 1000 managed AppleIDs via Apple Business Manager or Apple School Manager = 10 minutes
3. Print out 8 managed AppleIDs per sheet via ABM / ASM = 125 pages ~ 3 minutes
4. Network uses captive portal for login / roles just like any other large organization with 1000s of users ( banks, starbucks, mcdonalds, libraries, ect ). Time = none if already complete otherwise get to cracking the whip to get your network team in the 2000s.
5. Ready to hand out iPads NIB, with little square sheet of paper with Apple Managed ID and protective case.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Apple won’t admit the bottom line for schools is price.

Everyone knows the bottom line is price. And Google will always have the lowest prices because they practically give a solution away in exchange for the data they obtain from students. Following them through school and tracking their interests is extremely valuable for an advertiser.

I’m always confused on why there’s this thought that Apple NEEDS to be in education.